What do Poles owe to Russians?

I don't know about massacre in Kielce, so I can't say until I'll check, but it would be stupid to blame all Poles for something what happened in one city.

as of the rest, well I should say something unpleasant about you, but I'll let go, breath, and I'll try to explain like to kid:

after ww2 until 89 government in Poland was actually a puppet government installed by Russian. as addition Poland got a gift from Russians, nice cuddle heartwarming red army stationed i country, as a reminder who rocks.

So if Poles didn't wanted to invade Czechoslovakia they could've gone to red army to complain. And we know what happend when Poles were given freedom to vote their own parliament and government.

So who to blame? Russians. Russians and their puppets - polish communists.
How you can blame Poles for actions of government that was forced on them?
I must say that those marionettes, polish communists, were more than happy to obey orders from their Russian Lords, but hey, they were import from Russia, Poland weren't growing their own communists, and first attempt to plant them in Poland in 1920 failed.

oh, and I know what Poland got from Russia: beautiful and useless heavy industry that bankrupted without demand from Russia.

How did I know you would answer like that?

:):):):):)

You, Am Poles, never change. :):):):):)

OK, doesn`t matter. Forget it. I have no time to deal with you.


Yes, come back when you complete your education. :):):):):)

Besides, you are unregistered.

So it doesn't matter that l have given reasoning why I think It's Russians fault, it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong, the only think that matter is that I'm Pole. Show me that the reasons I gave you are wrong, otherwise you are as stupid as persons that blames everything on Russians because they are Russians.

maybe there is reason for Poles to ehm not like Russians?
and why is this suddenly a problem that I'm not registered? it wasn't a problem when you were thinking that You are controlling this argument, but now you don't know what to say, and suddenly I'm not good enough for You, heh?

Sasha, coming back to your Orthodox Church.

Do you know it was built as a symbol of suppression of Poland by tsarist Russia?
It was demolished in mid-1920s by the Polish authorities less than 15 years after its construction. The negative connotations in Poland associated with Russian imperial policy towards Poland, and belief it was built purposely to hurt Polish national feelings[2], was cited as the major motive by the proponents of the demolition, especially since the church occupied one of Warsaw's main squares. The cathedral shared the fate of many Orthodox churches demolished after Poland regained its independence from Russia

Funny that the Palace is also considered as such a symbol. ):):):)

There were about 5 big Orthodox churches built by Russians for Russians living in Warsaw and pulled down by Poles as unnessesary in 1920s.

E.g.,





Of course, you do realise, if they had been preserved till today, they would be run as Catholic churches.

But a few Russian-built churches survived in Warsaw:

Well... as I'm Russian, I would rather try to advocate the Germans. I suggest that you read "the Coming of 3rd Reich" by R. Evans. As you read the book, it sometimes seems as if there was something supernatural that enthroned Hitler for practically nothing spelled troubles.

Ironically the commies were the only tangible counterbalance for the nazies within the Germany.

I just want to say that most of the time there're certain people to blame, not folks.


It's not bad, ressembles that of Moscow metro... but... it's Soviet. It's just beyond my grasp how pious Poles could exchange godly art to the atheistic one.


It'd been Catholic for about three years when Germans entered the town in 1915. I don't honestly care for I don't make disctinctions between the two branches of Christianity. That's perhaps cause I'm quite cold towards the Church.

All I would say is this. I could excuse Russian past since 1000ad of Poland.
I could excuse them for 1939 invasion (although they could have umm helped us instead). Maybe prevents millions of loses.
But when uprisings were happening I dont like that they waited. It would have been sweet as a joint operation.
And then theres the USSR thing. That sucked too.

In general though I forgive them. Slavic people need to get along not hold old grudges.

sasha:
hitler was legit ruler of Germany. it wasn't legendary Nazi that gave him power, it was simple German folks.
and i understand that there were lots of Germans that were ok, but Hitler was supported by nation.
as for Russians ... to make it short - were they sad or happy when Stalin died?

I actually got interested in that one since I've never read of it before. Funnily enough, the wiki-article in Russian doesn't exist even though the research was done by Russians Petrov and Roginskiy who gave it a name "polskaja operacija". I found their study on "memorial", Russian webpage, dedicated to victims of Soviet terror.

Polish operation:
memo.ru/history/POLAcy/00485ART.htm

Let me translate some of its content.

However 00485 order should have had an altogether different understanding. Despite the fact that it suggested prosecuting not the Poles themselves, but the "Polish spies", it afterall implied that barely the whole Polish population of the USSR were under suspicion, which could hardly comport with the officially proclaimed internationalistic slogans. Besides there were quite a number of Poles among the member of NKVD itself...

...A. Postel (at the time a head officer of UNKVD at Moscow Area): "we (head officers) were told about the arrest of absolutely all Poles, Polish immigrants, ex-POWs, members of PCP, which hadn't just set us wondering but caused many backstage talks... they were brought to a stop as soon as we got a note that the order was approved by Stalin and the Politburo and we needed "to pound the Poles to the utmost".

On 16th May 1938 NKVD ordered to include the national data of the arrestees...
The only reliable, as we* think, figures that we have at this point (unfortunatelly not the complete) are related not to those who were arrested, but to the sentenced ones, again not all of them but those who were sentenced on the "national" basis in September-November, 1938. The figures, we believe, confirm that it would be wrong to confuse "the Poles" and "the Polish operation".**

"Troyki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_troika" have totally sentenced within these two months 105 032 people. Poles 21 258, Germans 17 150, Russians 15 684, Ukrainians - 8773, Belorussians - 5716...

36 768 out of 105 032 were eventually sentenced in the "Polish line". Poles 20 147, Belorussians 5215, Ukrainians 4991, Russians 3235, Jews 1122, Germans 499, Lithuanians 396, Letts 271, Estonians 112, Czechs 87, Gypsies 76, Austrians 59, Bulgarians 53, Hungarians 47, Romanians 29, Greeks 27, Moldavians 26, Tatars 23, "others" 362 ***

*Petrov and Roginsky
** the idea of calling the terror "Polish operation" belongs to N. Petrov
*** apparently these non-Polish citizens were proven to have unwanted contacts with the Poles living in the USSR. Big amount of Ukrainians and Belorussians sentenced in the Polish line may well be explained by that ~85% (more than half a million) of all Soviet Poles lived in either Ukrainian or Belorussian part of the USSR).

The Russians saved my grandparents so I will forever be grateful.


My great uncle was in the resistance, he was a Jew. there were thousands of Jews fighting In the Armija Kraina and with the Soviet Partizans against the nazis. never heard of the warsaw ghetto rising or the bieslki brothers?

there is one think that You are missing when you are talking about different nationalities living in Poland:
I'm under impression that there was something like being "citizen of Poland", regardless of actual nationality.
there were polish lithuanians, polish ukrainians, polish belorussian ( white- Russian, from Ruś Biała - white Ruś, witch wasn't Russia) , polish Russians ( actualy not Rosjanie(Russian) but Rusini, possibly from Ruś Czerwona - Red Ruś), polish jews, polish silesians etc. they were speaking different languages, but they understod each other (more or less, and Jews had to use polish to be in this equation)

and they were living together, mixing with each other etc.
u was possible because Poles itself weren't etnicly clean - Poland was created by two main "tribes" Lechici i Polanie, with lots of smallest "tribes" in, and this differences were still there in XIX century (but did not lead to problems, rather to tolerance) .

to this day mountainers call some people Lachy ( Lechici) .
and polish mountainers speaks their own language ( similar to polish but not equally) and they do understand slovakian mountainers speaking their language.
so, because they were all mixing up there is possibility of being belorussian and Pole.
for example : mine grandfather survived 1939 because he said to red army that he is belorussian ( and he wasn't sent to Sybiria) but later came back in polish army as a Pole.

all this dividing is articulated. and sad.

When you think that a lot of deeds are done at the intergovernmental level, unsanctioned by the populace at large, then how can you talk of indebtedness? What should my wife owe to that distant Russian housewife in Novosibirk or that farmer in Omsk? If favours are done then favours are done but debt repayment is a contract and many Poles don't have such a thing with many Russians, period!

To answer OP question - turds in large quantities

As a child, I (and my mates) got glued to TV sets by the popular Soviet Russian cartoon series about the bad Wolf and good Hare. Unbeliavably amusing. Each episode started with an opening teaser like James Bond films! Music was great, too.

Watch their adventures in the sports center:



What a pity they made only 12 episodes in 1970s! Well, tanks and nuclear arms were more important then. :(:(:(

Read the whole fascinating story about the series:

Since the 1990s, when the fall of the Iron Curtain allowed better exchange of films, both Russian and Western audiences have noted similarities between Nu, pogodi! and American cartoons, the most noticeable being Tom and Jerry. The director has admitted that he was learning from Disney animated films which were brought into the USSR from Germany immediately after World War II, particularly Bambi. However, he did not see any Tom and Jerry episodes until his son bought a VCR in 1987.[3] Thematically, Nu, pogodi! places greater emphasis on various real-life situations and locations.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu,_pogodi

Poland owes nothing to Russia or Germany, or even less. They both owe so much to Poland, and will never make it up.

Mike

Anatoliy Papanov provided voice to the wolf. They've managed to totally make 16 episodes while he was alive. The 17th and the 18th were made after his death yet with his voice cut from previous scenes.

From Polish wiki


pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolij_Papanow

The Russians were the inspiration for the following song: Hej strzelcy-and the following words

pl.wikisource.org/wiki/Hej_strzelcy_wraz

So I guess the Poles owe them for the inspiration for the song.

If we think the amounts of russian vodka drunk by Poles the latter should be grateful.

Poles don't drink Russian vodka, we have our own vodka.

This is one of my fav patriotic songs but I knew only two first stanzas. The rest you qouted are rather unknown, probably not included in the original version of the song.


Exactly.

As I said before, for average Westerners we are primitive barbarians.

But we are respected by average Russians. At least they have a neutral attitude.

Films on youtube by Russians and Easterners travelling through Poland are so "Polish" that one may think they were made by Poles. However, the music added by Russians is better - more romantic.

Thanks for the nice watch, Pawian!
I have a question. How do you assess Krylov's Polish (third video from the bottom) where he's singing on a 1-10 scale? :)

3.5 for the accent. It`s heaviness makes some Polish words sound too Russian. But 10 for the arrangement and voice and general atmosphere! :):):):)

The Russian governor of Warsaw under partitions in 19 century is still remembered today.
Sokrates Starynkiewicz (1820-1902; Russian: Сократ Иванович Старинкевич) was a Russian general and the 19th President of Warsaw between 1875 and 1892. During his presidency he ordered the construction of municipal water works as well as the tramway and telephone network in Warsaw.

On November 18, 1875, he was appointed the 19th president of Warsaw. Although at first he was considered yet another Russian official assigned to govern a Polish city, he soon became known as a great organiser and engineer. He was also a good economist and during his presidency the city's treasury more than tripled. He became particularly popular with the Varsavians after he started to consult most of his decisions with the press, a thing that was uncommon in 19th century Russia.

Starynkiewicz also introduced modern gas street lighting, built a modern marketplace (Hala Mirowska) and started construction and paving of streets in the city centre. Finally, he ordered two censuses (in 1882 and 1892).



Sewers:

Are there any/many places like squares, streets, bridges etc named after foreigners?

Any foreigners or Russians only?

There is Starynkiewicz Square in Warsaw



and monument, destroyed by Germans during WW2 but reconstructed in 1960s:

Any foreigners, in France and Spain its common to name even railway stations after famous foreigners in my country it’s not common I was just wondering if there was an Einstein street or a James Joyce Bridge for example. People who had little or no contact with Poland but made an impact that was admired by Polish people. I had a search on the net and couldn’t come up with any.

Plenty.


Small but it is there
mapa.targeo.pl/Einsteina-Alberta/Warszawa/ulica


Also
warszawa.mapofpoland.pl/Warszawa,mapa,21,Jamesa+Joyce%27a.html


Come on, just type ulica + name + Warszawa, that`s all.

Come on Warsaw isnt all of Poland:) I just picked Joyce and Einstein at random luck of the draw I guess.

Also there are lots of streets with his name in Poland.
De Gaulle:
also some
Thomas Wilson a few plus park in Poznan.
Roosevelt few streets - I don't understand why, regardless which Roosevelt.
Napoleon Bonaparte - few places named after him including streets.

But Warsaw is the capital which sets an example, right?

I just thought there may have been some places with an unusual or interesting story that foreigners didn’t know about

Will Don Quixote street in Warsaw do?