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German Traitor And Polish Pig


ender 5 | 398
9 Jun 2011 #1
Film Forbidden love - the story of Bronia and Gerhard

Shocking record of penalized and humiliated love between a 16 - Polish and 19-year-old Silesian. In 1941 someone recorded the entire process: village community, children from Hitlerjugend, the Gestapo lead Bronka and Gerhard, shave their heads, leaving only the pig tails, make them burn their hair. She is wearing a sack and a plate with inscription: "I'm Polish pig", his says: "I ​​am a traitor to the German nation".
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 Jun 2011 #2
Whats the point of this vid Ender? Also said Gerhard is not a Silesian he's a German and i smell a cheap provocation.
Palivec - | 380
9 Jun 2011 #3
You probably won't believe this, but before 1945 Germans from Silesia were Silesians. Shocking, I know...
OP ender 5 | 398
9 Jun 2011 #4
I haven't seen it till today. Is it provocation? Yes. I'm not sure about the price. Obviously it's forbidden in Germany so BB may educate himself here.

You probably won't believe this, but before 1945 Germans from Silesia were Silesians.

No he is pointing to German version with different names and man nationality. I wouldn't trust Germans anyway.


JonnyM 11 | 2,621
9 Jun 2011 #5
Obviously it's forbidden in Germany

Maybe a source for that?

No?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,515
9 Jun 2011 #6
Yes. I'm not sure about the price. Obviously it's forbidden in Germany so BB may educate himself here.

Wot???

Actually my first thought was about the trials of the shaven women in France and Holland, punished for their love for german soldiers....
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 Jun 2011 #7
You probably won't believe this, but before 1945 Germans from Silesia were Silesians. Shocking, I know...

Nope, Silesians are a distinct ethnic group thats about 100.000 large, possibly smaller, everyone else is just an ihhabitant of Silesia, thats like calling US citizen a native american.

You're, as always excused for your ignorance.

I haven't seen it till today. Is it provocation? Yes.

So whats the point of it? Pretty much every Pole knows Germans are f*cked up but we have to learn and get along, there's money to be made and a common future to be built, there wont be any love anytime soon but it'll come given time.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
9 Jun 2011 #8
You know that in France in 1944 prostitutes were not punished for their "relations" with Germans? Because it was considered they were working.
Besides of that, I wonder what the intention is of the OP? He does not know that this was Germany...

Nope, Silesians are a distinct ethnic group thats about 100.000 large, possibly smaller, everyone else is just an ihhabitant of Silesia, thats like calling US citizen a native american.

That is because all Germans in Silesia in 1945 were 1. murdered 2.murdered during "evacuations" to the West 3. murdered in ex-Nazi concentrations camps 4. deported to Siberia 5. Pretended to be Polish to save their skin.

Nemmersdorf was not a detail, it was routine.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
9 Jun 2011 #9
the Gestapo lead Bronka and Gerhard, shave their heads, leaving only the pig tails, make them burn their hair. She is wearing a sack and a plate with inscription: "I'm Polish pig", his says: "I ​​am a traitor to the German nation".

I could sort of understand if it was stupid teenagers pulling something like that, but for adults to do that to them, messed up in the head.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 Jun 2011 #10
That is because all Germans in Silesia in 1945 were 1. murdered 2.murdered during "evacuations" to the West 3. murdered in ex-Nazi concentrations camps 4. deported to Siberia 5. Pretended to be Polish to save their skin.

And your point is?

I could sort of understand if it was stupid teenagers pulling something like that, but for adults to do that to them, messed up in the head.

Who do you think ran Wechrmacht, Gestapo, SS, NSDAP etc, teenagers?
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
9 Jun 2011 #11
Those were very bad days ... my grandfather's elder brother had a German friend who betrayed him and got him killed. That person used to be close to our family in those times.

Germans had something of a "supremacist" idea going along in their head. They felt invincible. In any case, Germany was never really known for its love or heart ... its known for machines, mechanical stuff...

At best, I do agree, we have to move forward, and cannot really afford to keep old days alive. The best is to remember the experiences and be more careful next time ...
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
9 Jun 2011 #12
Who do you think ran Wechrmacht, Gestapo, SS, NSDAP etc, teenagers?

Uh that's what i said. I know it was adults that's why i dont understand their actions, they should be smarter and more humane.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
9 Jun 2011 #14
Uh that's what i said. I know it was adults that's why i dont understand their actions, they should be smarter and more humane.

Even today Germans, our BB included believe themselves to be a superior species.
pammycat - | 16
9 Jun 2011 #15
No.

This doesn't really surprise me. Germany (unlike Poland) doesn't ban things.
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
9 Jun 2011 #16
On the other hand, the times were indeed cruel. My Dad was liberated in West Germany by the English in 1945 from slavery work. After short service in the Auxilliary Forces, he was demobilized and became a Displaced Person. DP's were stationed in barracks and if I remember his stories, also in German houses. My Dad became a foreman and his task was also maintaining peace and good conduct among other DPs.

He told me he had been experiencing big problems with maintaining order among the crowd of multi-national mix of people demoralized during the war. For example, favourite pastime of some group of those people was humiliating German women by painting them with shoe polish so those poor creatures were resembling Negroes and were jeered at. My Dad handled it by dissolving the group and merging individuals of that group with more peaceful crowd.

Many things used to happen.
Palivec - | 380
9 Jun 2011 #17
Yes, a culture that developed at the intersection between the Polish, German and Czech culture is the same as American natives, lol.
Todays Silesians are simply the rest of a cultural-historical process in Silesia that was eradicated after 1945.
Daisy 3 | 1,227
9 Jun 2011 #18
The war ended over 65 years ago, long before any of us were born. What's the point in all those people dieing while fighting for peace when all this hatred continues among people who weren't even born then.

My Dad told me something only the other day. Dad was a submariner, not during the war, long after. However, about 15 years ago Dad got a phone call from the steward of the Naval association club, who like Dad was also an ex submariner. He said to Dad "Can you get down here now, there's someone I want you to meet" When Dad arrived an ex U-boatman was there, he was on holiday from Germany and had walked into the Naval association club introduced himself and said he would like to meet some British submariners, so the steward phoned around every submariner he knew, some of them also having served during the war. The old U boatman was the third and last survivor of a U-boat that had been torpedoed many stories were swapped between the old man and the British submariners who had served during the war, my Dad had many stories from his father who was in the Navy during the war. These men had fought each other at sea during the war, yet in peacetime they drank together and shared stories.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
9 Jun 2011 #19
These men

The Taliban once were America's best friend ... nowadays its not unheard that some of them after surrendering sit and laugh at each other too ... doesn't mean that their hands are washed from the murders they committed to the thousands of civilians who are not soldiers.

Its about the ordinary everyday people, they are the ones who suffer the most - unreasonably. However, the soldiers can gather and start laughing and drinking, sharing stories about how he attacked and he defended and they attacked or they defended ... the ones who were mere victims of this unholy mess remain in the graves and their families being uprooted or changed forever. Many things never recovered after the war ... many families were completely finished or totally (and unwanted) changed forever.

Yes, the was is very old now, but nothing is so old that it can be completely erased. There are lessons to be learned ... peace is the only solution, accepted - but lessons are to be learned ... the Germans have their way of life, their mentality, their approach to matters ... while we have ours. The best is to understand each other and live/trade as peacefully as possible ... while being aware and alert at the same time.
Daisy 3 | 1,227
9 Jun 2011 #20
Those men had families too. They left wives and children behind, not knowing if they would ever see them again, they went to defend theirs and other families. I think you've watched too many Hollywood movies, that might be how Tom Cruise et al., portray war veterens, Hollywood is nothing like the real thing.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
9 Jun 2011 #21
These men had fought each other at sea during the war, yet in peacetime they drank together and shared stories.

I don't mean to stir the pot Daisy but your heartwarming tale of buried hatchett camaraderie can be explained by the fact that it took place between submariners from nations with Germanic roots who hadn't been locked in a brutal struggle unto the death for one thousand years like Poles and Germans have been. This is a Polish discussion forum and the sickening dehumanization of Poles that Germans perpetrated in WW2, as is evinced by the text of the sign Bronia was forced to wear, was not done by the Germans to the British.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
9 Jun 2011 #22
it took place between submariners from nations with Germanic roots

Not all British people have 'Germanic roots' - they can just as easily have Irish roots only. It wouldn't make much difference either way, since the Anglo-Saxon invasions were around 40 generations ago. The British don't feel some sort of weird affinity to the Germans.

who hadn't been locked in a brutal struggle unto the death for one thousand years like Poles and Germans have been.

WFT?? There are plenty of instances of Germans and Poles co-operating over the years. Over the centuries, during good times and bad, and today. How long have you actually lived in Poland? Or if you don't live here, how many times have you visited? Ever?
sobieski 107 | 2,128
9 Jun 2011 #23
Even today Germans, our BB included believe themselves to be a superior species.

As compared to you from the namiotist type who think all smolenkists are born saints?
Actually I think Germany is a sound nation.
delphiandomine 83 | 18,095
10 Jun 2011 #24
This is a Polish discussion forum and the sickening dehumanization of Poles that Germans perpetrated in WW2, as is evinced by the text of the sign Bronia was forced to wear, was not done by the Germans to the British.

No, just the systematic destruction of Dresden, as well as the kangaroo trials at Nuremburg. Nothing sickening, though. I mean, it's not like the Poles ever killed anyone just for being of a different ethnicity, either.

So - do you speak Polish? Have you ever visited? What exactly do you know about Polish-German relations?
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
10 Jun 2011 #25
No, just the systematic destruction of Dresden, as well as the kangaroo trials at Nuremburg

The former was done by British bombers to the Germans and the latter were done by the Allies to prosecute war criminals. I only claimed the Germans didn't dehumanize the British as they did the Poles as this thread shows.

I mean, it's not like the Poles ever killed anyone just for being of a different ethnicity

This thread is not about Poles murdering different ethnicities. If you wish discuss such events start a new one about them.

So - do you speak Polish?

This is the English language section of the forum.

Have you ever visited?

This thread is about events in Poland that occurred long before I was born. Have you ever gone back in time?

What exactly do you know about Polish-German relations?

I have read several books written on the subject by historians as well as numerous works of fiction that also deal with the subject, such as Gunter Grass's Danzig trilogy. I think I see your problem Delphiandomine. You resent Polish-Americans posting on this forum because we do not live in Poland as you do. I am surprized you cannot hear us laughing at your pettiness despite our geographical distance from Poland, because we Polish-Americans are laughing very loudly at you- an uptight clown that wants a medal for living in Poland.
Bzibzioh
10 Jun 2011 #26
Actually I think Germany is a sound nation.

As we can see from the above documentary - not so much. Definitely not Germany's proudest moment in history.

Why all you Brits, and one confused Dutch, have such a problem to see and discuss Germany at their lowest point? Look at this thread; you are all talking about Dresden, Anglo-Saxon roots, French prostitutes, getting petty personal with other posters, Silesia and what not, anything but the sad and tragic story of two teenagers entangled in insanity of the war.

Shocking record of penalized and humiliated love between a 16 - Polish and 19-year-old Silesian.

I watched the whole documentary and I didn't hear anything about him being Silesian. It was said that he was German. She was a forced laborer. I wonder what happened to her, I guess she was killed.
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
10 Jun 2011 #27
insanity of the war

The point is not Germany, the point is the inhuman system. At about the same time, atrocities were committed by Soviets on all nations composing Soviet Union. Saying Soviets were "Russian" or "Ukrainian" or "Georgian" would be at least funny. Soviets were Soviets, criminal system. Nazi were Nazi, criminal system. Criminal inhuman system is not related to a specific nation.

By condemning a nation (instead of system), you Bzibzioh follow the way of thinking of Adolf.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
10 Jun 2011 #28
Nazism was not related to the German nation.... Are you nuts? The German nation elected the Nazis. What did the placard Gerhard was forced to wear say? Do you honestly believe all those gawkers watching he and Bronia being shorn and humiliated were without exception members of the Nazi party? Why do so many posters on this thread feel the need to defend the German nation's "soundness" despite having watched the original post's video? Saying that World War Two was a low point for the German nation is not Hitlerism but the condemation of Hitlerism and yes it is the deserved condemnation of the nation that embraced Hitlerism.
Antek_Stalich 5 | 997
10 Jun 2011 #29
The German nation was lured by attractive nationalist/racist idea, was made to believe them shall rule the world, effectively falling in mass madness that led to all those events. In the same era, different nations of former Russian empire were lured by attractive communist idea promising them universal happiness, effectively falling in mass madness that cost lives of million people. Same in China, same in any other country where some poisonous idea lured greater part of a nation.

Bzibzioh, by condemning the German nation (instead of the poisonous Nazi idea), falls into the same mental track as Germans fell lured by Hitler. Thinking that some nation is generic bad is nothing else as promoting nationalism/racism, the curse of the 20th century. Czas wyjąć belkę z własnego oka (I do not know how this Bible text translates to English).

Not without the reasons, the message of Polish Episcopate to German Episcopate of 1966 was: "We forgive and ask for forgiveness".

I was born well after WWII. I know the stories told me by my Dad and Mum. He suffering Nazi oppression, she suffering Soviet oppression. I do not forget it, because forgetting the history is a sin -- and the greatest sin is forgetting the history to make the same mistakes again. Yet, German people never did any personal harm to me, on contrary, they helped me many times. Yet, I lost my youth in a country ruled by Soviet-driven commies and I won't forget that.

All this nationalist talk, Des Essientes, makes the whole effort of Germans to settle accounts with their own history futile. Because you or Bzibzioh have not learned a bit on the history.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
10 Jun 2011 #30
Those men had families too.

But they still killed others who also had families.... specially civilians who had no intention to attack them. This makes them brutal and inhuman. There is a documentary on Hitler's humane side ... it doesn't erase his inhumanity and his brutality.

Those people specially will never be forgiven or forgotten throughout time ... whether its 65 years or 650 years or 6500 years. Simple.

For now, as I said, we have a different relationship with modern day Germany, and every sane person would wish for it to prosper, however definitely being careful and alert - not to forget past experiences on how the German mind works. They historically have less emotions and more machines in themselves. Maybe its good for innovation and economy? ... so we can cooperate there. But beyond that, we have different opinions to life, we always did ... and Poles would like to secure theirs.

He suffering Nazi oppression, she suffering Soviet oppression. I do not forget it, because forgetting the history is a sin

You know, for some of who are living in USA or really disillusioned ... they will not understand how the German nation really went into a complete Supremacist mode ... . Its almost as though they want to remove or erase the idea. It is like denying there ever was a holocaust. Its like kicking all those graves of people killed or tortured to death ... all those families ruined, all those women who were raped. People who were humiliated ...

True, as I said above, we should renovate our relationship with Germany, and we are doing so in Poland. However, it is not possible to remain oblivious and forget what happened ... it is dangerous too. Experiences are precious. We suffered it.

As for Soviet Oppression ... my family were personally no victims in large scale, and we even survived in a clever way. However, Katyn Massacre cannot be erased from the Polish minds, over which there are many more incidents.

The best is to be careful, alert and look forward to peace in a sustainable manner. Peace cannot sustain if you cannot ensure its future through using the experiences in the past.


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