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Polish relation about Russians, Ukrainians?


Wulkan - | 3,243
28 Oct 2012 #31
it's not about understanding, it's about the sounds. Compare how the word "roof" sounds in Slovak and Czech and you will see that Czech's "roof" sounds more Polish.
legend 3 | 664
28 Oct 2012 #32
People are comparing Slavic languages...
As a Polish speaker I find Russian one of the hardest to understand from all Slavic languages. There are many similarities and I can pick of words/sets of words but 100 understanding is much tougher. Czech, Serbian and even Ukrainian are easier to understand than Russian to me.

Incarnation of Crow :D

Back when Crow was here I actually agreed with him on several things in the discussions. He liked Slavs as do I.
Lenka 3 | 2,876
28 Oct 2012 #33
To like something and to be obsessed by sth are two different things.I liked his idea that Slavic countries should help each other but most of the time I thought he was living in alternative world
OP Vlad123 7 | 204
28 Oct 2012 #34
Vlad pls don't say that we were saved by Soviet Union in WWII.We were stabbed in the back is more like it.

What would happen to Poles if USSR would loose WWII to Hitler and Poland would be under Nazies rule?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
28 Oct 2012 #35
Nothing, because America would drop a couple of bombs on Berlin and all would be over.

No-one in their right mind can credit the Soviet Union with anything towards Poland in WW2, except perhaps ensuring parliamentary stability after the war.
Lenka 3 | 2,876
28 Oct 2012 #36
What would happen to Poles if USSR would loose WWII to Hitler and Poland would be under Nazies rule?

We were!As well as under Russians.We can concentrate on the second part of the WWII but don't forget it started in 1939.What would happen if USSR helped Poland instead of invading?
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
28 Oct 2012 #37
Well said Lenka

@ Delph

The Russians offered parliamentary stability? Yeah if you call having their guys in parliament 'parliamentary stability.'
OP Vlad123 7 | 204
28 Oct 2012 #38
Czech, Serbian and even Ukrainian are easier to understand than Russian to me.

Well, at least if Ukrainian is easier to understand for you than Russian than it OK for me.
And I even agree that Ukrainian will follow in intellegibility after Czech,Slovak,Polabin,Sorbian,Koshubian and
even Old Prussian.Because how Old Prussians could be worse than Ukrainains, right?

Nothing, because America would drop a couple of bombs on Berlin and all would be over.

It would be an intersting scenario, of course, but in this case why didn`t they drop a few bombs on Moscow?
Could it be a prove that USSR was better than Nazi Germany even in American eyes?I do not really know...
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
28 Oct 2012 #39
I am actually learning Russian [don't ask]. It has many similarities. Some words are the same but mean something else, like Tak and No. The alphabet is okay once you learn it but the handwriting I am not bothering with for now, it is too difficult to read.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
29 Oct 2012 #40
Are you taking the ****?

Thats not my quote.

Could it be a prove that USSR was better than Nazi Germany even in American eyes?I do not really know...

USSR and Nazi Germany were equally evil, they used different methods to kill, thats all
Ironside 51 | 11,338
29 Oct 2012 #41
Thats not my quote.

I have never quoted you?
1jola 14 | 1,879
29 Oct 2012 #42
No-one in their right mind can credit the Soviet Union with anything towards Poland in WW2, except perhaps ensuring parliamentary stability after the war.

I think I know what you mean. Here is one of many examples of NKVD "ensuring parliamentary stability after the war":
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August%C3%B3w_roundup
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
29 Oct 2012 #43
The Russians offered parliamentary stability? Yeah if you call having their guys in parliament 'parliamentary stability.'

Sure, they offered it. It's about the only thing that can be seen as a positive (if you bear in mind the chaos and unstability that Europe suffered in the 1920's and 1930's with parliamentary stability).

The methods used to achieve it were not quite so positive, however.

It would be an intersting scenario, of course, but in this case why didn`t they drop a few bombs on Moscow?

Because it suited the interests of the USA to have the Soviet Union share the burden of guaranteeing peace.
OP Vlad123 7 | 204
29 Oct 2012 #44
I would be glad to know mind of Poles on the following events:

telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9327483/Euro-2012-183-arrested-after-Polish-and-Russian-clash-as-march-descends-into-violence-on-Russia-Day.html

rt.com/news/polish-radio-hosts-ukrainian-755

Are such cases become typical in Poland?

Few years ago I saw such Polish movies as ``Battle of Warsaw 1920`` (Bitwa Warszawska 1920)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Bitwa_Warszawska
in which `Russian`` soldiers are pictures as a typical ``Untermensch``
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch
(an ugly, brutal creatures with somewhat Asian facial features)
As I`ve understood from this move the largest crime of ``bolsheviks`` was their intention to redistribute the land
from the rich to the poor.Probably in Polish eyes this is a totally unforgivable sin.

and ``With fire and sword`` (Ogniem i mieczem)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogniem_i_mieczem
Which is about Khmelnitski uprising of 1647. I got such impression that Ukrainians (in movie they are reffered
as ``Ruthenians``) are pictured as a lower race and warmongers. They look so evil in the movie that any Polish
atrocities towards them look almost like a ``leagal justice``. One of the Ukrainian cossacks kidnaped Polish woman
and tells to her that if she will not give to him sexual favour he will find fiance will cut skin from him alive(!) and will

through it to her legs! I wonder, what Polish children may think when they see such a scenes?
And what is actually wrong with oppressed peasants who uprised against their lords because of unbearable life
conditions? Well, but even in Hollywood movies main heroes are always uprised slaves and not a slaveowners.
For example there is some good movies about Spartacus (1960) and (2004).
And what is actually ``heroism`` in chopping down with sword a poorly armed peasants or cossacks to the right
and to the left?And this is what main ``herous`` like to do so much?
Is it continuation to ideas of ``pure blooded arian lords`` of 70 years ago or something?
Lenka 3 | 2,876
29 Oct 2012 #45
I would be glad to know mind of Poles on the following events:

First:Some dumb idiots wanted to fight and found excuse to do so.
Second-Maybe Figuski meant it as a joke but it turned out horribly and he should ackowledge it and very sincerly say that he's sorry.

Few years ago I saw such Polish movies as ``Battle of Warsaw 1920`` (Bitwa Warszawska 1920)
in which `Russian`` soldiers are pictures as a typical ``Untermensch``
As I`ve understood from this move the largest crime of ``bolsheviks`` was their intention to redistribute the land
from the rich to the poor.Probably in Polish eyes this is a totally unforgivable sin.

Probably that was the point

and ``With fire and sword`` (Ogniem i mieczem)

It's Sienkiewicz book so in that time ppl probably thoght that they were our enemies.
TheOther 6 | 3,692
29 Oct 2012 #46
Nothing, because America would drop a couple of bombs on Berlin and all would be over.

If Hitler would have subdued the USSR, he would have turned west and either finished the UK or arranged a permanent ceasefire with them. After losing its base close to Germany, the US wouldn't have been able to drop a bomb on Berlin.
Funky Samoan 2 | 181
29 Oct 2012 #47
If the Americans really had needed to, they would have built a long distance airplane that would have been able to fly from Iceland - which was under American control - to Germany and back. They had everything that was necessary to construct such a plane.

It was the Americans that won WWII because they had the atom bomb, as delphiandomine pointed out correctly!
OP Vlad123 7 | 204
29 Oct 2012 #48
It's Sienkiewicz book so in that time ppl probably thoght that they were our enemies.

Yes, but what is a sense to make movies after the novel of Sienkiewicz which is itself no more than
long,boring,racist eyewash of little historical accuracy? And I forgot to mention Ukrainian witch-lesbian
who liked to abuse Polish woman...
Sorry, but Polish cinema and entire modern culture makes me sad.No talk of new hero who would lead
humanity or at least Slavic nations to new horizons. No talk of Poles and Ukrainians who would fruitfully
cooperate on some advanced task.For example space colonization in the future.
Only some remebering old grievances and inventing a new ones.
Lenka 3 | 2,876
29 Oct 2012 #49
Sorry, but Polish cinema and entire modern culture makes me sad

You have every right to feel sad if you want to.

Yes, but what is a sense to make movies after the novel of Sienkiewicz which is itself no more than
long,boring,racist eyewash of little historical accuracy?

I don't like Sienkiewicz to much but I like this movie (Domagarow,mmmmmmmmm :D).And even if I wouldn't like it-it's a part of Polish culture.

No talk of Poles and Ukrainians who would fruitfully
cooperate on some advanced task.For example space colonization in the future.

Seriously?I would like to see that movie.I would laugh so hard
TheOther 6 | 3,692
29 Oct 2012 #50
they would have built a long distance airplane

Ha ha ha ... like the Spruce Goose? There was no technology available in 1941/45 that would have allowed a fully loaded American war plane to cross the Atlantic and return home safely.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughes_H-4_Hercules

It was the Americans that won WWII

I totally disagree. It was the USSR that won WW2 - with massive financial aid from the USA (in the form of supplies and cash). America won the war against Japan, which also happened to be the end of WW2
wjtk - | 29
29 Oct 2012 #51
One of the Ukrainian cossacks kidnaped Polish woman
and tells to her that if she will not give to him sexual favour he will find fiance will cut skin from him alive(!) and will
through it to her legs! I wonder, what Polish children may think when they see such a scenes?

Fail. That "Polish woman" is Helena Kurcewiczówna described in book as Ukrainian/Ruthenian noble distantly related to Rurik dynasty(extinct by then).
OP Vlad123 7 | 204
29 Oct 2012 #52
But is not she represented in a book as a ``good Catholic`` and Polish-speaking?And is there any mention in the movie that she is not Polish?And didn`t Domogarov/Bogun received only brief characteristics from side of Helena as ``A Terrible guy``?..

Thats naturally, of course, because how Polish woman could fall in love with some Ukrainian/Ruthenian guy?! This animal? Impossible!..
Is there actually any Polish movie in history (at least after 1989) in which any Ukrainian would be represented as a good personality?
Not in movie With fire and sword definitely where Ukrainians are worse than plague and more terrible than fire.
Lenka 3 | 2,876
29 Oct 2012 #53
And didn`t Domogarov/Bogun received only brief characteristics from side of Helena as ``A Terrible guy``?..

In the book she saw how he murdered ppl and that's why she was so against him.Btw many woman preffered Bogun (in the movie) than Skrzetuski
wjtk - | 29
29 Oct 2012 #54
But is not she represented in a book as a ``good Catholic`` and Polish-speaking?

I dont know about her faith and language, if she is described as Ukrainian she speaks their language.

And is there any mention in the movie that she is not Polish?

Jeremi Wiśniowiecki said to Skrzetuski that she is related to Rurik dynasty. Besides movie is movie, its just shorter version of book.

And didn`t Domogarov/Bogun received only brief characteristics from side of Helena as ``A Terrible guy``?..

He did. I bet it is not a hard word from a mouth of a teenage girl promised against her will to a stranger.

Thats naturally, of course, because how Polish woman could fall in love with some Ukrainian/Ruthenian guy?! This animal? Impossible!.

.She was Ukrainian. And stop crying like a little girl and think about it twice. Helena was a noble woman, Bohun despite his fame of a great soldier was a peasant not worthy of a hand of Helena. That was the problem.

Read something about Jan Karol Chodkiewicz, one of the greatest military commanders of Polish-Lithuanian state. His mother was Polish and father was a Ruthenian noble. their marriage wasnt a problem because both were nobleman.

By the way, wasnt it Ukrainian Insurgent Army(UPA) which slaughtered thousands of Ukrainians man and woman in 1943-1945 just because they were married with Poles?

Is there actually any Polish movie in history (at least after 1989) in which any Ukrainian would be represented as a good personality?

With Fire and Sword cossacs are portrayed as brave people. Battleof Warsaw 1920 include Ukrainian soldiers which are Polish allies and enemies of communism.

In modern Polish slang word "Kozak"(cossac") is a complement which people use to describe someone as a brave man.

Not in movie With fire and sword definitely where Ukrainians are worse than plague and more terrible than fire.

Lets face the truth - between 1648-1654 cossacs slaughtered tens of thousands people, most of them were Jews. They were bloddy bastards but not much diffrent from most of people of XVII century.
OP Vlad123 7 | 204
29 Oct 2012 #55
Btw many woman preffered Bogun (in the movie) than Skrzetuski

Unfortunately not all Ukrainian or Russian guys are as rich and famous as Gomogarov
and Polish women who admired Domogarov will jeopardize them (and Ukrainian woman too)
because this movie rasicm is already will be in their subconsciousness.They may admire some
particular actor but not a hero he plays and the hate will extrapolate in entire ethnicity.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259
29 Oct 2012 #56
At the same time around 1.5 million Poles were deported to Siberia where half died in the two winters they were there.

- "Tell me, what happened with Poles?"
- "They frozen to death..."

Actually nobody here (in Russia) had even a slightest idea that Poles were so vulnerable to frost. Russians gave to Poles what Germans fought for - vast living space in the East. But Poles were too weak to make it their home....
Lenka 3 | 2,876
29 Oct 2012 #57
Unfortunately not all Ukrainian or Russian guys are as rich and famous as Gomogarov.

I was raised on this story and I don't have anything against Ukrainians.
OP Vlad123 7 | 204
29 Oct 2012 #58
and father was a Ruthenian noble.

He was one of the most famous Lithuanian magnates of the 16th century. Raised a Calvinist he studied at the universities of Königsberg, Leipzig and Wittenberg, and entered in the service of Emperor Charles V from 1552 to 1555.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Hieronimowicz_Chodkiewicz
A typical Ruthenian guy...

Jeremi Wiśniowiecki said to Skrzetuski that she is related to Rurik dynasty.

How many people in Poland knows who were Ruriks or pays attention to it?
By the way, Rurik is a Scandinavian name.No any proved reference to Ukrainian blood...

Lets face the truth - between 1648-1654 cossacs slaughtered tens of thousands people, most of them were Jews. They were bloddy bastards but not much diffrent from most of people of XVII century.

In any case the vast majority of people who participated in Khmelnitski uprising were just peasants who rioted against their slaveowners because of oppression and hardships. And my sympathies are on side of people who fight for their freedom regardless if they are Ukrainians or Poles.Well if Poles want to make some patriotic movie why not to make it about Kostyushko?At least he promised to give freedom to Polish peasants in difference from bloodthirsty polish landlords.

And both novel and book of Senkevich mostly recognize that uprised Ukrainian killed mostly Polish nobles and not a common servants.

With Fire and Sword cossacs are portrayed as brave people.

On my mind they are pictured as little more than animals.
There is no any Ukrainian personality is recovered, cossacks and Tatars always loose to Polish warriors in tournaments and the only thing cossacks are capable to do well is an excessive drinking.

I was raised on this story and I don't have anything against Ukrainians.

I didn`t imply you do.

Lets face the truth - between 1648-1654 cossacs slaughtered tens of thousands people, most of them were Jews.

This thread is about relation between Slavic people and you are out of thread.
Lenka 3 | 2,876
29 Oct 2012 #59
You insinuated it but I don't mind.I wanted to tell that you may be raised on movies like that and still be friendly to other cultures.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
29 Oct 2012 #60
I would be glad to know mind of Poles on the following events:

Are you taking the ****?

Not in movie With fire and sword definitely where Ukrainians are worse than plague and more terrible than fire.

In the move they presented them in positive light, in the book there are many more atrocities which in turn come from historical records!
It seems to me that you are talking the **** here!


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