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What do Poles owe to Russians?


OP pawian  219 | 24556  
24 Jan 2013 /  #151
I just thought there may have been some places with an unusual or interesting story that foreigners didn’t know about

Probably but nothing comes to my mind right now and besides, it is a topic for another thread which you or someone else can start: Interesting/peculiar names of streets in Poland. .
Barney  17 | 1623  
24 Jan 2013 /  #152
Will Don Quixote street in Warsaw do?

Stanisław Moniuszko (May 5, 1819, Ubiel, near Minsk - June 4, 1872, Warsaw, Congress Poland) was a Polish composer, conductor and teacher. His output includes many songs and operas, and his musical style is filled with patriotic folk themes of the peoples of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (predominantly Polish and Belarusian[1]). He is generally referred to as the father of Polish national opera.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Moniuszko

One of his operettas Nowy Don Kichot, czyl Sto szaleństw (The New Don Quixote, or 100 Follies) The street could be named after the operetta and not Cervantes

Edit

t is a topic for another thread which you or someone can startL: Interesting/peculiar names of streets in Poland. .

OK I was thinking that sorry for the hijack
Ironside  50 | 12312  
24 Jan 2013 /  #153
One of his operettas Nowy Don Kichot, czyl Sto szaleństw (The New Don Quixote, or 100 Follies) The street could be named after the operetta and not Cervantes

Well it is still Don Quixote and not new at that, you are hard to please.
What about Winnie-the-Pooh street?

Winnie-the-Pooh street in Poiland
Des Essientes  7 | 1288  
24 Jan 2013 /  #154
Gunter Grass, who is half Kashubian, claims in The Tin Drum that "Pan Kichote" the character from Cervantes, is greatly beloved by the Poles and that his knightly affectation is seen by them as being so very Polish that they consider him one of their own. The street is surely named for the character and not the operetta.

This page is certainly filled with alot of interesting media besides text, but does anyone else have their computer stall when trying to load it? Pawain, you are an interesting addition to this forum, but you post so many youtube videos and photos in some of your threads that the prospective reader may well get angry at the fact that you keep freezing his computer. How and why do you add dozens of photos and videos to a single post here? It looks to me like the limit is four per post, but you have obviously found a way around it.
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
24 Jan 2013 /  #155
Guys, each next fekking post about fekking street names will be fekking reported!!!! So don`t waste your fekking precious fekking time!!!!
:):)

This page is certainly filled with alot of interesting media besides text

Sorry, Des, I don`t have any problems with loading, my connection is sth like 30 Mb (or Gb, I don`t know) per second and I know it is low compared to Western standards, so if yours is even lower, you need to upgrade it. I am really sorry but I can`t help you because that is my style - one word and thousand photos. The day I can`t have my style, I will leave.
Vlad123  7 | 204  
25 Jan 2013 /  #156
The Russians also exterminated Polish elite.
The Russians also took over Poland.

Probably you confuse Russia with USSR or Russian Empire.
Catherine the II who partitioned Poland was German.
Felix Dzerzhinsky was had of Cheka and ethnical Pole.In childhood he
dreamed to become an iezuit priest.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Dzerzhinsky
Nobody mentioned that in 1612 Poles captured and plundered Moscow,
invaded Russia and attempted to convert Russians into slaves.
They caused Times of Troubles.
In 14-th century they invaded Wolynea-Galicea Rus and conquered it.
They destroyed many orthodox churches.
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
25 Jan 2013 /  #157
They caused Times of Troubles.

This is all true.

In 14-th century they invaded Wolynea-Galicea Rus and conquered it. They destroyed many orthodox churches.

I know little about it. Are you sure you are talking about Poles and not Lithuanians???
Vlad123  7 | 204  
25 Jan 2013 /  #158
I know little about it. Are you sure you are talking about Poles and not Lithuanians???

To your knowledge:

During the wars over the succession of Galicia-Volhynia Principality in 1339 King Casimir III of Poland undertook an expedition and conquered Lviv in 1340, burning down the old princely castle.[11] Poland ultimately gained control over Lviv and the adjacent region in 1349. From then on the population was subjected to attempts to both Polonize and Catholicize the population.[18]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv#Halych-Volyn_Principality
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
25 Jan 2013 /  #159
Thanks, but why are you mentioning it at all? Galicia-Volhynia Principality didn`t belong to Russia in 14 century, and this thread is about Poles and Russians! ????
Vlad123  7 | 204  
25 Jan 2013 /  #160
So to what ethnicity did they belong?And where Russians came from?Galicia-Volhynia Principality was remnant of Kievan Rus.
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
25 Jan 2013 /  #161
Russians aren`t the only true inheritors of Kievan Rus. The case of Galicia Volhynia is between Poles and Ukrainians.

But, never mind, anyway. This dispute doesn`t actually belong to this thread. There are a few other already. E.g., your own one: https://polishforums.com/history/relation-russians-ukrainians-62836/

So, let`s not waste our precious time and posts where they don`t belong.
Vlad123  7 | 204  
25 Jan 2013 /  #162
So, let`s not waste our precious time and posts where they don`t belong

I`m agree with you.Personaly I`m more interested in question what do I owe to slaveowners
than what some Slavic nation owes to other.
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
26 Jan 2013 /  #163
Your preference means we have a serious discord of opinion here because to be honest, I am fascinated with the topic of owing! To each his own. God bless you, Slavic brother! :):):)
Zibi  - | 335  
26 Jan 2013 /  #164
They caused Times of Troubles.

This is crap, not history. Try to learn history as it was not for real. Poles did not cause Smuta. In fact they were let into Kremlin by russian boyars who wanted a polish heir to the throne as their next Czar, plus, the freedoms which polish gentry enjoyed and russian gentry did not have.
Vlad123  7 | 204  
26 Jan 2013 /  #165
Poles did not cause Smuta. In fact they were let into Kremlin by russian boyars who wanted a polish heir to the throne as their next Czar

But it was in the very beginning
when only some boyars who supported False Dimitry.But he still was Russian and only promiced allegence to Polish King.
There was no talk that Russia suppose to become colony of Poland.But when majority of Russian cities and regions refused to recognize power of False Dimitry Poles and Lithuanians invaded Russia and destroyed many cities.Nobody in Russia welcomed them to do such a things.War with Poles continued for many years and Poles even tried to kill Russin tzar Michail.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Muscovite_War_(1605%E2%80%931618)
Ironside  50 | 12312  
27 Jan 2013 /  #166
But it was in the very beginning

Or the end? What you call Russian history is just the end product of indigestion of some upsetting individuals and what they fed students for breakfast in the Voroshilov Academy.

They are nutters on par with Dmitry Merkulov.
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
15 Feb 2013 /  #167
Alosha Avdiejev is a Russian who came to Poland in 1967 to study Polish and stayed. He is an academic teacher (of linguistics faculties), actor and singer. I love his Russian/Gypsy/Jewish ballads, sung in Polish but with charming Russian accent. Resident of Krakow, performs with famous Ram Cellar Cabaret.

Alosha Avdiejev in Poland

Television, one of best



Songs from Odessa: Bad Boys



Gypsy song



and many many more....
goofy_the_dog  
17 Feb 2013 /  #168
I personally, have nothing against Russian culture, I like the sounds of balalaikas and love the famous Russian Alexandrov Choir... Oh man when they sing Katyusha, my heart rate rises ;)... I have never ben to Russian but I would llike to visit some places, and just to talk to these people...

However, Russians as a nation should pay Poland some kind of pay back for the years of occupation/ and before that 17th September. The tiniest financial good that they could give us, could be a lowered gas " bill". On Cultural/ Historical side they should finally acknowledge that Russia did commit a genocide, not once and not twice at that. They should finally condemn everything to do with Communism as unlawful... However Russia is controlled by bandits and ex-KGB basterds like Putin or Medvedev, so nothing of that wil come to life.

What do Poles owe to Russians ?
Just remind of this very good movie that I have watched recently:
sovietstory.com

One of the things that we Poles " owe" to Russkis or " zakapiory" is a slight change in our genes...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_liberation_of_Poland

Saying that Russians brouht the first Polish man into Space was such a fantastic achievement is a lie...
I would say:
" Hey you know? Although Russians raped and killed thousands of Polish women, although they've commited genocides ( Katyn, Miednoje etc..) they have brought one Pole to space!" Now all has to be forgotten and forgiven!

As a famous poet once rightly said:

"Jeśli my zapomnimy o nich, niech Bóg zapomni o nas"

In English:
" If we forget about them, may God forget about us"
Adam Mickiewicz of course...

Cheers
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
17 Feb 2013 /  #169
That is interesting. I am trying to find some famous Poles of Russian origin and I can`t.

The opposite direction is much easier - there have been many Russians of Polish origin.

Strange.
Henry R  - | 18  
16 Jun 2013 /  #170
Yeah Typical late commie approach. Definitely, we own them a good kicking and a century or two of occupation.

Apart from kicking, occupation of Russia from below by white hopefully straight Europeans isn't a bad idea at all. Why don't you go to Russia and start multiplying, projecting yourself onto new lands and helping in the demographic crisis Russia's facing? Because others from Central Asia are doing just that. Do you want those lands to be occupied by Muslims from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzia, Chechnya, Turkey...?

Muslims, Jews, and gays are NOT WELCOME!!! Please don't bother and stay where you are!
delphiandomine  86 | 17823  
16 Jun 2013 /  #171
Muslims, Jews, and gays are NOT WELCOME!!! Please don't bother and stay where you are!

Another one who probably has a Jewish grandmother and thinks too much about gay sex, I see.
Wulkan  - | 3136  
16 Jun 2013 /  #172
talking from self experience?
Henry R  - | 18  
16 Jun 2013 /  #173
We owe them a kick in the butt.

Whom do we owe a kick in the butt?
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
18 Jun 2013 /  #174
However, Russians as a nation should pay Poland some kind of pay back for the years of occupation/ and before that 17th September.

In the past, Poles made their country weak on their own wish. No wonder that other countries grabbed the chance and partitioned us. That has been a regular practice throughout centuries, even eras. Weaklings are conquered by the strong ones.

Instead of blaming Russians, direct your historical accusations to the Polish elites of 16/17/18 centuries who contributed to the eventual fall of Poland.

However, Russians as a nation should pay Poland some kind of pay back for the years of occupation/ and before that 17th September.

Don`t you think that Russians might demand the same from Poland for certain Polish guy`s actions in Russia which caused hundred thousands, if not million deaths? Do you know who I am talking about?
David_18  65 | 966  
18 Jun 2013 /  #175
Instead of blaming Russians, direct your historical accusations to the Polish elites of 16/17/18 centuries who contributed to the eventual fall of Poland.

Depends.

The problem was that 1 individual could criple the sejm and it was not untill the 18'th century that powers around The PLC realised it and started to bribe our elite. So it goes both ways.

Don`t you think that Russians might demand the same from Poland for certain Polish guy`s actions in Russia which caused hundred thousands, if not million deaths? Do you know who I am talking about?

Felix Dzerzhinsky? :)
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
18 Jun 2013 /  #176
What you wrote corroborates my view. Thanks.

Felix Dzerzhinsky? :)

Yes! He created Cheka which policed labor camps; ran the Gulag system; conducted requisitions of food; subjected political opponents to torture and summary execution; and put down rebellions and riots by workers or peasants, and mutinies in the desertion-plagued Red Army
Ozi Dan  26 | 566  
19 Jun 2013 /  #177
Instead of blaming Russians, direct your historical accusations to the Polish elites of 16/17/18 centuries who contributed to the eventual fall of Poland.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Any proposition that "Poles" made their country "weak" and that such weakness caused Poland to be conquered is simply wrong. The inherent weakness that Poland is 'guilty' of is failing to reconcile and legislate what was to happen in the event of the Liberum Veto being applied (in limited circumstances), with such application hamstringing the passing of other legislation and/or being used by interests or powers contrary to the Cth's bests interests and/or sovereignty.

The cause of the Cth's downfall was the avarice of her neighbours. Absent the actions of her neighbours and Poland would not have fallen - indeed, at the time of the Partitions, she was remedying the inherent deficiencies in her society and legislature. What you're saying is like saying that the assault victim should blame themselves for being unable to fight off their attacker, and that their inability to fight off the attacker was the cause of their injuries.

Similar notions were used by the Colonial/Imperial powers when conquering other nations or peoples, with the dogma that such conquered people deserved it by virtue of various nebulous justifications such as their purported inability to govern themselves, racial inferiority and so on - these are not reasons or causes, but merely propaganda propounded by the victor so as to try to give some form of legitimacy for their actions.
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
19 Jun 2013 /  #178
Any proposition that "Poles" made their country "weak" and that such weakness caused Poland to be conquered is simply wrong.

Of course it is not wrong.

The cause of the Cth's downfall was the avarice of her neighbours.

Don`t pretend such a naive idealist. :):):) As I said, the "avarice" of neighbours has been a constant element of our civilisation for millenia. Poland lost the struggle for creating a lasting strong important country due to the grave mistakes of her elites.

Absent the actions of her neighbours and Poland would not have fallen -

If the granny had a moustache, she would be your uncle. :):):) Come on, that is utter naivety. I can`t believe you are saying it seriously. You are kidding me now.

What you're saying is like saying that the assault victim should blame themselves for being unable to fight off their attacker, and that their inability to fight off the attacker was the cause of their injuries.

In terms of politics, diplomacy and conflict between countries, that`s what has taken place since the first state was established on this planet. Bigger fish eat smaller fish and you can`t change it.

these are not reasons or causes, but merely propaganda propounded by the victor so as to try to give some form of legitimacy for their actions.

Of course, that goes that way. But, don`t be naive again. Pointing to the injustice the victims of conquest suffered doesn`t help them too much. You just need to do everything not to become a victim, that`s all. Polish elites didn`t predict that Poland could become such a victim one day and when it happened, it was too late for rescue.

Get down on earth.
Ozi Dan  26 | 566  
19 Jun 2013 /  #179
Of course it is not wrong.

Ok, let's hear how it is right then. The floor is yours Pawian...

Don`t pretend such a naive idealist. :):):) As I said, the "avarice" of neighbours has been a constant element of our civilisation for millenia. Poland lost the struggle for creating a lasting strong important country due to the grave mistakes of her elites.

I'm not pretending at all. You never said anything about avarice of neighbours, nor was your proposition that Poland failed to create a strong country by virtue of the actions of the elites - you said words to the effect that Poland shouldn't blame the Russians but blame themselves. This is incorrect.

If the granny had a moustache, she would be your uncle. :):):) Come on, that is utter naivety. I can`t believe you are saying it seriously. You are kidding me now.

Why profess mock indignation? It is true. But for the avarice of her neighbours, Poland would not have fallen. Feel free to argue how Poland's partitions would have happened otherwise - I'm all ears.

Bigger fish eat smaller fish and you can`t change it.

That may be, but your argument was that the smaller fish ought to blame itself for being consumed because it was smaller. This is a nonsense.

Of course, that goes that way. But, don`t be naive again.

No, not naïve at all. Naivety in this context is to put forward an argument that the conqueror's 'justifications' for conquest shouldn't be debated or pointed out because this would in some way be unhelpful to the conquered. And please, don't try any straw man arguments on me Pawian.
OP pawian  219 | 24556  
19 Jun 2013 /  #180
This is incorrect.

Let`s agree to disagree, then. :)
When I find more time, I will return to our discussion but now it is senseless to prolong it any longer. An idealist view clashes with the realist one, it is like fire and water, never able to reach concord.

Never mind. Night! Sweet dreams! :):)

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