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Have Poles blood on their hands? :)


joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
7 Aug 2009 #61
Quite a good book, 'Eye For an Eye'...Yes, Khazar Jews love Bar-B-Q, 'Kosher-style'...Ask the Palestinians...They also like the 'slow roast' method of cooking...Ask the Ukrainians about Holodomor...They also like to 'sneak a little snack'...Ask Poles....They also enjoy 'eat all you can buffet'...Ask Americans.
polishcanuck 7 | 462
7 Aug 2009 #62
Can you provide a link to this rule/law that forbids foreigners from buying land in PL?
Babinich 1 | 455
8 Aug 2009 #63
Babinich is claiming that the Ukrainians betrayed Poland by signing a seperate peace treaty

No I am not.

Er, Poland was on the same side as the Central Powers.

Er, no... Pilsudski was jailed by the Germans because of his opposition to the 'polnische wehrmacht'.
ender 5 | 398
27 Dec 2009 #64
Aj waj Just because 40 Jews has been killed in Jedwabne you making big fus. Did you know IPN has been asked by Jews to stop investigation?
BrutalButcher - | 391
27 Dec 2009 #65
Funny to see a Spaniard, native to one of the most racist countries on the earth, judging the poles for killing other people out of intolerance. Remember the Inquisition? The killings of Jews and Muslims in Spain? The genocide in the Americas ? You spaniards have no right to criticize, Arab inbreds.
ob1 1 | 30
27 Dec 2009 #66
Bratwurst:
There is no such thing as fact. Only what is said by the victors and those with power. I can make up my own facts. Get a bunch of thugs or propaganda to beat it into history. Then it becomes facts/history after a hundred years or so of book buring/etc. This is fact: Cain killed Abel. We are all sons of Cain. Fact: nobody ever owns anything. We are only caretakers of the planet for 3 score and 10. The Earth is dying because of the manner in which the sons of Cain are taking care of it. What's right? What's wrong? The cosmic consciousness tells us this. We don't need any preacher/law to tell us this. You want truth: look to mathematics. Otherwise, you deal with lies/corruption. Stop trying to muddy the waters by saying this one or that one has less blood on his hands! All sons of Cain have blood on their hands. We all have blood lust, which we have to control. If we keep this up we'll go back to cave man thinking where there is no right, but might. Cut the bull. If you live on this planet you have a right to live on it. We should eliminate all property rights, all national borders. We are all citizens of this world. National borders and property ownership are used to control the work force. Want true globalization or just globalization for business?
OP espana 17 | 910
27 Dec 2009 #67
we dont hide or lie about anything and we are proud of what we are .
Wroclaw Boy
27 Dec 2009 #68
Can you provide a link to this rule/law that forbids foreigners from buying land in PL?

nah, i dont really have time but it is true.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
27 Dec 2009 #69
poles like to think that they fight against the Germans but some poles enjoy doing barbecues.

I wonder if those would be the Jews whose descendants survived because they escaped Spanish massacres of Jews, or those who were expelled from Spain?
OP espana 17 | 910
27 Dec 2009 #70
z_darius
again , spain didnt hide or lie about the past.
BrutalButcher - | 391
27 Dec 2009 #71
again , spain didnt hide or lie about the past.

Nor has Germany. THe difference is that Spain is proud of her genocides, racism and persecutions. Germany isn't. Spaniards keep on being intolerant of the same people they treated like sh*t. Germans are not doing that.

It must be because Germans are truly European: Civilized. You are just Arabs.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
27 Dec 2009 #72
espana
Well, BBoy's answer is great. Treat it as mine the next time you mourn those you kicked out of your Jew loving Spain.
ob1 1 | 30
27 Dec 2009 #73
We should be judged as individuals for what we do, under the circumstances we do them. We should not be judged by the actions of the wealthy who control our countries. These wealthy have no nation. No religion. Indeed, they inter-marry for wealth, power and send us to war for them.

Don't get hung up on facts! 10,000 people with machine guns to their head will say and do anything they're told to do, include produce 'facts'. This has been demonstrated throughout history. Need we be taught this lesson each and every generation!

Don't get distracted by what is called 'fact' in the history books. Don't look for truth; you'll never find it.
ender 5 | 398
27 Dec 2009 #74
espana
yes we have blood on our hands
german blood (yummy), ukrainian, russian, turk, spanish, french,austrian, italian probably all europinian nations, some less some more. jew undaubtly. so what? but as a nation we can be blamed for Kielce when pissed polish soldiers (jews has been shooting to them- jew as national security have been allowed to carry guns) throw jews from 1st floor on soldiers bayonets. I hope you know this detail.

and some others details 4 pogroms in Budapest, few other in other polish cities few other in some other 'socialist republic' in eastern europe all at the same time. I wonder how many of them were in western countries same time?
z_darius 14 | 3,968
28 Dec 2009 #75
I just love the way that Poles whine about not being allowed to build houses in foreign countries a hundred years ago

Never heard about it.
Who is whining about it and what foreign lands were those?

In case you're tempted to quote one of the posts above - Poles in Greater Poland aka the Grand Duchy of Posen at the time did not go abroad to buy land or build a house. They had been there for generations and the area was annexed by Prussians. Thus, Poles living there were Prussian subject/citizens. In fact that's the area where the first capital of Poland is located. Comparing the scenario to whine about difficulties land hungry foreigners face in Poland today is far fetched, to say the least. Nobody forces foreigners to come to Poland. Poles in Grand Duchy of Posen were forcibly found themselves under Prussian rule.

today won't let foreigners even buy land unless they get a permit (which at least one of the ministries involved often refuses to issue).

So what's wrong with that?
You apply and wait for the decision. If you don't like the decision but insist owning land in a foreign country you move to one where they let you buy land. What could be simpler?
yehudi 1 | 433
28 Dec 2009 #76
what happened to the confiscated property of Poles after Poalnd regained independance? Were Jews dispossessed and the property went back to the rightful owners? Just how many of those Jewish houses 'stolen' by Poles were stolen FROM the Poles just 20 years earlier?

Couldn't be too many because, as you know, the vast majority of Jews in Poland did not live in the Prussian areas but in the Russian and Austrian areas. Your point about Poles being denied ownership of houses by the Prussians might be true, I have no idea. But to suggest, based on a situation in pre-WW1 Prussia, that Jews in central and eastern poland really didn't lose legitimate property in the holocaust is a ridiculous argument. I wouldn't have expected a comment like that from you.
ob1 1 | 30
28 Dec 2009 #77
Don't let him fool you. Bratwurst Boy is really a Polish prince trying to arouse Polish pride!
vetala - | 382
28 Dec 2009 #78
Ah, I didn't mean Jews from Central and Eastern Poland. And it's not like I suggested that it was the Jews who dispossessed Poles. Rather the opposite, really, if someone buys a house with their own money then obviously it's theirs, nothing evil or sinister about it. I was just poking fun at the guy who uses a proverb that was born out of resentment for a perceived injustice to battle the exactly same kind of injustice.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
28 Dec 2009 #79
My question to the Op is who cares at this point in time?
What can really be done about it?
Is there a deeper issue you're trying to get at?

I don't understand these attempts at blaming people alive and well today for what their ancestors did in the past, to me it's the attempt at reasoning a small child might make.

Some Poles like to blame Germans and Russians for what happened in the past but the fact of the matter is that there isn't a bloody thing anyone can do about the past- similarly dumb as the OP's question.

Trying to make others feel guilty for things they neither participated in nor condoned is a one of the most misdirected attempts people try when they attempt to "come to terms" with the past.

But maybe I've missed something here, I just clicked on the first page.
yehudi 1 | 433
29 Dec 2009 #80
vetala

I was just poking fun at the guy who uses a proverb that was born out of resentment for a percieved injustice to battle the exactly same kind of injustice.

I see. I didn't see the original quote on that website till now. But after reading what he wrote, what's the most horrible thing is not that people moved into his house (let's assume they thought the owners were dead), but that jews returning to their town were murdered by their former neighbors. And it's known that this happened in quite a few places. Is it any wonder that Jews who left Poland after the war are bitter about their former neighbors?
Torq 32 | 2,916
29 Dec 2009 #81
jews returning to their town were murdered by their former neighbors. And it's known that this happened in quite a few places.

As much as it is incomprehensible to me and utterly terrifying, I'm afraid that such
events did, in fact, take place after the war (although they weren't as common as
some biased historians would have us believe).

I'm quite sure that 95% of so called "anti-semitism" in Poland is simply fear
of those who stole Jewish property or even claimed it after the war out of
necessity without any malice or bad will. They fear that the rightful owners
might come back one day and ask for what's theirs.

The right to one's property is a mainstay of western civilization and should
never be undermined or denied to anyone. The rightful owners or their lawful
descendants should get all their property back.

Of course, by that, I mean individual people, who can prove the right to a given
property and not some chutzpah organisations, operated by a bunch of con-men
who have nothing to do with rightful owners of Jewish property in Poland (apart
from, maybe, their nationality).
Sasha 2 | 1,083
29 Dec 2009 #82
"All nations have blood on their hands"

Captain Obvious
Barney 15 | 1,472
29 Dec 2009 #83
I thought this article was excellent.

For here is a deeper truth: this is what human beings are capable of when they find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. (And to be a small town in eastern Poland occupied first by the Soviets, then by the Nazis, then by a Soviet-imposed Polish communist regime, is almost a definition of wrong place, wrong time.) Anyone born in a luckier place and time must say: there, but for the grace of geography, go I.

guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/23/poland-catholicism-nazis-difficult-past
Ironside 49 | 10,661
29 Dec 2009 #84
what do you mean by that ?
vetala - | 382
29 Dec 2009 #85
yehudi
Such incidents did take place and it's very saddening but I don't like the way this subject is usually brought up. People usually make it sound as if postwar murders were a rule, not an exception, carried out by the whole Polish population, not just a handful of degenerates, with the blessing from the rest of the population (maybe even handing out rewards for every Jewish head) and of course limited only to Poland and to Jews.

Barney
I agree. The author of this article is spot-on.
Barney 15 | 1,472
29 Dec 2009 #86
what do you mean by that ?

Read the article.
The author sets out and defeats the commonly held view that Polish people are anti-Semitic by default, he also attempts to explain what many see as a defensive attitude of Polish people with particular reference to Jews.

I chose the quote because the thread asks if there is blood on Polish hands and it agreed with the poster above who quoted "Captain Obvious".
Ironside 49 | 10,661
29 Dec 2009 #87
Well, If that question is exclusively connected to WWII and Jews or is that more general and philosophical question?
If this about WWII and Jews that of course it is nonsensical rubbish.

I think that many if heard about Poland they heard about Catholicism and most likely myths about ardently/fanatically religious Poles.
That seems to be politically motivated as there is general trend to view Catholics as going against progress and liberty and being antisemitic anti- whatever ******** is trendy, now.

So there is also revisionism of history and thats why there such absurd and off mark views as Polish CK and such. Seems that west is no better then Russians and Soviets rewriting history anew to suits political agendas.

And Jedwabne is another myth.
vetala - | 382
29 Dec 2009 #88
And Jedwabne is another myth.

I certainly hope you meant something else by this.
Ironside 49 | 10,661
29 Dec 2009 #89
I mean exactly that its a myth to illustrate alleged Polish guilt, anti-antisemitism and alleged participation in killing Jews.
There wasn't even proper investigation.
Other myth is Kielce and alleged pogrom.
Why is so hard to understand that not everyone is interested in facts but have an agenda.
vetala - | 382
29 Dec 2009 #90
Sigh. No, I don't want to get into THIS kind of argument again so I will just say that I'm absolutely certain that Jedwabne and Kielce did happen and nothing you say can convince me otherwise.


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