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The heroic jump of the 1st Polish Independent Paratrooper Brigade


Airborne
25 Sep 2007 #1
On the 22nd of September 2007 the heroic jump of the 1st Polish Independent Paratrooper Brigade (under the command of Polish Maj. General. S. Sosabowski) was re-enacted at Driel, The Netherlands.

A true salute to the brave men who helped liberating my country, The Netherlands.

On my website: pararesearchteam.com I have posted the Driel article in the update menu. More then 50 pictures of this great tribute to the 1st Independent Polish Airborne Brigade.
Ironside 49 | 10,473
19 Jan 2010 #2
they should have jumped over Warsaw.
Mr Grunwald 22 | 1,635
20 Jan 2010 #3
We all know the story!
At least the Dutch got their freedom :)
jonni 16 | 2,485
28 Mar 2010 #5
Most people here in Poland just get on with life, focussing on today and tomorrow.

Not a day goes by, however, on this forum without someone banging on (often in a nasty way) about perceived geopolitical injustices, seventy, yes - seventy, years ago; long before most of the posters here were born.

Instead of getting a life.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Mar 2010 #6
jonni: Most people here in Poland just get on with life, focussing on today and tomorrow.

Untill you discuss history with them then you'll notice 99.9 percent of literate populace did not move on, of course you're a foreigner and so absolutely ignorant of our view.

jonni: Not a day goes by, however, on this forum without someone banging on about perceived geopolitical injustices, seventy, yes - seventy, years ago.

How about you f*ck off and let us speak about it if we want to? Its our country that was raped to a point beyond recovery not yours, it only goes to show 70 years is a short time and only foreign fuckwits call us to move on, we did but thats not the same as forgetting.
jonni 16 | 2,485
28 Mar 2010 #7
Sokrates: you're a foreigner and so absolutely ignorant of our view.

Actually I might be a citizen later this year...

Sokrates: How about you f*ck off

Showing your true colours.

Sokrates: let us speak

Most of those who 'speak' are in fact Americans and Canadians. Not people in Poland.

Sokrates: Its our country that was raped to a point beyond recovery

Seems to have recovered quite nicely. Under foreign supervision, of course.

Sokrates: not yours,

I don't live anywhere else...

Sokrates: it only goes to show

Hmm. A bit too colloquial for someone in Poland.

Sokrates: 70 years is a short time

You must be quite old then, if 70 years is a short time for you. Most people would consider it a long time.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
28 Mar 2010 #8
Sokrates: it only goes to show 70 years is a short time and only foreign fuckwits call us to move on, we did but thats not the same as forgetting.

you are lying, my sister lives in Poland and this is WHAT she says, so DOES her husband, they work, run their business and never lived abroad.

jonni: Not people in Poland.

look above.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Mar 2010 #9
jonni: Actually I might be a citizen later this year...

Which still doesnt make you Polish, take Sean for example, he's an educated fellow who's been here for a number of years and his general outlook is still completely alien to what you find among the natives.

jonni: Most of those who 'speak' are in fact Americans and Canadians. Not people in Poland.

No? Actually most people who b*tch about what WW2 and Europe did to Poland are Poles, everyone else either doesnt care or wants to forget about it because it might stain their country heroic image.

jonni: Seems to have recovered quite nicely. Under foreign supervision, of course.

How nicely? We're 10-20 years behind the western countries after half a century of drainage by Russia, we do not have true national elites and it'll take another generation to raise them, we lost historical areas of Poland and got German dumps which we had to rebuild from scratch.

We recovered more then anyone else could in such a time with so little resources but we're still behind, we've been betrayed, sold and occupied with a quiet nod of the "allies" and you expect us to take it up the arse and keep smiling?

jonni: You must be quite old then, if 70 years is a short time for you. Most people would consider it a long time.

The consequences of your countries treason still bite us in the arse today, even on the personal level of income, we're poor because of russian occupation and russian occupation happened because the West allowed it, even our politicians are idiots because of WW2.

Our entire elite ended up in Siberia or Katyń, our national hero is an electrician ffs so dont tell me we recovered nicely, we recovered sh*t, not even a tenth of what we had and what we were before WW2.

aphrodisiac: you are lying, my sister lives in Poland and this is WHAT she says, so DOES her husband, they work, run their business and never lived abroad

Dude you have sockpuppet accounts for both men and women, you claim to have friends in every single country around the world, you claim to be Ukrainian, Polish etc, by this time people dont know whether you're a man or a woman you make stuff up so much.

If we were discussing life on Mars you would have a sister bulding a martian colony, how about you shut the **** up you bloody compulsive liar
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
28 Mar 2010 #10
honey, everybody knows that you are a moron whose girlfriend rules in the house, so you come here and bark virtually;) for the lack of better options. Now go on and fetch.......big boy;)
jonni 16 | 2,485
28 Mar 2010 #11
Sokrates: Which still doesnt make you Polish,

Actually it would. Unless you're suggesting that taking US citizenship doesn't make someone American.

Sokrates: most people who b*tch about what WW2 and Europe did to Poland are Poles

If you actually check the posts you'll find that many are American or Canadian.

Sokrates: How nicely? We're 10-20 years behind the western countries after half a century of drainage by Russia, we do not have true national elites and it'll take another generation to raise them, we lost historical areas of Poland and got German dumps which we had to rebuild from scratch.

Hmm. Poland was "behind" the western countries even before partition - post-war recovery, both during the PRL years, with the help of the IMF and since, with inward investment has been fine. Not sure what you mean by "German dumps" - the cities now in West Poland, even with war damage were in a better state than most of the small towns that were lost in the east.

Sokrates: Our entire elite ended up in Siberia or Katyń,

Those who survived would disagree with you. And many of the higher-level functionaries in the post-war government here had held high office before the war.

Sokrates: not even a tenth of what we had and what we were before WW2.

There comes a certain point when fantasy becomes sheer nonsense. Check out the economic statistics about Poland before 1939 and Poland now. Or just have a look at some old maps.

Some idiot once even said to me that the area I live in is so scuzzy looking because all the beautiful buildings, palaces, theatres that were there had been destroyed. Except according to every map, there was just farmland here until the 1960s.
Ironside 49 | 10,473
28 Mar 2010 #12
jonni: Seems to have recovered quite nicely.

Really its news to me !?

jonni: Under foreign supervision, of course.

ah! you mean gays pride parade ?!L:D

jonni: Most people here in Poland just get on with life, focussing on today and tomorrow.

most people everywhere do just that ........I consider myself elite :)

jonni: Not a day goes by, however, on this forum without someone banging on

that's the joys and sorrows of forums, people are talking about subjects, often not discussed in real life ...

jonni: seventy, yes - seventy, years ago; long before most of the posters here were born.

because consequences of it are alive today ?
jonni 16 | 2,485
28 Mar 2010 #13
A strange post. You seem to be saying that Poland hasn't recovered, that the Parada Równości is organised under foreign supervision (which it most emphatically isn't - it is a Polish thing), that you consider yourself "elite", just a few posts after writing obscenities, and that the consequences of the WWII are still alive which would be a surprise for most people here.

In fact, most people here in 21st century Poland (and if you're abroad, I suggest you visit) just get on with life, and do so very nicely. Without ever dwelling on the bad things of history.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Mar 2010 #14
jonni: Actually it would. Unless you're suggesting that taking US citizenship doesn't make someone American.

No it makes you a citizen not a national, US never had a nation in any but legal sense.

jonni: Hmm. Poland was "behind" the western countries even before partition

In what way? Last i checked Poland was to become a first true democracy in Europe and partitions happened exactly to stop that rapid progress that was frightening the despotic powers around Poland.

In 1830 for example Kingdom of Poland (which is about 40% of the pre-partition territory) constituted 30% of all Russian Empires industry, thats huge for a "backward" country.

jonni: post-war recovery, both during the PRL years

How did the West help Poland during the PRL years please?

jonni: Not sure what you mean by "German dumps" - the cities now in West Poland, even with war damage were in a better state than most of the small towns that were lost in the east.

Thats the problem with you, you're an ignorant idiot, Lwów was intact, Vilinus was relatively intact, at the same time Wrocław for example was destroyed in 85%, that beatifull town square thats here today? Its been rebuilt from scratch, the entire recovered territories were an absolute ruin while our eastern provinces were quite intact and held a large part of our industry (Lwów).

jonni: Those who survived would disagree with you. And many of the higher-level functionaries in the post-war government here had held high office before the war.

Again idiotic rubbish on your part, want a list of accomplished mathematicians who died/fled vs those who stayed as an example? Poland lost over 90% of its elites.

jonni: There comes a certain point when fantasy becomes sheer nonsense. Check out the economic statistics about Poland before 1939 and Poland now. Or just have a look at some old maps.

You mean that same Poland that had 9% annual GDP growth in 1937, 11% in 38 and 12.5% by September 1939?

That same Poland that despite its severe underdevelopment was the fastest growing economy in Europe? (Pretty much like today just a lot faster and with only home grown funds).

Your point being?

jonni: Some idiot once even said to me that the area I live in is so scuzzy looking because all the beautiful buildings, palaces, theatres that were there had been destroyed. Except according to every map, there was just farmland here until the 1960s.

How about we stop with made up examples, you've been in my Warsaw thread so we both know how much Poland lost, Ukraine and Belarus have always been turdholes with the only serious developments ever done by Poles but Poland proper is a 1000 years old country bled dry from its heritage.
jonni 16 | 2,485
28 Mar 2010 #15
Sokrates: No it makes you a citizen not a national, US never had a nation in any but legal sense.

The accepted definition of nationality suggests otherwise. But you know that already.

Sokrates: In what way? Last i checked Poland was to become a first true democracy in Europe and partitions happened exactly to stop that rapid progress that was frightening the despotic powers around Poland.

In 1830 for example Kingdom of Poland (which is about 40% of the pre-partition territory) constituted 30% of all Russian Empires industry, thats huge for a "backward" country.

Read Adam Zamoyski's excellent book on the matter.

Sokrates: How did the West help Poland during the PRL years please?

Read the post properly. Or maybe you're too young to remember the IMF loan, still outstanding.

Sokrates: Again idiotic rubbish on your part

Again Ad Hominem insults. I repeat, many post-war functionaries at wice-minister level or above had held office prior to 1939.

Sokrates: You mean that same Poland that had 9% annual GDP growth in 1937, 11% in 38 and 12.5% by September 1939?

No. Check out the unemployment and inflation statistics for the 20 years that the second republic lasted. The figures are available on the internet.

Sokrates: That same Poland that despite its severe underdevelopment was the fastest growing economy in Europe? (Pretty much like today just a lot faster and with only home grown funds).

Growing from zero, and definitely not with "only home grown funds". Unless you know otherwise.

Sokrates: How about we stop with made up examples

Made up? It's my life, where I live. Hardly "made up"

Sokrates: Ukraine and Belarus have always been turdholes

More coarse language. You seem to like it.

Sokrates: Ukraine and Belarus

Your point being?
TheOther 6 | 3,821
28 Mar 2010 #16
Sokrates: the entire recovered territories

Since when are you using terms that were invented by the Polish communists for propaganda purposes? I thought you hate those guys... :)

Sokrates: and got German dumps

Which Poland was more than happy to annex...
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Mar 2010 #17
TheOther: Since when are you using terms that were invented by the Polish communists for propaganda purposes? I thought you hate those guys... :)

Force of habit dont assign any meaning to it, i repeatedly admitted that Lower Silesia is historically far more German then Polish.

TheOther: Which Poland was more than happy to annex...

Given that we just lost 20% of our territory with some national heartlands like Lwów and here's this nation that just killed off 1/5th of our people i'd say we were fully justified in annexing these territories.

Another thing is that Germans drone over how we got their mighty beatifull cities and purposefully omit the fact that the entire region was a massive cratered moonscape and if you get to enjoy wonders of German architecture today its because the Poles rebuilt it, usually from scratch.

Bratwurst Boy: Hey!

Come on BB after the frontline went through the region the place was reduced to ruins gonna find you a before and after folder i saved from my discussion with a German buddy about how we inherited the "rich regions".

jonni: The accepted definition of nationality suggests otherwise. But you know that already.

Which one?:) There's enough definitions to justify both my point and yours, the point of the point is however that you're not born into polish culture, habits or way of life being a citizen is quite different then being a native.

jonni: Growing from zero, and definitely not with "only home grown funds". Unless you know otherwise.

Home grown economy only, there was no significant outside investment prior to 1936 unless you know some alternative history in which there was one?

Growing from zero is also not the fault of Poles, the frontline ravaged Poland whereas say Germany had all of its industry intact post WW1, the fact that Polish economy grew 320% from 1919 to 1939 is testament to the skill and organisation qualities of the Poles, i can name ten countries off the bat who with same resources couldnt do it, some of them still cant.

jonni: Your point being?

My point being that Poland was a first world culture and civilisation forcefully dragged to a status of a third world country like Ukraine or Belarus via wars and decisions of foreign powers.

I dont want compensation, unlike Jews i dont want anyone to apologise to me or my country but i do want to ***** and quite frankly i feel Europe owes us patience in our *****ing, if we want to bytch and moan about how we got crapped all over the West needs to put up with it since it owes us this particular thing, not money, not apologies but acceptance that we have a burden we have to roll with and its a big one.
TheOther 6 | 3,821
28 Mar 2010 #18
Sokrates: i'd say we were fully justified in annexing these territories.

To be fair: at first the Polish government was hesitant to take the German territories. They annexed it only after it was made clear to them that Stalin wouldn't give back the Polish lands in the east, AFAIK.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Mar 2010 #19
Of course, you still had to put people somewhere and its easier to rebuild destroyed cities, even from scratch rather then erect new ones.

Today we discuss it as political issues but back then Poland had over four milion homeless people and winter was coming, taking German homes wasnt a matter of retribution but a matter of survival, even as late as 1947 there were families living in makeshift barracks waiting for homes to be rebuilt or city districts to be de-mined.
Ironside 49 | 10,473
28 Mar 2010 #20
jonni: You seem to be saying that Poland hasn't recovered,

Well, not in a way she could recover if after 1945 she was left alone !

jonni: that the Parada Równości is organised under foreign supervision

I wouldn't be so sure .....but even if you are right, foreign supervision is not what Poland needs,PC and all this BS!
I responded like this because you seemes to be saying that Poland need foreign supervision to recover and grow!Which is an insult even if veiled!

jonni: just a few posts after writing obscenities,

the language is a tool and I'm using all my tools, some are suited better to do the job!

jonni: that the consequences of the WWII are still alive which would be a surprise for most people here.

well, members of communist secret police and communist politicians are still alive and active in Poland aren't they ? So, in this way consequences of the WWII are still alive - and that only one aspect of the issue!

jonni: most people

As I said most people everywhere do the same ......it doesn't mean I'm wrong!
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,650
28 Mar 2010 #21
I "hey'ed" the "dump" part....but I agree with what Sok tries to say.
The West to often forgets that they have decades of rebuilding and reconciliation already behind them, some patience is the least the East deserves.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
28 Mar 2010 #22
Instead of getting a life.

Well, there is also hardly a day without the most famous (140 m^2) barn being mentioned.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
28 Mar 2010 #23
I get jonni's point very well and agree with him.

Very few really learn from the past which, in large part, is the point. As the new generation, we can still hope for change.
time means 5 | 1,310
28 Mar 2010 #24
Grzegorz_: most famous (140 m^2) barn being mentioned.

WTF?
jonni 16 | 2,485
28 Mar 2010 #25
Grzegorz_: Well, there is also hardly a day without the most famous (140 m^2) barn being mentioned.

You certainly keep mentioning it.

Most people might think such things are best left to historians and researchers. Except that when they present conclusions (in the matter you keep mentioning) any armchair warrior who feels it doesn't fit into their weltanschaung disagrees with the jerk of a knee.
grubas 12 | 1,391
28 Mar 2010 #26
youtube.com/watch?v=aNFPMYr5dg8
Salut to Dutch people.
time means 5 | 1,310
28 Mar 2010 #27
jonni: You certainly keep mentioning it.

What barn is he on about jonni?
frd 7 | 1,399
28 Mar 2010 #28
time means: What barn is he on about jonni?

Jedwabne's barn in which my lovely Polish people burnt alive many Jews. There's a big commotion once a year about it because of somebody's releasing a book, or somebody's else protesting.

Anyways the whole "yet another ww2 Poland betrayed" thread is pointless. No foreigner will ever agree and will boldly and ironicly comment about how we are supposed to move on adding sarcastic remarks and defending his own "land". And no Pole will ever admit to living in the past with his point of view on that topic, he'll stubornly defend his country's deeds. Sweeping aside those few who won't fit in that bracket.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
28 Mar 2010 #29
jonni: You certainly keep mentioning it.

Sometimes I do, fitting 1600 people into a 140 m^2 barn is no a small achievement, don't you think ?

frd: in which my lovely Polish people

We love you too.
time means 5 | 1,310
28 Mar 2010 #30
Thanks frd. I have never heard of it but will take a look.


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