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Kaczynski's Legacy


ShawnH Activity: 8 / 1,515
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13 Apr 2010  #1

So what will his legacy be? Will it be positive or negative?

What will history say about his accomplishments? Not necessarily how he made them happen, but the the deeds themselves. What didn't he get done?

Seanus Activity: 15 / 19,763
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 ♂
 
13 Apr 2010  #2

He supported a war criminal in Saakashvili so he is off to a bad start. My Polish friends were joking that he was more Georgian than Polish.

He resisted the endeavours of the globalists by denying loans and not giving up Polish notions in the Lisbon negotiations.

Also, he was the king of the veto.
Crow Activity: 132 / 5,702
Joined: 14 Feb 2007 ♂
 
13 Apr 2010  #3

few moments ago i wanted to start similar thread. Kaczynski deserve one

Kaczynski`s legacy? Good Polish-Russian relations. Realy good
aphrodisiac Activity: 11 / 2,465
Joined: 15 Apr 2009 ♀
 
13 Apr 2010  #4

f the globalists by denying loans

that is a good thing, especially with IMF and the World Bank
Filios1 Activity: 8 / 1,336
Joined: 13 Nov 2007 ♂
 
13 Apr 2010  #5

I thank Pan President Kaczynski for the Warsaw Uprising Museum in Warsaw that was built under his reccomendation.

I thank him for injecting some pride, patriotism, and love of tradition back into Poland's youth. (Although many of the youth will tell you they never voted for Kaczynski, or didn't agree with his platform, they cannot deny this, and indeed, I have heard many commend the President for this) Kaczynski may have been rude and upfront sometimes, but I think this in itself is a very unique feature of a politician. Honesty, and the ability to not hide behind a mask. You may criticize him for that, but I thank him for having the guts to do it on an international stage. He always fought for what was best, for Poland, and compromised only when it would be beneficial, unlike true ass kisser Tusk.

Probably first and foremost though, I would say thank you to the President for his work during Solidarnosć. Many people still do not understand how large of a role he played in that movement.

Truly a very good man, and he will be missed in Poland.

But do I think this has earned him a right to be buried in the Wawel Castle? I'm not quite sure of that, because he himself probably would have preferred to be buried in Warsaw, where he was mayor, and where he spent the majority of his adult life.

Many don't remember, but the City of Krakow recently voted no to Kaczynski becoming an honorary citizen of Krakow. It sounds like they are so guilt ridden now, that they have pushed for him to be buried in the Wawel, which is quite idiotic in my mind. You can't undo that disrespect.
Seanus Activity: 15 / 19,763
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 ♂
 
14 Apr 2010  #6

Aphro, I agree. Crow, you keep towing this line that he enhanced Polsko-Rosyjskie relacje, but how? He was perceived as a Russophobe by many Russians.
aphrodisiac Activity: 11 / 2,465
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14 Apr 2010  #7

Aphro, I agree.

oopsie daisy, my bad. Poland got an IMF loan of over 20 billions approved in 2009;(.
Mr Grunwald Activity: 17 / 1,483
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14 Apr 2010  #8

but how? He was perceived as a Russophobe by many Russians.

With his death, with his spiritual act of making the choice of flying to Smolensk made his death

His death made better Polish-Russian relations
that's why HE made better Polish-Russian relations?
I think that's how Crow was thinking
Seanus Activity: 15 / 19,763
Joined: 25 Dec 2007 ♂
 
14 Apr 2010  #9

Better relations by default and by the actions of others. We'll see how relations are if air traffic control is proven to have been lax but I don't think they were based on the most likely scenario.
celinski Activity: 31 / 1,260
Joined: 14 Nov 2007 ♀
 
14 Apr 2010  #10

President Kaczynski's last speech

I have lost some very special and respected people and I question where we shall go from here. I have linked the speech that was to be read as I could not find it posted. From the USA my heart is with you all. United we shall morn the devistating losses.

God Bless Poland, Carol Celinska Dove

All circumstances of the Katyn crime need to be investigated and revealed. It is important that innocence of the victims is officially confirmed and that all files concerning the crime are open so that the Katyn lie could disappear for ever. We demand it, first of all, for the sake of the memory of the victims and respect for their families' suffering. We also demand it in the name of common values, which are necessary to form a foundation of trust and partnership between the neighbouring nations in the whole Europe

thenews.pl/national/default.aspx?page=11&id=129342#com
Dougpol  
15 Apr 2010  #11

oopsie daisy, my bad. Poland got an IMF loan of over 20 billions approved in 2009;(.

And how else is Poland supposed to service it's investments, debts, welfare payments et al.
While it's still stuck in it's post communist era of refusing to deal with German money in city centre renewal such as on Korfantego in Katowice, where is the money to come from?
aphrodisiac Activity: 11 / 2,465
Joined: 15 Apr 2009 ♀
 
15 Apr 2010  #12

And how else is Poland supposed to service it's investments, debts, welfare payments et al.

I don't know Doug. The loans has been approved, I don't know if it had been used.

While it's still stuck in it's post communist era of refusing to deal with German money in city centre renewal such as on Korfantego in Katowice, where is the money to come from?

I am not sure what you are talking about.
czar Activity: 1 / 143
Joined: 3 Mar 2010 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #13

oopsie daisy, my bad. Poland got an IMF loan of over 20 billions approved in 2009;(.

im not questioning you but if you can source a link to that effect thanks, i find the opposite in the bloomberg report but please people, consider the source, please.
aphrodisiac Activity: 11 / 2,465
Joined: 15 Apr 2009 ♀
 
15 Apr 2010  #14

fair enough I will look for the source.
here is one, it states that Poland have asked, then decided not to use it. My understanding is that it was approved by IMF, therefore I was not wring in stating what I did.

dalje.com/en-economy/poland-no-longer-needs-imf-credit-line/299894

IMF site: imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2009/car041409a.htm
czar Activity: 1 / 143
Joined: 3 Mar 2010 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #15

also i believe 60%+ of British ww2 documents are still secured
and if you think that Germany did not benefit from ww2 your wrong.
but back to topic some people are realized after death.

thanks aphrodisiac
Dougpol  
15 Apr 2010  #16

don't know Doug. The loans has been approved, I don't know if it had been used.

I thought that Kaczynskiwas instrumental in turning down the loan?

A German development company wanted to redevelop Korfantego, downtown of the Spodek.but the City president vetoed the plan when he couldn't get his dirty hands on part of the deal (allegedly).

It's all part of the paranoia regarding under investment from without - so part of the city is just left as a communist ruin. Roll on compulsory purchase - if things are left to PIS inner city councils then Poland is screwed.

I was suggesting that loans cannot be embezzled with ease - state funds can and clearly are.
aphrodisiac Activity: 11 / 2,465
Joined: 15 Apr 2009 ♀
 
15 Apr 2010  #17

I thought that Kaczynskiwas instrumental in turning down the loan?

I don't know that for sure. I don't know the details to be honest.

but the City president vetoed the plan when he couldn't get his dirty hands on part of the deal (allegedly).

That has been happening all over Poland to smaller or lesser degree. I used to work for a development company in Poland (private), so I had a glimpse of how things are done, when it comes to making a deal, in the end it is all about making profits for both parties. Municipal decision makers are known for being corrupted.

Roll on compulsory purchase - if things are left to PIS inner city councils then Poland is screwed.

I don't think such behavior is exclusive to PIS.

I was suggesting that loans cannot be embezzled with ease - state funds can and clearly are.

In that regard you are right, there is more control on how money is spent, however IMF has a really bad reputation for setting up the conditions of repayment (high rates), which has ruined many existing social security system for one (pre- existing condition of IMF), especially in 3rd world countries.
Dougpol  
15 Apr 2010  #18

some people are realized after death.

You don't need to understand much about Polish history to realise that Kaczynski was a clown, and a politician of the worst kind. Walesa meanwhile, might have been a bufoon, but a charismatic and brave one. Where and when did Kaczynski put his lawyers brief down and put his mug head above the parapet? The man had a nasty mouth and himself never spent a single day in prison, yet had the bare-faced cheek to call others up as non-patriots.

Poles are annoying and amusing at best. In Walesa, there is a real life hero staring you in the face, a Nobel Prize Winner, and yet half the country has rubbished him in his own life-time.

Ungrateful mob.You couldn't make it up
aphrodisiac Activity: 11 / 2,465
Joined: 15 Apr 2009 ♀
 
15 Apr 2010  #19

The man had a nasty mouth and himself never spent a single day in prison, yet had the bare-faced cheek to call others up as non-patriots.

true.
Leszek Rzejak Activity: - / 5
Joined: 15 Apr 2010 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #20

Kaczynski's top achievement was his death. Both brothers have introduced as much mess as they possibely could. It is only after his death that we have a chance to start to develop normal relations with Russia.

Leszek
studentstostudents@yahoo.com
aphrodisiac Activity: 11 / 2,465
Joined: 15 Apr 2009 ♀
 
15 Apr 2010  #21

It is only after his death that we have a chance to start to develop normal relations with Russia.

and being perceived in a much different light in general. I don't think that Kaczynski was a good representation of Poland. He was only representing certain circles. While we are at it, what is your take on Tusk?
z_darius Activity: 14 / 3,976
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #22

So what will his legacy be?

A fierce patriot, like millions of Poles, and like many before him, an unremarkable politician.

Lech Kaczynski, with his twin brother Jaroslaw, was a child actor who starred in a movie The Two Who Stole the Moon. After his tragic death death, and obviously unbeknownst to himself, he was cast by Jaroslaw in his, by far, greatest role where he starred in a show The Two Who Stole Wawel (c).

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/7590215/Poles-protest-against-plans-to-bury-Polish-president-in-Wawel-castle.html
Bzibzioh  
15 Apr 2010  #23

"Poles protest against plans to bury Polish president in Wawel castle"

It has been planned that Mr Kaczynski is to be buried in the cathedral crypt in the grounds of Wawel Castle

I hate those stupid Western media, they are bunch of ignorants: he is not going to be buried in Wawel CASTLE but Wawel cathedral. If they can't see the difference, what else they are wrong about?

"in the grounds of Wawel Castle" my ass
z_darius Activity: 14 / 3,976
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #24

z_darius:
"Poles protest against plans to bury Polish president in Wawel castle"

Misquote.
I did not write that
Bzibzioh  
15 Apr 2010  #25

I did not write that

Ok, I changed that.
z_darius Activity: 14 / 3,976
Joined: 18 Oct 2007 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #26

thanks
beta  
15 Apr 2010  #27

Celinski:
From the USA my heart is with you all. United we shall mourn the devastating losses ...

Than you, Carol Celinska.

Poland has not perished yet so long as we still live.
God Bless Poland.
Filios1 Activity: 8 / 1,336
Joined: 13 Nov 2007 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #28

The man had a nasty mouth and himself never spent a single day in prison, yet had the bare-faced cheek to call others up as non-patriots.

Seems as though your tongue are working overtime, my idiot friend, but your brain does not keep up.

In the 1970s Lech Kaczyński was an activist in the pro-democratic anti-Communist movement in Poland, Workers' Defence Committee, as well as the Independent Trade Union movement. In August 1980, he became an adviser to the Inter-Enterprise Strike Committee in the Gdańsk Shipyard and the Solidarity movement. During the martial law introduced by the communists in December, 1981, he was interned as an anti-socialist element. After his release from internment, he returned to trade union activities, becoming a member of the underground Solidarity.

I'd say he had as much right to call others non-patriots for what he did during his life time. Were you even born yet coward? When he was interned by the communists? Why don't you register a username?

Walesa, there is a real life hero staring you in the face, a Nobel Prize Winner, and yet half the country has rubbished him in his own life-time.

Yes, a true hero.

Wałęsa, under the codename "Bolek", is said to have been recruited to pass information to the SB, and was bumped into the top leadership position within Solidarity by other embedded agents of the SB in an attempt to control the movement. His subsequent break from SB control is attributed to a new arrangement Wałęsa made with Reagan/Bush's CIA.

Another, slightly "softer" version of this hypothesis is that Wałęsawas indeed recruited by SB in 1976-1978 when he was jobless and short of money, and he was their secret informer until 1980, but SB lost control over him during the strike in Gdanska Shipyard, so he became the leader of this strike, and later leader of the Solidarity movement simply due to his natural personal leadership skills.

I will keep repeating this to the day I die, Walesa is no more a hero than Kaczynski was. AT least, the latter man stayed honest during his life. Walesa is tarnished, and always will be. He may have made up for what he did in his younger years, but he is certainly not worthy of being seen as a hero, when so many others were worthy of that title during Solidarnosc.

Ungrateful mob.You couldn't make it up

I don't expect you will answer, lying scumbag.
plk123 Activity: 8 / 4,175
Joined: 29 Aug 2007 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #29

Good Polish-Russian relations.

what are you smoking.. that is one thing that definitely didn't happen under his watch.

In Walesa, there is a real life hero staring you in the face, a Nobel Prize Winner, and yet half the country has rubbished him in his own life-time.

Ungrateful mob.You couldn't make it up

thanks, so true.

hypothesis

that is all it is filios.. let it be.. kaczka was nowhere near the stature of Wałęsa.. learn to live with it buddy.. that is the TRUTH!. ha!
mafketis Activity: 17 / 3,733
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 ♂
 
15 Apr 2010  #30

I won't pretend that I was ever a Kaczynski supporter or that I would have voted for him (had I been able). And I disagreed with his policies more often than not.

On the other hand, I do think his primary motivations were always to do what he thought best for the country. There are many politicians (including some whose policies I generally agree with) that I wouldn't say the same about.




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Kaczynski's Legacy
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