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History of European and Poland's anti-semitism


jon357 67 | 16,902
23 Mar 2012 #151
that find increasingly difficult to justify their own existence

This week's sad events in France suggest that day of peace and happiness hasn't arrived yet.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
23 Mar 2012 #152
Ask you self; Why would you need to ask that question and why would a positive answer be 'Anti-Semetic'? If Jews are integrated into a country they surely don't need to do a survey defining themselves as different, and there the question simply wouldn't exist. Jews have another country, Israel and being Jewish identifies them with it. Is there something wrong with this?

A fair observation. The process seems skewed as does the interpretation.

It would be like asking someone if they believed a person tends to identify with their gender and then deciding that's evidence of sexism.
FlaglessPole 4 | 669
23 Mar 2012 #153
This week's sad events in France suggest that day of peace and happiness hasn't arrived yet.

Are you serious? Really? Drawing a parallel between the terrorist shootings in Toulouse, (targeting both Muslim and Jews) and the US based ADL holocaust industry alarmists???

What's next? Yoav Shamir an anti-Semite??
modafinil - | 418
23 Mar 2012 #154
This week's sad events in France suggest that day of peace and happiness hasn't arrived yet.

I think Jon that this hate crime is genuine anti-semitism in its extreme form., and cannot equate to what the recent stat a few posts earlier claims to be anti-semitism, It seems to measure sterotypes held by nationality only. If all anti-semitism is is believing the sterotypes used to judge if one is an anti-semite or not as it does in that report, it may be one of the most trivial issues around. 20% of Brits are anti-semitic? Come on...I've had conversations about every religion and most ethnicities, but really who is bothered about jews, here in England - they even have there own wing in the EDL. If it wasn't for this site I never would think about them at all. Though if I use this site to judge I would sterotype them as self-absorbed and the few I have known as brainiacs.

I think northerners drink too much ale, love ferrets and go on about their crushed manufacturing jobs market too much. I am not anti-north of England and would never wish any ill upon them...bloody northerners!.
jon357 67 | 16,902
23 Mar 2012 #155
If all anti-semitism is is believing the sterotypes used to judge if one is an anti-semite or not as it does in that report, it may be one of the most trivial issues around. 20% of Brits are anti-semitic? Come on...I've had conversations about every religion and most ethnicities, but really who is bothered

That's pretty well true.I still hear some bizarre things here in Warsaw though. Not long ago, I referred to Chalka as Jewish bread (which it is) and the response was "It's not Jewish, there's nothing wrong with it".

I think northerners drink too much ale, love ferrets and go on about their crushed manufacturing jobs market too much. I am not anti-north of England and would never wish any ill upon them...bloody northerners!.

Hey it's not so bad now, but 30 years ago a northern accent was a real barrier to career advancement in some fields in London - and even now people think one is somehow less sophisticated. We should have a northern anti-defamation league.
ReservoirDog - | 132
23 Mar 2012 #156
That's pretty well true.I still hear some bizarre things here in Warsaw though. Not long ago, I referred to Chalka as Jewish bread (which it is) and the response was "It's not Jewish, there's nothing wrong with it".

Are you sure it wasn't malicious joke?? Of course Poles know chałka is traditionally Jewish, best with fresh butter btw. :P So now you have two responses :I know chałka is Jewish and I like it, and there is nothing wrong with it.
jon357 67 | 16,902
23 Mar 2012 #157
Are you sure it wasn't malicious joke?? Of course Poles know chałka is traditionally Jewish

No, sadly it wasn't a joke.This particular Poles was a villager with very low cultural and educational interests - he didn't know it was a Jewish recipe. I've heard the word Jewish used that way a few times including to describe the parking arrangements in my street.
peterweg 37 | 2,320
23 Mar 2012 #158
I think Jon that this hate crime is genuine anti-semitism in its extreme form.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions, he killed Muslim soldiers and only attacked the school because he couldn't find any more soldiers. I suspect he was more of a attention seeker who killed for fun and choose easy targets.
modafinil - | 418
24 Mar 2012 #159
Kinda interesting that, when I heard the news in passing when it first happened, I only heard about the Jewish school. What was that joke Frankie Boyle said...no I better not repeat it.

People on the look out for anti-semitism such as the ADL seem to ignore that some people hate everyone except who they perceive to be their own.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703
24 Mar 2012 #160
but really who is bothered about jews, here in England

If it wasn't for this site I never would think about them at all

Perfect sum up of things in England. Its only since discovering Poland in general that Ive discovered just how many Jews are part of our national fabric.....unlike some though I could care less :)

They first came here as the Bankers and Loan sharks of the Norman invadors,were booted out once the Normans began to morph into the "english",a few hundred years later they came back and now we have Fish n Chips and sturdy under wear and the smug factor 11 (on here) of having had a Jewish( non practising. ) Prime Minister 150 years ago :) :)

We should have a northern anti-defamation league.

Nah, if the stereo types keep the worst of the southern softies dahrn sarf thats fine with me.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,840
24 Mar 2012 #161
now we have Fish n Chips and sturdy under wear and the smug factor 11

lolzzzz how true
and the 'Carry On' movies, don't forget!
Elkslayer
19 Dec 2014 #162
Merged: Trying to understand WWII era Polish anti-Semitism?

I have been doing quite a bit of reading on Polish history as of late and trying to put things in historical context and just trying to understand a few things. One thing I am not grasping is the cause of anti-Semitism in Poland post-Pilsudski. Obviously, it existed in some of the general public, and in the government and its policies towards the Jewish people. What I want to know is why it existed? Catholicism blaming Jews for the death of Christ? Lack of assimilation of the Jewish people; not even being able to speak Polish after many generations of living in Poland? The flood of dirt-poor Jews that were ousted by the Soviets taxing the Polish people? Obviously, you folks can't read people's minds from 70 years ago, but I would like your thoughts.

Thanks,

Jim
Moscow,ID
patrycja123
19 Dec 2014 #163
Catholicism blaming Jews for the death of Christ?

Perhaps but there are other Catholic countries that have nowhere near the amount of anti-Semitism Poland has.

Lack of assimilation of the Jewish people; not even being able to speak Polish after many generations of living in Poland?

This is a common anti-Semitic myth spread by many Poles. The Jews assimilated very well. They learned the language better than the average Pole. They contributed greatly to the Polish economy by having respectable jobs. How else could they have assimilated besides abandoning their religion which is ridiculous?

Furthermore, I'd like to add that anti-Semitism is still a major problem is modern Poland. Many of my family members and friends back home say disgusting anti-Semitic things. It's horrible and I never hear such things here in England.
Paulina 10 | 1,855
20 Dec 2014 #164
Perhaps but there are other Catholic countries that have nowhere near the amount of anti-Semitism Poland has.

No Catholic country had 3 million Jews and definitely no Catholic country was forced by an occupier to accommodate the Jews thrown out from the occupier's country (tsarist Russia):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_of_Settlement

Such unnatural concentration of people from one ethnicity, religion, culture, probably quite often even not knowing Polish language created tensions in overpopulated towns (Jews for some time weren't allowed to settle in the countryside) and brought poverty and antagonisms in already poor and undeveloped Russian partition (this part of Poland is still called "Poland B" nowadays, since it's still poorer and more undeveloped than "Poland A").

The Jews assimilated very well.

Some did, some didn't.

They learned the language better than the average Pole.

All of them?
I remember reading an article in a Polish newspaper "Gazeta Wyborcza" - I think it was an interview with Simcha Rathajzer-Rotem aka "Kazik", who came to Poland from Israel to take part in the commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (he's one of the three still alive participants of the uprising). He (if I remember right) was saying that the greatest chances of surviving usually had those Jews who not only knew Polish language, but also spoke it without accent and who had Polish friends - in other words, as we would call it nowadays, those who integrated. If you watched an interview with Władysław Szpilman (the protagonist of Roman Polański film "The Pianist") you would know he was one of such Jews.

It would clearly mean that there were those who didn't speak Polish. Not really surprising considering how big Jewish communities were in some places.

I also vaguely remember a young Jewish character from one of the Polish novels that are (or were when I was going to highschool) part of compulsory reading for Polish classes (the author was probably Żeromski or Prus perhaps, I don't remember) - through this character, if I remember correctly, apparently the dilemma of young Jewish people was presented - to assimilate or not to assimilate into the Polish society.

The reason for this dilemma is pretty clear for most Polish people, I imagine.

Patrycja, I think you're either rather ignorant or you aren't Polish... o_O

Many of my family members and friends back home say disgusting anti-Semitic things.

Where are you from?

the greatest chances of surviving

surviving the Holocaust, of course
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2015 #165
Merged: Jews on anti-Semitism (a documenatry)

Israeli director Yoav Shamir embarks on a provocative -- and at times irreverent -- quest to answer the question, "What is anti-Semitism today?" Does it remain a dangerous and immediate threat? Or is it a scare tactic used by right-wing Zionists to discredit their critics? Speaking with an array of people from across the political spectrum (including the head of the Anti-Defamation League and its fiercest critic, (author Dr.Norman Finkelstein ) and traveling to places like Auschwitz (alongside Israeli school kids) and Brooklyn (to explore reports of violence against Jews), Shamir discovers the realities of anti-Semitism today. His findings are shocking, enlightening and -- surprisingly -- often wryly funny.

neofb.net/defamation.html

We mostly focus on what Poles and other Gentiles have to say about anti-Semitism. This enlightening
documentary made by Jews provides a Jewish-eye view of the problem.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
20 Jul 2015 #166
Interesting documentary.

"It evokes anger toward the other side. Pain, anger, even hate"
"They are all anti-Semitic. Some are noisier than others"
"An increase (in anti-Semitism) sells..."


Sad to see how the kids are indoctrinated at such a young age.
archiwum 13 | 125
24 Jul 2015 #167
Semetic can be Arabic to. In, General.
Polsyr 6 | 769
24 Jul 2015 #168
@archiwum: That is technically correct...
Lyzko 30 | 7,373
26 Jul 2015 #169
Usually though, anti-semitic, means anti-Jewish and not anti-Arab. Looks more here like hair-splitting to me.
Vox - | 175
27 Jul 2015 #170
Usually though, anti-semitic, means anti-Jewish

Usually though, anti-Semitic means - how dare you criticize us or we don't like you.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Jul 2015 #171
anti-Semitism happens

But nothing in life "just happens" -- there is always a reason and usually multiple reasons for everything. One reason for anti-Semitism is widepsread anti-Goyism (including therein anti-Polonism aka Polanophobia) amongst Jews -- so that atttiude of racio-religious superiority ("chosen people" and all that) can trigger a backlash. There are other reasons: per capita over-representation in prestigious and lucrative fields of endeavour, jealousy, religious animosity, racism (dislike for hooked noses and big ears), being personally wronged by Jews (always a strong motivation) and probably mnay more.
jon357 67 | 16,902
27 Jul 2015 #172
But nothing in life "just happens" -- there is always a reason and usually multiple reasons for everything.

The reason here is simply fear of 'the other'. Unless you prefer victim blaming.

widepsread anti-Goyism

Nonsense. Any hostility by that group or members of that group is merely a defence against hate crimes of others.

over-representation in prestigious and lucrative fields of endeavour

So you're suggesting jealousy by the inferior to teh superior.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Jul 2015 #173
simply fear of 'the other'

Unlike your simplistic mono-reason, I tried who show mutliple motivation. Racial and religous animosity is another way of seeing fear of "the other".

Of course, jealousy is always the inferior being jealous of the superior.
You have apparently not interacted much with Jews, but in their own circles they are very anti-Goyist and that includes the non-observant, secular Jews. No, they don't imitate neo-fasict thugs and don't wave "Down with Gentiles" placards -- they are far more subtle. The gentile is not hired or bypassed for promotion. The unhired or unpromoted Goy may feel discriminated against, but thta has been part of their recipe for success. It has enabled a relatively small nation (15 mln at last count) to survive and thrive under the most adverse of conditions. Jews should be admired for the kind of in-group solidarity they idsplay, something I only wish Poles could muster. But Poles are too busy stabbing each other in the back.
jon357 67 | 16,902
27 Jul 2015 #174
I tried who show mutliple motivation

There isn't any. Hatred is hatred. Any so-called 'excuses' are just a pretext.
Marsupial - | 886
27 Jul 2015 #175
What's there to diagnose basically anti semitism is a term given to this group of people because they are the most hated group of people they even have their own term.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Jul 2015 #176
'excuses'

Stonewalling or dismissing everything except your "one true explanation" is also making in an attmept to avoid open disucssion.Deynig the prev<aylence of Jewish supremacist and anti-Gentile attitudes do not repdxl,ain them nor make them go away. Presumaly a fairly educated person like yourself could not be so biased or monothematic. Jews and Cambodians, Poles and Bolivians and most everyone else cannot be reduced to a single common denominator. Hasn't anyone told you there is life beyond the hetero-homo divide!
jon357 67 | 16,902
27 Jul 2015 #177
open disucssion

Because your 'open discussion' is just looking for excuses for anti-Semitism as evidenced by your posts in other threads.
Atch 16 | 3,296
27 Jul 2015 #178
You have apparently not interacted much with Jews,

But I have. Before I was a teacher I worked for a Jewish company in London.

The gentile is not hired or bypassed for promotion.

The company was a large one with several branch offices around London. A little over half the staff in my branch were Jewish. That was because the senior ones had been there since the company was set up by two Jewish guys. The mid-level employees were a mixture of all sorts including an Indian, an Egyptian, a Greek, regular Brits and Irish Catholic me. The juniors were mostly Jewish because entry level positions were rarely advertised and tended to be filled through word of mouth. The company certainly didn't discriminate but they had a reputation as a 'Jewish' company so they didn't get many applications from 'Goys'. I was promoted and very well treated there.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Jul 2015 #179
anti-Semitism

You must be paranoid, because you cannot point to a single anti-Semitic remark I have ever made. Just a sweeping generalisation to derail or quash all disucssion.

very well treated there

Personal experience is a strong motivating and opinion-moulding force, but I prefer a wider discussion of issues. My dad had a Jewish accountant who was a very good and loyal employee. My wife didn't get her PhD through the machinations of a Jewish lady professor.

To me anecdotal occurences are interesting only to the extent that they fit into a broader picture.
Every nation gets a set of givens to work with and Jews have known how to use them to maximum advantage. Clannishness or ethno-relgious solidarity or call it what you like has played an important part in their survival strategy. Dunno what things are like in Ireland or the UK, but in the States Jewish leaders discourage intermarriage with Gentiles. The reason is that mixed marriages have a lower observance rate than Jewish-Jewish ones.

jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/US-Jews-debate-intermarriage-as-survey-shows-jump-in-mixed-unions-327735

That is noithign bad, althouhg in today's diversity-obsessed and multi-culti times some may regard that as xenophobic ( I don't). It's part of their overall recipe for survival.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,840
27 Jul 2015 #180
My wife didn't get her PhD through the machinations of a Jewish lady professor.

alternatively your wife did not get her PhD because what she had written was not good enough.
I know which scenario I find more likely tbh.


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