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The Riga Peace Treaty


Harry
19 Mar 2015 #31
What exactly am I supposed to be replying to, goofy? There is not a word about the woman's nationality in the news article you link to. se.pl/wydarzenia/kraj/rosja-oburzona-pomnikiem-radzieckiego-zolnierza-gwalcacego-ciezarna-kobiete_360348.html

Still waiting goofy. I've read that article and I do not see where it says the woman is Polish. Please point that text out. If you have difficulties understanding Polish, I'm sure Jon would happily translate that article into English for you.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #32
why should a Polish news site declare openly that it was a Polish woman ;)?
Furthermore no source have claimed that she was German, at least not in the mainstream apart from that fringe English-only site that you quoted.
Do BBC have to say that an English person did something in England??? If it would be a foreigner That would be said otherwise it is obviously an English person, same applies in this situation.. if it would be a German woman it would specified.. but it wasn't.
Haylel
19 Mar 2015 #33
There is not a word about the woman's nationality in the news article you link to.

The sculpture isn't about a German woman or a Polish woman. The artist himself never said anything about nationality. It's about a historical fact that Red Army soldiers were mass raping women when they came to "liberate" Poland and other countries. Moreover, for Soviets Polish women from Western Poland were Germans. And for many of us this sculpture is about a Polish woman. Why? Because in Poland we care about Polish women first, we care about what soldiers did to our people. Of course, German women had it worse but here's Poland, not Germany. User Goofy is a native Pole, if he tells you that it is about Polish women, he's right because he simply knows our history. And the rapes on Polish women were very rarely discussed.
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #34
I've read that article and I do not see where it says the woman is Polish

Indeed - it isn't an issue of nationality at all. In any case, if someone tried to make it such they'd be inviting in the issue that not only were the victims of more than one nationality, including Poles, but so were the soldiers who were raping them.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #35
so were the soldiers who were raping them.

which other nationality than Russian were the rapists.. cough cough Red Armists from then??? Chinese? American? maybe be Martians ;)
Harry
19 Mar 2015 #36
Furthermore no source have claimed that she was German, at least not in the mainstream

You wish to claim that The Economist is not a mainstream source? ROFL!!! The Economist very clearly states "a pregnant German woman".
You can certainly state that the Daily Mail is not the best of sources, but to claim that it is not a mainstream source is absolutely laughable. And the Daily Mail clearly states "statue marking the rape of millions of German women".

if it would be a German woman it would specified.. but it wasnt.

Is there something wrong with your English reading skills? The Economist and the Daily Mail both very clearly specify it was a German woman.
The only news source linked to here which has nothing to say about her nationality is the one you linked to in support of your claim that the woman is supposed to be Polish, which does raise certain questions about reading skills in Polish.

Red Armists from then??? Chinese? American? maybe be Martians ;)

You think that all the troops on the eastern front were Red Army troops?
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #37
You think that all the troops on the eastern front were Red Army troops?

I think that the staggering majority were yes

ROFL Dailymail :)
But the Economist is something more reliable I will give you that.. however! it is a very complex topic, if you would read up on the topic a bit more you would find that there two different narratives on the topic of the War as a whole, one is the Polish one, one that you so fervently refuting all the time, the secon one is the German one, which tries to shift the blame for the Hooocaust on the Poles, for an example by reminding constatnly of the petty laws in the Pre-War Polish Republic, or by shifting the victimhood from the Polish to the German people.

Now.. which country is more powerful in the world? Which country's media are richer? the German ones, who published that obscene in its falsificsations series Generation War, Unsure Mutter, Unsure Vatter, whcih nation has Ms Steinbach accusing Poles of starting the war, bare in mind that this women's party has the backing of the main partys in the Bundestag.

We, the Poles are faced with an ideological war which tries to shift the blame to Poles as well, its target is to rehabilitate Germany.. at least in a small percent by saying "Well every country did it, and look! Ou women were raped after the war as well (and non other)..

How dare you deny publicity to an even that a very little amount of foreigner s know about since people here in the West see the Red Army as the one liberating Poland?

Why should a Pole care for some German woman? We care for our own dead, our own victims and having this monument being built in Poland, on the Polish soil, for a Pole means that it represents the topic of the mass rape of Polish women.
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #38
which other nationality than Russian were the rapists.. cough cough Red Armists from then??? Chinese? American? maybe be Martians ;)

Were there Chinese, Americans or Martians serving with the Soviets in the Battle of Berlin? Can you think of any others,

cough cough

, like Polish divisions...
Haylel
19 Mar 2015 #39
You wish to claim that The Economist is not a mainstream source? ROFL!!! The Economist very clearly states "a pregnant German woman".

So what? English-speaking websites usually wrote "German woman" because they lack historical knowledge about Poland. Artist himself never said anything about nationality of that woman so how the Economist knows that she was a German?

German woman were not the only ones who were raped by Soviets. Making such a sculpture for German women in Poland (!) would be simply stupid. Yeah, Harry, you know it better.

which does raise certain questions about reading skills in Polish.

It's funny to hear such a thing from someone who can't read with understanding even in his own language as you proved to us many times before.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #40
Polish divisions...

We are talking of Soviet rapes of Polish women here, but yeah cheers for reminding us of the 5th column that cam over from Russia, they were indeed the people that then manned such unhonoroubla institutions such MBP, UB.. like the good ol' Zygmunt Bauman
Haylel
19 Mar 2015 #41
Were there Chinese, Americans or Martians serving with the Soviets in the Battle of Berlin? Can you think of any others,cough cough, like Polish divisions...

So? Why should we care about Polish soldiers raping German women (if it happened)? The same Germans who started the war. The same Germans who were killing Polish people.

Germans themselves should care. We care about Polish women here.

Rape is something that happens in every war. We just need to remember it. Poles remember Polish women. Germans remember German women.
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #42
but yeah cheers for reminding us of the 5th column that cam over from Russia

Soldiers who ended up in serving with that part of the Allies rather than any other. Do read up on history goof. BTW, the "5th column2 was a German thing.

good ol' Zygmunt Bauman

Well, he's old and I can assure you personally that he's good, however do you have evidence that he was among the Polish soldiers raping captive women? Be careful here - he has good lawyers.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #43
Well, he's old and I can assure you personally that he's good, however do you have evidence that he was among the Polish soldiers raping captive women? Be careful here - he has good lawyers

hahaha are you threatening me ? :D
Old ziggy's papers dont lie my friend, a short trip to the IPN does not hurt, Iv seen the evidence, it is readily available in the internet, I hope he rots in hell like his old friends from the years of Youth are!

katalog.bip.ipn.gov.pl/showDetails.do?idx=B&katalogId=2&subpageKatalogId=2&pageNo=1&nameId=17376&osobaId=31731

KBW WARSZAWA ZARZĄD POLITYCZNO-WYCHOWAWCZY, WYDZIA£ I, ODDZIA£ WYSZKOLENIA POLITYCZNEGO I PROPAGANDY SZEF

or in English: KBW political BOARD - WARSAW Educational , FACULTY AND DEPARTMENT OF POLITICAL AND TRAINING Propaganda Chief.

Soldiers who ended up in serving with that part of the Allies rather than any other. Do read up on history goof. BTW, the "5th column2 was a German thing.

We are not talking of German women, we are talking here of Polish womenm, stop switching the topic.
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #44
I hope he rots in hell like his old friends from the years

I doubt Professor Bauman is worried what you think, not that it's relevant to this thread. Very nice guy by the way. More relevant is whether you think those Poles who ended up serving in that part of the allied forces behaved substantially differently from their colleagues or whether they did not, thus rendering nationality relevant to the issue.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #45
TW Semjon is a murderer, a coward that tried to destroy all of the evidence.. however truth finally prevailed and is readily available on the internet..

wykop.pl/ramka/1569757/biuletyn-ipn-mjr-zygmunt-bauman-tw-semjon

Soviets were not the allies of Poland, and never were, its funny that the Brit Trio are the only ones spewing so much idiocy on this forum haha, please to any readers, let me assure you that the general British public are more considerate and heartwarming people!!
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #46
Soveits were not the allies of Poland,

The three Allies were the UK, the US and the Soviet Union, with Poland and France being part of the alliance. Poles served in different parts of that alliance including among the Soviet forces. Do read up on history and try not to turn war cemetaries into a political or nationalistic issue - a respect for those who fell in war is a sign of cultural maturity.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #47
cut all tax money that keep the graves of our butchers all nice and visible, let the Russians take care of these beasts.
We have our own dead that we should take care of, for an example the victims of the regime, the anti-communist undeground armies of AK, WiN and NSZ.. luckily these Heroes are being found and finally after so many years the first funerals are starting to take place...

One of many such funerals happening all over the country

One of many such funerals happening all over the country
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #48
cut all tax money

Do you pay tax at your age?

We have our own dead that we should take care of,

We do already - the taxpayer takes great care of war graves and although you seem to want Poland to adopt a tawdry and vindictive attitude to fallen soldiers, it is a general principle that nationality plays no part in this.

Most people are happy with the status quo, however juvenile extremists are nothing new.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #49
Do you pay tax at your age?

my age is none of your concern, I am exempted from it for other reasons though.

I dream of the day when all fo the monuments to "glory of our red brother" be dismatnled and sold for metal weight.

We should work on our history, promoting our values, history and martylogy not some history of our enemies that through many of the people lying on our cemeteries into these holes.

Death or no Death these people should be known for whom they were, murderers of Poles, occupiers and rapists.
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #50
my age is none of your concern, I am exempted from it for other reasons though.

You've posted your age (and photo) and the reason you don't pay tax is because as a student you don't earn enough. Plus you live abroad and don't spend enough time in our country.

You may well dream of the day when war cemeteries are destroyed, and no doubt you'd squeal if another country reciprocated that pettiness however it just isn't going to happen. Poland, like other European countries has a great respect for the war dead and those cemetaries remain regardless of the nationality of The Fallen.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #51
yes i have posted my photos ( though in a Polands scarf :) ) on this site once, cause i am not afraid of showing my face ;) unlike you or many others hah my coward friend

Unlike people like you, I dont compare Poland to Nazi germany or the USSR, i think that the reasons that these monuments were raised in Poland are a bit more than just to "remember"
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #52
( though in a Polands scarf :) ) on this site once, cause i am not afraid of showing my face ;)

Two conflicting statements there. BTW I had my photo up here for years.

I dont compare Poland to Nazi germany or the USSR,

A country's a country and The Fallen died regardless of nationality. Very few chose to be part of a war. One reason why Poland and other states preserve war cemeteries with respect.
Harry
19 Mar 2015 #53
No, Jon, he doesn't, and certainly doesn't here in Poland. I, however, pay a fairly hefty amount here and am sure you do too. I'm more than happy to see our money being spent on memorials to those who fought the Nazis, are you too?

Oh, and Haylel, any chance you can go into detail about the Wehrmacht's use of female soldiers? You say they existed, so perhaps you can prove it?
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #54
I'm more than happy to see our money being spent on memorials to those who fought the Nazis, are you too?

Very much so - it's a given. So much so that most people would never question it. All civilised countries preserve war graves and permit memorials from foreign armies who fought on the same side.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #55
the thing is the Poles and reds did nto fight on the same side. where hell have you read that Oo?
Harry
19 Mar 2015 #56
Please show some respect for the more than 70,000 Poles who fought in the battle of Berlin. They had a one in seven chance of being killed in that offensive, meaning they died at a rate about double that of the Soviet forces in the same army front.
TheOther 6 | 3,818
19 Mar 2015 #57
detail about the Wehrmacht's use of female soldiers

There were female members called "Wehrmachtshelferin", but they didn't see combat on the ground AFAIK.

Quote:
"After 1943, as Allied air attacks on German cities increased, many BDM girls went into paramilitary and military services ("Wehrmachtshelferin"), where they served as Flak Helpers, signals auxiliaries, searchlight operators, and office staff. Unlike male HJs, BDM girls took little part in the actual fighting or operation of weaponry, although some Flak Helferinnen operated anti-aircraft guns."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_German_Girls#Wartime_service
jon357 63 | 15,110
19 Mar 2015 #58
the thing is the Poles and reds did nto fight on the same side. where hell have you read that Oo?

So you've never heard of the Polish divisions who served with the Soviet Army during the Battle of Berlin and elsewhere. Have you never heard of the Armia Ludowa?

Show some respect for The Fallen. Do you p1ss on war memorials too?
Harry
19 Mar 2015 #59
There were female members called "Wehrmachtshelferin", but they didn't see combat on the ground AFAIK.

Yes, I know about them. I just saw this:

Why should we care about Polish soldiers raping German women (if it happened)? The same Germans who started the war. The same Germans who were killing Polish people.

and wanted to know about the German women who were later raped and had before that started the war and been killing Polish people.
goofy_the_dog
19 Mar 2015 #60
I **** (not literally ofc, though i wish could) on certain war memorials, for an example on the memorials of Glorious red Army, or the pomnik 4rech spiacych.

Armia Ludowa.. you mean the puppet red army that had the russians controlling everyhting, where they sleptm, who they fought etc?
The Polish army together with e Polish government were based in London.. you should know that by now


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