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Lithuanians hate Poles?



vincaslt - | 1    
8 Jan 2012  #31

I am Lithuanian myself, and I can't say I don't like Poles, I somehow admire them, like their language and even trying to learn it. I don't just like how Polish nation representative in Lithuania, or how's he called - Waldemar Tomaszewski acts. So due to harsh politics and Polish people in Lithuania agreeing to his quote "Vilnius belongs to Poland, as it was always so historically", some of Lithuanians make a impression that all of the Polish people are like that. They make an impression that Poland want's to retake Vilnius, just like Józef Piłsudski did, because in some towns people even put Polish street name plates just below the Lithuanian ones.

I think I made it clear, why is that so.


blackadder 1 | 122    
8 Jan 2012  #32

Any source for that?

cbos.pl/PL/publikacje/public_opinion/2011/02_2011.pdf

Serbs are less liked than Turks,Jews,Ukrainians,Russians...So your crusades on Polish forums won't change that.Don't mix Serbia in every thread about Poland,it's annoying...
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,196    
8 Jan 2012  #33

because in some towns people even put Polish street name plates just below the Lithuanian ones.

Really ? Shocking...
Mr Grunwald 17 | 1,481    
8 Jan 2012  #34

Actually not.

I would recommend reading
Gorzka Chwała
Polska i jej los 1918-1939

An American written it without any connection with Poland
He is sometimes harsh at places (which I could call him almost Germanophilic) but, the rest is VERY neutral and is harsh to both sides (like not blaming Czechs alone but Poles and Czechs)

Reading it, you could understand why Poland was behaving like it did to minorities and why Poland didn't annex Lithuania during her resurrection.
The strong need to be counted as an power or an major power in her area is a big hint

(To mods, this book shows Poland's past during 1918-1939 which is a base for today's relations with Poland for Lithuanians, I think it is perfectly on topic to recommend this book)
porzeczka - | 107    
8 Jan 2012  #35

in the times of the Soviet Union they had no need to learn Lithuanian language

It is possible that older generations of Lithuanian Poles don't know Lithuanian as well as younger generation which learns this language as compulsory subject at schools and has been exposed to it since childhood. Maybe language courses for older adults would be more appropriate instead of the proposed reform?

They make an impression that Poland want's to retake Vilnius, just like Józef Piłsudski did, because in some towns people even put Polish street name plates just below the Lithuanian ones.

We have double-naming in Poland too: Polish-Lithuanian plates, Polish-German, Polish-Kashubian. Polish-Lemko...

The act states that traditional names in minority languages of localities and physiographic objects, as well as street names can be applied as auxiliary names to fixed geographical names in Polish.

These names in minority languages can be determined for objects located in communes in which the given minority constitutes at least 20% of the population. Such names can be also determined for localities in communes in which the given minority constitutes less than 20% of the population.In such cases, an auxiliary name can be introduced provided that the majority of the locality’s population decides for it in result of consultations held according to rules and regulations defined by the Commune Council.

Source
Mr Grunwald 17 | 1,481    
8 Jan 2012  #36

Serbs are less liked than Turks,Jews,Ukrainians,Russians...

Mostly because of historical ignorance of the Balkans, if most Poles would know Croatia's history (German historical "friendship") they would tend more to side with Serbia. I bet that Poles that do know or have some information about Balkan history (pointing at Croatia) they would take an anti-Croatian stance or slight pro-Serbian stance. As you see in the statistic it could only be cause of propaganda and ignorance that most Poles tend to be positive towards Croatia and skeptical towards Serbia (Croatia = Catholic anti-Russian?, while Serbia = Russia's brother). The thing that Russia risked a world war to help Serbia isn't too positive in Poland unless one learns the rest.

We have double-naming in Poland too: Polish-Lithuanian plates, Polish-German, Polish-Kashubian. Polish-Lemko...

You see... Lithuanians want an modern state based on their own nationality. Having their language only
piktoonis - | 86    
8 Jan 2012  #37

Maybe language courses for older adults would be more appropriate instead of the proposed reform?

And how many would go to those courses? I guess very few
porzeczka - | 107    
8 Jan 2012  #38

That's their choice and loss. The point is: why do you want to reform the education of young people (limit the number of lessons taught in Polish in "Polish schools", add more subjects in Lithuanian) if there is no need for such changes - young Lithuanian Poles are fluent in Lithuanian language.
PennBoy 77 | 2,442    
8 Jan 2012  #39

But Meathead Lithuania isn't really a foreign country to Poland.

True that belt of land where the ethnic Poles live from the Polish border to Vilnius and beyond was once Poland. Those Poles have been living there for hundreds of years.

Lithuania is a foreign country. Poles don't speak Lithuanian, they don't know much about Lithuania and generally speaking, their knowledge stops at "Lithuania, my home country". It may have been one country in the past, but it hasn't been for over 200 years.

It didn't need to be a united country that land they live on was Poland 70 years ago. delphie have you considered that maybe they don't wanna be Lithuanians? maybe they consider them beneath them since Poland took their land and even during the time of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth Poland managed to take the Ukraine from them since it was getting involved in wars every time Lithuania was invaded. Lithuanian nobility without being forced to, embraced the Polish language and culture, as one historian said "Lithuanian nobility looked more Polish than our own"
piktoonis - | 86    
8 Jan 2012  #40

That's their choice and loss. The point is: why do you want to reform the education of young people (limit the number of lessons taught in Polish in "Polish schools", add more subjects in Lithuanian) if there is no need for such changes - young Lithuanian Poles are fluent in Lithuanian language.

Not all are fluent in lithuanian language. If they are fluent, why should they get easier exams? Thing is, they used to learn all subjects except lithuanian language in polish, while in Poland it is otherwise.
blackadder 1 | 122    
8 Jan 2012  #41

hey would take an anti-Croatian stance or slight pro-Serbian stance.

No way,they would rather take pro Roma stance than pro serb
peterweg 36 | 2,270    
8 Jan 2012  #42

Yes, things like why I don't need a residency permit to live in Poland....

Opps, sorry for the insult. So what is you nationality?
Mr Grunwald 17 | 1,481    
8 Jan 2012  #43

No way,they would rather take pro Roma stance than pro serb

Rome never was popular in Poland, not until our own Pope got to be in Rome...
Just read up what happened with the contra-reformation in Poland
Being catholic was seen as not being something our enemies were... (Swedes&Prussians (later most Germans) = protestant, Russians& Ukrainians = Orthodox Ottomon Empire = Islamic). Austria never was an huge enemy of Poland... That's maybe why we didn't go and do the Czech recipe.

Back to topic
I wish the Lithuanians were more pro-Polish :/
piktoonis - | 86    
8 Jan 2012  #44

I wish the Lithuanians were more pro-Polish :/

Well, before all that "discrimination" crap started, most lithuanians were sympathetic or neutral towards poles. After Tomasevski and Sikorski show, approval went down. Say thanks to those guys.
Mr Grunwald 17 | 1,481    
8 Jan 2012  #45

Sikorski

Yeah... I guess they wanted to take a more clear stand then the former ministers which were pro-Lithuanian just like Piłsudski (remember Piłsudski may have been the plan-master behind taking Vilnius but, Polish feelings towards Lithuanians wanting an separate country and not fighting the Soviets as the Poles did could easily have led to a take over which I truly believe Piłsudski did everything he could to prevent. His concern was for Vilnius to fall into Soviet hands, since he thought that the Baltic nations could anytime be swallowed by the Soviet union)
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
9 Jan 2012  #46

before all that "discrimination" crap started,

before that you were discriminating and were blissfully unaware that you are doing just that because you are simple, now that you know you should stop that detestable behaviour and comply with civilised rules or quit the EU and openly refuse to honour an agreement with Poland (from 1994).

I wish the Lithuanians were more pro-Polish :/

that would have require general change of their myths and fiction they call history.Hardly possible.
Mr Grunwald 17 | 1,481    
9 Jan 2012  #47

that would have require general change of their myths and fiction they call history.Hardly possible.

Stalin made Hitler into friends of the people.... Everything is possible..
If there is a will there is a way

What about western PC hit Lithuania? I would laugh out loud :)
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
9 Jan 2012  #48

Everything is possible..
If there is a will there is a way

judging by the example of pictoonis I doubt that, he is cheeky, ignorant, lazy, stubborn and last but least he likes himself this way.
piktoonis - | 86    
9 Jan 2012  #49

I truly believe Piłsudski did everything he could to prevent

He could have left those territories to Lithuania and have a friend instead of enemy. That would have benefited the whole region.

before that you were discriminating and were blissfully unaware that you are doing just that because you are simple, now that you know you should stop that detestable behaviour and comply with civilised rules or quit the EU and openly refuse to honour an agreement with Poland (from 1994).

Yeah, yeah, keep babbling.

hat would have require general change of their myths and fiction they call history.

And what is the true history? History made by you?

judging by the example of pictoonis I doubt that, he is cheeky, ignorant, lazy, stubborn and last but least he likes himself this way.

Maybe you should go out for a bit, talk with people, see that there is world around you, not only propaganda you believe so much. Or maybe you just need a girlfriend... xDD
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
9 Jan 2012  #50

He could have left those territories to Lithuania and have a friend instead of enemy. That would have benefited the whole region.

Or Lithuania should accept loss of the territories and being friendly instead of setting herself on grabbing the land that had about 3% of Lithuanian.
That would make even more sense !
Even better you could return Polish territories and you wouldn't have to deal with minorities, something which you evidently cannot handle

And what is the true history? History made by you?

And what your history a bag of shite ?

Maybe you should go out for a bit, talk with people, see that there is world around you, not only propaganda you believe so much. Or maybe you just need a girlfriend... xDD

maybe you should keep you advices for yourself boozy, have you been drinking while typing? Typical letuwin rubbish cheap booze driven !
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,455    
9 Jan 2012  #51

Maybe you should go out for a bit, talk with people, see that there is world around you, not only propaganda you believe so much. Or maybe you just need a girlfriend... xDD

nah, he is just a miserable sod, who doesn't even live in Poland and the only way not to lose connection is to read the Polish press - this is where he gets his views.

Watch, he is going to call me names after this post:)
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
9 Jan 2012  #52

Watch, he is going to call me names after this post:)

Have you put me on the ignore?
What happened, missing something in your life ? Miranda go back to your closet!
piktoonis - | 86    
9 Jan 2012  #53

Or Lithuania should accept loss of the territories and being friendly instead of setting herself on grabbing the land that had about 3% of Lithuanian.That would make even more sense !Even better you could return Polish territories and you wouldn't have to deal with minorities, something which you evidently cannot handle

Prove those 3%, then babble. If you are so all knowing, why aren't you polish PM?

maybe you should keep you advices for yourself boozy, have you been drinking while typing? Typical letuwin rubbish cheap booze driven !

Describing your life, aren't you Ironside? What does letuwin mean?
Ironside 44 | 8,293    
9 Jan 2012  #54

Prove those 3%, then babble. If you are so all knowing, why aren't you polish PM?

Are you Lithuanian PM?
No you prove your 25/% :DDD
maybe if you include so called "polonised Lithuanian ":D

What does letuwin mean?lituwa

piktoonis - | 86    
9 Jan 2012  #55

No you prove your 25/% :DDD

Once i find a book written not by lithuanians or poles, i would post its name. You could do the same.

piktoonis: What does letuwin mean?lituwa

So i should understand this babbling as "lithuanian"?
porzeczka - | 107    
9 Jan 2012  #56

Not all are fluent in lithuanian language. If they are fluent, why should they get easier exams?

Was there any research about the level of their fluency in Lithuanian? Fluency in given language shouldn't be seen as the ability to pass Matura exam from this language, which require additional knowledge (for example, of full spectrum of national literature) and skills, not only competence in writing and speaking in Polish/Lithuanian.

Thing is, they used to learn all subjects except lithuanian language in polish

From what I've read, the issue of "discrimination" lies in the fact that Lithuanian authorities are taking away from national minorities some educational rights the latter enjoyed for tens of years (also in free Lithuania), in a hurry, without consulting the communities and dialogue with them. You need a good reason/explanation for this.
gumishu 11 | 4,554    
9 Jan 2012  #57

You need a good reason/explanation for this.

the explanation is actually quite simple - Lithuania is short on money - but well it is also a pretext to marginalise Poles (if there are two schools in any given community it's the Polish that is going to be closed)
piktoonis - | 86    
9 Jan 2012  #58

Fluency in given language shouldn't be seen as the ability to pass Matura exam from this language, which require additional knowledge (for example, of full spectrum of national literature) and skills, not only competence in writing and speaking in Polish/Lithuanian.

Well, lithuanian exam has 2 parts: grammar test and interpretation. You don't have to know every literature book. Many poles have difficulties writing in lithuanian, part of them hardly speaks lithuanian. It is enough to listen to Tomasevski, his speech is far from perfect.
gumishu 11 | 4,554    
9 Jan 2012  #59

porzeczka:
Fluency in given language shouldn't be seen as the ability to pass Matura exam from this language, which require additional knowledge (for example, of full spectrum of national literature) and skills, not only competence in writing and speaking in Polish/Lithuanian.

Well, lithuanian exam has 2 parts: grammar test and interpretation. You don't have to know every literature book. Many poles have difficulties writing in lithuanian, part of them hardly speaks lithuanian. It is enough to listen to Tomasevski, his speech is far from perfect.

the thing piktoonis these people never went to Lithuania - Lithuania came to them - it didn't even come to them in 1945 it only came to them in 1990 - why do you expect of someone who was born into Polish language and then learned Russian in school (which is fairly easy for Poles) to suddenly be fluent in a very difficult to master Lithuanian language when they started learning it in their adulthood - should Polish children in Lithuania learn Lithuanian? - sure they should - should they be taught mostly in Lithuanian? - I don't think so (well the parents should have a choice simply) -
BBman - | 345    
10 Jan 2012  #60

The lithuanian government is creating this hatred of the poles. they dont want the lithuanian culture/language to die out so they try to instill nationalism among the people. easiest way of accomplishing this is to create an enemy.




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