The Riga Peace Treaty

Russia admits responsibility for theKatyn tragedy, and despite all the modern political controversy highlights this year large funds to support the Katyn memorial in good condition, the Polish attitude towards prisoners of war graves at least extremely depressing. They are still considered something of Mordor Orcs, who came to seize and destroy the holy Polish soil only from innate ferocity - and their graves are in an appropriate form. At the same time fundamentally ignores the fact that the soldiers of the Red Army never would have been at the gates of Warsaw, did not come before the Polish lancers in Minsk and Kiev!

Minsk and Kyiv were part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth whose borders Piłsduski had hoped to restore in the form of a Lithuanian Confederation. Had he succeeded, there may never have been a Soviet Union with its Stalins, Gulags, Katyńs and other "progressive" achievements.

thats the only thing that this forum lacked.. a Russian 5th columnist!
All communist Russian corpses should be shipped back to Russia long time ago, i dont see why should we support the graves of our butchers..

also all of the communist monuments should be destroyed long time ago as well just like it is being done in Ukraine and just it has been done in Czech Republic and Slovakia and East Germany.

How dare you compare Katyn to the graves of the NKVD, and the RedArmists that have "raped, stolen and murdered" their way through Poland??

Learn some history before you make such remarks dude

Why Soviet monuments should be protected - an article from the Guardian


theguardian/world/2014/sep/29/soviet-ussr-monuments-should-be-protected

The Soviet army played a major role in saving this part of Europe from the realisation of Hitler's master plan in the east, which proposed the colonisation, enslavement and eventual extermination of the Slavic population.

For Russians as for any other nation to honor their veterans of wars is to honor not only heroes, but victims. Think of them as of very young people.

There is a 100 word limit when copying and pasting from internet sources.

That must be one of the few Guardian articles that is not rabidly anti Russian. It is ridiculous that any explanation need given as to why it's a bad idea to destroy these monuments.

knuckle dragging iconoclasts don't do reason just ask ISIS as they attempt to destroy the past, today blowing up a museum with Polish visitors in Tunisia.

When Barney and I agree about something, which we clearly do about these monuments, you know there's very little room for an opinion other than the one we share!

Personally I'd say the interesting thing about the treaty of Riga was the way Poland stabbed its Ukrainian allies in the back and sold their country to the Soviets for 30 pieces of silver (ok, actually 30 million roubles in gold, but the principle is the same).

and everything'd "jasne" ;) Guardian may be anti-Russian.. but it still is pro-Soviet .. since it is a leftist newpaper.
Let me remind you of 17.09.39 and the Soviet invasion of Poland and the puppet government that they have created...
Westerners forget the history, Poles live through it.

What is bad in eradicating iconography of the colonial regime?


Incorrect:

Dress it up anyway you want, Vox, Poland did exactly what she'd promised her Ukrainian allies she would not do and accepted 30 million in exchange for doing that.

sources Harry?
Why should we care about Ukraine anyway? We did what was best for us and good! We should follow the British example

That obvious attempt at humour failed miserably.

Desecrating war graves and destroying war monuments is what goofy was suggesting, that is not the same as renaming public places or removing party political symbols. ISIS destroyed Assyrian monuments, the Taliban destroyed the big Buddhas, ISIS in Libya want to destroy Greco-Roman towns. It wouldn't be an attempt to falsify history it would be worse it would be an attempt to basterdise the past.

The de colonial argument always fails at the first economic hurdle.

The sources, goofy, are the text of the 1920 Treaty of Warsaw and the 1921 Treaty of Riga. Enjoy reading them.

Yet again Brits and other foreigner completely failing at grasping the polish mentality and our history. maybe I am bit radical with taking the fallen "comrades" back to Russia.. but that is my opinion, same as taking back the Nazi scuum back to Germany, fine many Poles will disagree with me on this, everyone's entitled to their opinions.. but leaving the monuments??? Hell NO! Destroy them and the send them brick by brick to Russia to remind them of what they have done on my lands.

Instead place monuments like this:

Er, goofy, that monument was commentating German women, not Polish women, hence the name. And Polish authorities did tear it down.

Goofy it's grand to have an opinion don't however confuse it with made up nonsense.

Yes yes Harry, you are showing your complete lack of knowledge of the Polish history :), no the monument described a Polish woman being raped by a Russian "soldat" stop lying for a second pleaseee


se.pl/wydarzenia/kraj/rosja-oburzona-pomnikiem-radzieckiego-zolnierza-gwalcacego-ciezarna-kobiete_360348.html


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_liberation_of_Poland

historia.newsweek.pl/gwalty-armii-czerwonej---boje-sie-tych-diablow--rosjan----,100278,1,1.html

Barney I detect here a slight difference of opinions.

Goofy, it's called "Komm Frau". It was deliberately put up in a town that was 97% German in 1945. It is to German women.

keep lying man, sources dont lie though ;)

They certainly don't, goofy, unlike you, as I will now demonstrate:


thenews/1/9/Artykul/149969,Red-Army-rape-statue-removed-in-Gdansk

I don't see your point at all, digging people up and destroying war memorials is not the same as renaming public places or relocating political symbols, infact most post colonial places leave statues etc in place.

Okay firstofall, thenews.pl I never heard iof that source, its not the mainstream at all, however all of the Polish sources are saying that the monument was raised to the Polish women.. someone is grabbing the wrong end of the stick...




We have destroyed all of the Nazi German monuments, them nasty German crows etc, we should also destroy the Communist symbol as tehya re not part of our culture but of the Russian one, they remind us of our enslavement and therefore should destroyed.. also writings on such monuments are deeply false and often propagate Russian Communist propaganda. such as that the Russians have "liberated us" etc... no that has to go on the bin of history just like Lenins and Stalins monuments were trhown away.

PolskieRadio is not mainstream at all?! You've really out-done yourself there, goofy, claiming that Poland's state-owned radio isn't mainstream!

the news.pl is not, Polskie Radio is, however I dont believe that the news presented on thenews.pl is the same as on the Polskie RAdio since thenews.pl is untrue, have you seen my sources, have you seen the TVN footage???

Id rather believe TVN and other major Polish sttaions than some dodgy site which is written by God knows who for foreigners only.

thenews.pl/1/64/Artykul/23557,About-Us

Have you seen my TVN, se.pl, and newsweek sources.. no? still keeping to your crappy 3rd party for foreigners only source?

I very rarely agree with you Barney, however I do here. War graves and memorials in particular should be respected. Most of the soldiers were conscripts who had little or no choice than be there.


Not unknown in Poland. Have you been to Tarnowo near Poznan where they tore up the gravestones in the German cemetery and rebuilt the facade of the church in a more Polish style that it had never previously known? Plus of course the renaming of towns to try and erase their history.

OK, goofy, it's understandable you don't know the parts of Polskie Radio, it's not as if radios in your country can be tuned to it. But perhaps you've heard on The Economist magazine?


economist/blogs/easternapproaches/2013/10/poland-and-russia

Or the Daily Mail?

Still haven't relied in my relaton to my sources Harry, you should refresh your knowledge of reading I think ;)