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The history and discussion of the Bambrzy people in Greater Poland/Posen area

Slavicaleks 8 | 98
20 Jul 2012 #1
Just wanting to know more about the Bambrzy and their history in Poland from when they first settled to modern times.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,230
20 Jul 2012 #2
The interesting information is on the Polish wiki site. It says that in the inter-war period (1918-1939), the name bamber was given to an honest and wealthy farmer, while after the WWII, the name acquired a derogatory meaning.

And indeed, it is by such a meaning that I got to know this name as an inhabitant of the Warsaw area. At that time, I had no idea that the word bamber was of foreign origin, but I knew that bamber was a rather wealthy farmer, usually one that grows vegetables (bogaty ogrodnik).

The word can still be heard in the Warsaw area. A friend of mine who used to be a bamber (but of purely Polish origin), has now sold most of his land to the construction companies or to the State for the A2 motorway, and has subsequently become a modern capitalist who invests money in property and on the Warsaw Stock Exchange.
boletus 30 | 1,361
20 Jul 2012 #3
Fragment of translation of Luboń contract:

Let it be known to everyone now and to their descendants, that we the undersigned: Mayor and the Councilors, Voit and the Assessors, twenty men and Stewards, acting as the administrators of estates belonging to the Royal City of Poznań, owning a village called Luboń, recently ruined by Swedish war and various incursions, as well as devoided of population by pestilence, which the Lord had affected the whole city of Poznań with the surroundings in 1709, in order for this settlement to become perfect again, we have undertaken to announce and publish our intent of bringing people to whom liberties would be given.

It just happened that certain group of free German people, seeking new place to settle down, found the village of Luboń to their liking and approached our offices with their request.

So by understanding and accepting their request, and reflecting on the need to developing the estate as quickly as possible, especially that these people are of Roman Catholic faith, and believing that the German people maintain farms in good order, obey the law, pay taxes or rent on time, willingly provide manpower, and follow all duties and orders, we let these German people to settle and build in this our village of Luboń - giving them all the village fields, meadows, and overgrown pastures from where they could collect firewood as well as building materials - but with their obligation of carrying all the burden, such as of peasants, and for benefit of the all town.

  • districts of Pozna, former Bambry villages mentioned in above links
NorthMancPolak 4 | 645
20 Jul 2012 #6
Then you need to learn some manners, and understand why Poles may object to a German name for their cities.
TheOther 6 | 3,602
20 Jul 2012 #7
That's nonsense, unless you are talking about posting on PF here. Poles have Polish names for German cities, Germans have German names for Polish cities. The same thing happens in almost every language all over the world.
delphiandomine 87 | 18,086
20 Jul 2012 #8
im happy with the way it is

It's wrong in English. Are you happy being uneducated?
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
20 Jul 2012 #9
This post is about German settlers to Posen. So German names apply to this post.

some reading about the post subject

In German its Called Posen and they were German and they are apart of Polish History. Maybe you are a descendant of them !

Move on...
pawian 223 | 24,535
20 Jul 2012 #10
Poznan, Posen, whatever. Some freshmen might lack education, that is normal.

But if they consciously refuse to absorb education and don`t follow good advice, that is not normal and suggests they are stinking trolls, as delph noticed before. :):):)

That is why I am not going to participate in this thread but will develop another one. :):):):):)
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
21 Jul 2012 #11
is anyone here descended from the Posener Bamberger people ?
boletus 30 | 1,361
21 Jul 2012 #12
This post is about German settlers to Posen. So German names apply to this post.

No, if you had really, really prepared yourself to your own thread you would have known that the Bambers quickly polonized, already in the second generation.

The main driving force behind this state of affairs was the prosaic fact that Bambers were devout Roman Catholics. Ignorance of the Polish language prevented their participation in the spiritual life in their parishes; also being a minority in the Polish territories the knowledge of language was necessary for the proper conduct of their own economy.

The Polonisation of this group was a voluntary act and happened very quickly. The settlers refused to build their own churches, prayed with Poles, and their children learned the Polish language. There were also many mixed marriages with Poles living there. At the end of the 19th century, during the Kulturkampf period, all Catholics in villages inhabited by Bambrzy chose Polish nationality during Prussian and German censuses.

So no, "German names do NOT apply to this post". You just farted it out.

Secondly, this thread is NOT "about German settlers to Posen", it is about German settlers to Poznan - or more correctly "Royal City of Poznań", "Regia Urbe Posnani". See post #3, with the translation of the document 1709, originally written in Latin.

The good King Jan III Sobieski, the victor from Vienna, just died few years before (1696) - after reorganizing the administration of HIS ROYAL CITY of POZNAŃ in 1693. Lucky for him, he did not have to face all the tribulations imposed on Poznań by the foreign armies: Saxons, Swedes, Prussians, rebellious Poles, and even Russians. The Great Northern War, The War of Polish Succession, and the Seven Years War had devastating effects on the entire province. But yet, it was still the Poland's Province of Wielkopolska, with its capital Poznań.

But if you are so very eager to call it Posen, you have to wait until 1793 when Prussia authored and participated in the 2nd Poland's Partition - stealing the Greater Poland and renaming it as Prussian Prowinz Posen.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
21 Jul 2012 #13
what does it matter if i call it posen or poznan i am talking about the same.
and i prefer to call it Posen when i am talking about germans and german history of greater poland. you are welcome to call it poznan or you can not comment on this post at all....

I was watching the Euro 2012 and the sign saying what city was in English for ALL GAMES... example was Warsaw NOT Warszawa. Maybe you should of boycotted the euro 2012
catsoldier 60 | 590
21 Jul 2012 #14
what does it matter if i call it posen or poznan i am talking about the same.

I think it is better to call places and people by their proper names, it is rude not to.
boletus 30 | 1,361
21 Jul 2012 #15
what does it matter if i call it posen or poznan i am talking about the same.

Apparently it matters, otherwise you would not get this kind of reaction. I have tried to help you again - this time explaining the rules, but you have grown too arrogant to my liking. That's what I am going to do, following Pawian advice - I am getting out of here.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
21 Jul 2012 #16
this is a lost cause. its not nice for people to force their opinions on other people. the post clearly says what its about if people are so primitive to have a problem what someone uses the german name for poznan when talking about germans who moved to that area well communism worked well in Poland wooops sorry Polska

Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,227
21 Jul 2012 #17
It's just in English one says Poznan, in Polish it's Poznań...
Maybe during the time it was under the control of the Prussian state or Germany til 1918 it was called Posen by the EngLish, but now it isn't so most people would (mis)take you for an GermAn nationalist of some sort. It's just about giving the wrong impression THEY only THINK your provoking theM (meAning troLling/flAming).

Although Many people with GermAn ancestry were PoLonized, for instAnce my faMily ALso. Somebody cAlled Mr. H ruined it for plenty of GermAns in Poland after the war... They were ashamed of their ancestry and tried to hide it or never speak of it again LeAding to polonization. Before the war they were proudly saying "We have GerMan blood in our veins even if we speak Polish perfectly" and spoke GermAn. Now that doesn't occur any more so to speak.
delphiandomine 87 | 18,086
21 Jul 2012 #18
what does it matter if i call it posen or poznan i am talking about the same.

It matters because you're deliberately using a name that evokes negativity in the minds of Poles. No-one minds if a German uses Posen when speaking in Polish, but anyone with half an ounce of sense would never use Posen in English. Even my German friends use Poznan and not Posen - simply because it's not the name in English.

One would think that a self-professed historian would at least get their home city name right.
TheOther 6 | 3,602
21 Jul 2012 #19
I think it is better to call places and people by their proper names, it is rude not to.

The forum language is English, so the city should be called Poznan. Otherwise we would have to call Beijing by its real name 北京 from now on.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
21 Jul 2012 #20
Not my fault people cant get over the fact I use the word Posen when talking about the German history of the area.

god bless you all
delphiandomine 87 | 18,086
21 Jul 2012 #21
The area wasn't German at the time in question. If you were talking about the city during the Prussian era, then yes, you can use Posen to describe it. But you weren't - you were talking about people who left Germanic lands and settled in what was called Poznań, or Poznan in English.

Poor show, indeed.
OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
21 Jul 2012 #22
people her have a German hang up... poor form
rybnik 18 | 1,453
21 Jul 2012 #23
Nope. You are the one with poor form and manners. Why do you insist the way you do if the intent was not to irritate?

You behave like a 8-year-old!

Poor show, indeed.

OP Slavicaleks 8 | 98
21 Jul 2012 #24
I have free will and choice. If people let the post continue instead of crying about what language i use for a city in modern day Poland. I was hoping it would lead to German settlement in western Poland generally but i didn't even get the chance to do that. I generally don't care about Germany or Poland and who is right and wrong in history that is all a matter of opinion. If people don't like that i used Posen when talking about Germans in that area its their problem not mine. its simple do not comment and leave this post alone. Polish people on this forum have a massive hang up on anything German. its 2012 not 1939.

what language someone uses when talking about a city that has changed hands many times is their business and like i said if you not like it than don't contribute to the conversation with pollution and stubbornness. good day
TheOther 6 | 3,602
21 Jul 2012 #25
Polish people on this forum have a massive hang up on anything German. its 2012 not 1939.

Not necessarily "the Polish", but some members of Polish Forums. In general you are correct, though. WW2 is still a very dominant theme here on PF, together with an obsession for "the Jews", the British betrayal of Poland, the Russians, the Germans, and a handful of other topics. Depending on the thread, an unsuspecting visitor might come to the conclusion that this web site is somehow related to Stormfront or some other neo-nazi venue, and will leave with a totally wrong impression of Poland. Sad, but most likely true.

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