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Lithuanians hate Poles?



Harry 81 | 13,431    
10 Jan 2012  #91

this fragment is part of the Polish wikipedia entry on Lithuanisation (Litwinizacja)

So in other words it is pretty much guaranteed to be entirely objective, utterly unbiased and completely reliable.


piktoonis - | 86    
10 Jan 2012  #92

Believing in imaginary newspapers isn't a good sign either.

I guess he meant local yellow press :D
gumishu 11 | 4,661    
10 Jan 2012  #93

gumishu:
this fragment is part of the Polish wikipedia entry on Lithuanisation (Litwinizacja)

So in other words it is pretty much guaranteed to be entirely objective, utterly unbiased and completely reliable.

and according to you it is completely made-up yeah, even if this is just 50 per cent of truth in it it is still a serious thing
Harry 81 | 13,431    
10 Jan 2012  #94

I wouldn't say it is completely made-up, but given how a fair bit of the English-language stuff about Polish history is getting so bad (despite both 'sides' being able to contribute) and how so few Lithuanians speak Polish, the text is unlikely to present a neutral viewpoint or use particularly reliable sources (although I haven't checked the sources).
Ironside 46 | 8,403    
10 Jan 2012  #95

"On August 18, 2011 this year. The General Prosecutor's Office of Lithuania , the European Foundation for Human Rights sent several requests to initiate criminal proceedings against those who, in their online comments called for illegal activities or concerned in a manner disparaging , derogatory and offensive to Lithuanian citizens belonging to national minorities , in particular the Polish minorities. The legal basis is Article complaints . 170 (para. 2 and 3) of the Criminal Code , which criminalizes incitement against any nation , race , ethnic, religious or other group of people.

In our opinion, the authors of the comments spoke about ethnic minorities in ways that transcend the boundaries of freedom of expression defined by international agreements ratified by the Republic of Lithuania, the European Convention on Human Rights and the Constitution RL . Complaints have been made ​​by the European Foundation of Human Rights , whose main aim is to promote civic activities and soliciting respecting the rights of marginalized groups , both because of their ethnic origin , social status , religion or sex."

Harry 81 | 13,431    
10 Jan 2012  #96

http://kurierwilenski.lt/2011/08/18/europejska-fundacja-praw-czl owieka -przeciwko-narastajacej-fali-nienawisci-w-internecie-na-litwie/

If you are aware that promoting race hate is illegal, why do you post in the way that you do?
piktoonis - | 86    
10 Jan 2012  #97

Ironside, stop quoting Kurier Wilenski. This "newspaper" prints what AWPL says, and that has too much propaganda.
Ironside 46 | 8,403    
10 Jan 2012  #98

If you are aware that promoting race hate is illegal, why do you post in the way that you do?

Where I'm prompting race hate? - are you posting again on booze?

and that has too much propaganda.

that a point of view no propaganda
Necroshade - | 4    
11 Apr 2012  #99

Or Lithuania should accept loss of the territories and being friendly instead of setting herself on grabbing the land that had about 3% of Lithuanian.
That would make even more sense !

Oh yeah losing your ancient capital and half of your people's homeland to a foreigner and accepting it NO! Thanking them for it is completely sensible. Afterall there is no way that the people there have been influenced by Poland over centuries and are actually Lithuanians genetically that have been damaged by centuries of occupation. I wonder if the roles were reversed would Poland react like this? Say "yeah they took our capital and half our country, but that is acceptable because of a survey". I don't remember any of us (Lithuanians or Poles) just accepting Russian Empire as the new government when the Commonwealth was split. Maybe you just choose to ignore that this is a time when Lithuania just became free from Russia and now they should be happy to just give themselves over to Poland instead, so swap one overlord for another is a great solution in your eyes I guess.
Ironside 46 | 8,403    
11 Apr 2012  #100

Oh yeah losing your ancient capital and half of your people's homeland to a foreigner and accepting it NO

Use the quote function next time.
That is what I'm talking about , you are so wrong on so many levels that I will came back to answer this one latter.

Two issues, it wasn't YOUR capital and they weren't foreigners !Let it sink in !
That is an example of your history - back of fiction mixed with BS and wishful thinking !
Don't blame you but it is time to think for yourself !
Necroshade - | 4    
17 Apr 2012  #101

Wasn't our capital? Really? So Vilnius established by Grand Duke Gediminas before Lithuania even began associating with Poland and made it the Lithuanian STATE CAPITAL makes it not Lithuania's capital yeah that makes perfect sense. So Poland is not a foreign country to a Lithuanian because everyone knows we are EXACTLY the same in every shape and form, language, culture, tradition, genetics it is all exactly the same.

The territory included Vilnius, the historical capital of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Let that sink in :)
pawian 127 | 6,555    
17 Apr 2012  #102

Lithuanians hate Poles?

If they do, they are ungrateful. Poland saved their miserable assses for a few centuries. If not for Poland`s war effort, they would have been conquered by Russians in 16 century and today they would be fully russianised like Eastern Ukrainians.
peterweg 36 | 2,292    
17 Apr 2012  #103

In the same way the Poles should be grateful to the Germans.
pawian 127 | 6,555    
17 Apr 2012  #104

:):):):):)

Sorry....

OK, what do you mean???
Ironside 46 | 8,403    
17 Apr 2012  #105

In the same way the Poles should be grateful to the Germans.

I'm laughing now :D well actually is a quite sad, !

by Grand Duke Gediminas befo

In the medieval times there were no one capital, there were few castles used by a ruler. Wilno as a town and a city is an creation Polish and Lithuanian union.

Kazimerz Jagielonczyk made Wilno into his capital.

the Lithuanian STATE

There were not Lithuanian state but Grand Duchy of Lithuania a country multi-ethnic from the start to the end! Ethnic ( as you understand them today) Lithuanians were always minority.

So Poland is not a foreign country to a Lithuanian because everyone knows we are EXACTLY the same in every shape and form, language, culture, tradition, genetics it is all exactly the same.

No because constitutions from 1791 accepted by both deputies and senators from the Crown and Grand Duchy of Lithuania made from Poland and Lithuania a one country !

The territory included Vilnius, the historical capital of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Let that sink in :)

Keep it but give all right and privileges to the Poles living there or your chauvinistic, narrow-minded and annoying attitude will cost

your

historical capital. Warsaw population 3mln people Lithuanian about 3,5 mln - let it Sink in!
(Bloody Samogitians from their backwoods ! )
piktoonis - | 86    
18 Apr 2012  #106

Wilno as a town and a city is an creation Polish and Lithuanian union.

Go get some history book and read when was Vilnius founded and when lithuanian-polish relations began.
jon357 70 | 12,793    
18 Apr 2012  #107

azimerz Jagielonczyk

Grand Duchy of Lithuania

1791

That isn't any basis for today's borders.
peterweg 36 | 2,292    
18 Apr 2012  #108

OK, what do you mean???

Its very easy to think you are doing a country a 'favour' but they probably don't see it that way. The Russians and Germans could claim that they both saved Poland from each other, but would Poles see it that way?
pawian 127 | 6,555    
18 Apr 2012  #109

There is sth wrong with your thinking.

When exactly did Germans save Poland from Russians so that Poles should be grateful? ???????

That is why, I still don`t understand this statement of yours:

In the same way the Poles should be grateful to the Germans.

You need to elaborate.
Ironside 46 | 8,403    
18 Apr 2012  #110

Go get some history book and read when was Vilnius founded

Who cares about few huts in the forest. I'm talking real town, son.

That isn't any basis for today's borders.

The only basics for today's border was the Stalin's decision !
jon357 70 | 12,793    
18 Apr 2012  #111

Who cares about few huts in the forest. I'm talking real town, son.

I should think the Vilnius of Kazimierz Jagiellonczyk wasn't exactly Dubai.

The only basics for today's border was the Stalin's decision !

You mean the decision of what was at that time the lawful government of Lithuania with the assent of the lawful government of Poland.

Mind you, perhaps you have a point. Why not give back Breslau, Oppeln and Stettin to Germany, since

The only basics for today's border was the Stalin's decision !

Ironside 46 | 8,403    
19 Apr 2012  #112

I should think the Vilnius of Kazimierz Jagiellonczyk wasn't exactly Dubai.

No there were only few muslim!

ou mean the decision of what was at that time the lawful government of Lithuania with the assent of the lawful government of Poland.

You should reconsider your understanding of lawful because as it stands now you are contesting the Novembers Tribunal.

Mind you, perhaps you have a point.

I miss your point here ! We are talking about discrimination against minority in Lithuania. I would think that for once you would agree with me but obviously few Poles aren't noble enough minority to be defended.
jon357 70 | 12,793    
19 Apr 2012  #113

No there were only few muslim!

And not as many Poles either.

but obviously few Poles aren't noble enough minority to be defended.

The way to defend a group of people is not to attack the territorial integrity and even the very capital of the country they are in.
Ironside 46 | 8,403    
19 Apr 2012  #114

And not as many Poles either.

Noticeable community already.

The way to defend a group of people is not to attack the territorial integrity and even the very capital of the country they are in.

Generally speaking you are right but here we are faced with specific circumstances and very specific attitudes.
jon357 70 | 12,793    
19 Apr 2012  #115

Noticeable community already.

But not, however, a majority identifying as Poles.

we are faced with specific circumstances and very specific attitudes

Those circumstances are two neighbouring countries with some shared history who are both in the EU. If the UK and Ireland can get on without rancour, so can Poland and Lithuania.
Necroshade - | 4    
20 Apr 2012  #116

Grateful to Poland? Protected Lithuania? Oh btw WE wanted to break the union in January 1429 Vytautas already had received the title of King of Lithuania with the backing of Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor, but the envoys who were transporting the crown were stopped by POLISH magnates in autumn of 1430. Another crown was sent, but Vytautas died in the Trakai Island Castle several days before it reached Lithuania. If you wanna talk later the then King of the Lith/Pol saw the bigger picture which you are missing Sigismund II Augustus, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, seeing the threat to Lithuania and eventually to Poland made the union possible so please don't you dare declare that Lithuania is to blame for the destruction of our nations and that we should be grateful for losing our independence to the point that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth became simply Poland. Anyway everyone here should know that the Commonwealth fell because it destroyed itself from the inside believing at one point that being weak meant that nobody would attack it.

Russianised? That is just laughable you do realise that unlike Poland or Ruthenians Lithuanians are not slavic people and do not share the same language. That being said the Russians tried to russify us for as long as they have tried to russify you a nation much closer to Russia in terms of language which would be the bridge into inflicting a different culture. The fact is that Russians sent many colonists to Lithuania but they all failed and their failure is seen even today as Russian minorities are spread out all over Lithuania but are even smaller than the amount of Poles shocking isnt it considering that we have only been independent for roughly 20 years. So tell me if they could not silence our nationalism over the course of over a century and the effects of it were this small after additional half a century occupation then what would another century or even 2 centuries do? Ukrainians and Belarussians were in the Commonwealth and under Lithuania for much longer than they were under Russia yet they remained true to their identities. You might say that language is not important as Lithuanian nobility was Polanised over time that is true but the circumstances were different as becoming more Polish brought benefits to them but note that the peasants never became Polanised as it brought no benefit to them. Under Russia the same principle applies just that there is no benefit on either side. Besides Russia heavily cencored anything that would remind Lithuanians of what Lithuania is and it still didnt work.
piktoonis - | 86    
20 Apr 2012  #117

Who cares about few huts in the forest. I'm talking real town, son.

Few huts? By middle 14th century, Vilnius already was a big city and a capital. How old are you to call me "son"?

We are talking about discrimination against minority in Lithuania

Which is nothing but a propaganda

Noticeable community already

There were no poles until late 16th century.
Ironside 46 | 8,403    
20 Apr 2012  #118

But not, however, a majority identifying as Poles.

Neither were Lithuanian!! Anyway at the time that would be subject of the Crown, not Poles !

Those circumstances are two neighbouring countries with some shared history who are both in the EU. If the UK and Ireland can get on without rancour, so can Poland and Lithuania.

I don't care about shared history they do not respect it much and change it to suit their fantasies. I care about Poles in this supposedly EU country. Yet nobody is doing anything about that.

I would like to know why ?

Grateful to Poland? Protected Lithuania?

Clutching at straw ? Get real ! Without Poland your Duchy wouldn't had lasted a decade! I really wish that Poland choose Piast from Warsaw as a King.

However wishful thinking and past misgivings are not important here. The facts and history is as it is and in that Poland supported the Grand Duchy very existence.

Few huts? By middle 14th century, Vilnius already was a big city and a capital.

eh? figuratively speaking, a big city ? I see you are speaking figuratively also.
The point is Wilno started to develop when Poland and Duchy enjoyed peace and trade, not before !

Which is nothing but a propaganda

We already heard your lies. Fact in 1930' that wouldn't be called discrimination but we have 2012 .

There were no poles until late 16th century.

Is that is extract from the Fairy Stories you call the Lithuanian history books. hahah!
piktoonis - | 86    
20 Apr 2012  #119

eh? figuratively speaking, a big city ? I see you are speaking figuratively also. The point is Wilno started to develop when Poland and Duchy enjoyed peace and trade, not before !

Is that so?

We already heard your lies. Fact in 1930' that wouldn't be called discrimination but we have 2012 .

Yeah, yeah, heard that many times from you. Fact is, only you and several more fanatics believe this.

Is that is extract from the Fairy Stories you call the Lithuanian history books. hahah!

This is extracted from your most dreadful nightmare xD
Ironside 46 | 8,403    
20 Apr 2012  #120

Yeah, yeah, heard that many times from you. Fact is, only you and several more fanatics believe this.

Wishful thinking eh?son




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