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Friedrich Nietzsche - Polish or German ?


Julekcg 1 | 35    
  17 Oct 2008  #1
Lukasz, you will be banned again if you register another account.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche

Friedrich Nietzsche about himself:

Even by virtue of my descent, I am granted an eye beyond all merely local, merely nationally conditioned perspectives; it is not difficult for me to be a "good European." On the other hand, I am perhaps more German than present-day Germans, mere citizens of the German Reich, could possibly be-I, the last anti-political German. And yet my ancestors were Polish noblemen: I have many racial instincts in my body from that source-who knows? [...] When I consider how often I am addressed as a Pole when I travel, even by Poles themselves, and how rarely I am taken for a German, it might seem that I have been merely externally sprinkled with what is German.

"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood."

Is he Polish or German ?
OP Julekcg 1 | 35    
  17 Oct 2008  #3
Why you consider him Polish ?
OP Julekcg 1 | 35    
  17 Oct 2008  #5
His own choice made him Polish ? Maybe we should use his grandfather name Niecki ?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
  17 Oct 2008  #6
Well...isn't that the main argument you use with Kopernikus?
This: "he fighted against the Teutonic Order, he chose the polish side = full blooded Pole" ?

I wonder why you people aren't claiming him too...

PS: I would like to know more about his "polish noble ancestors"...I can't seem to find anything about them!
southern 76 | 7,106    
17 Oct 2008  #7
Is he Polish or German ?

He is too verruckt to be a German.He didn't like Germans for sure.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
  17 Oct 2008  #8
He didn't like Germans for sure.

Yup...and Kopernikus was black! :)

Are you having fun today southern?

Interesting info:

...
There were giants in Poland in the time of my forefathers." He wrote a tract with the French title L'Origine de la famille de Nietzsche and presented the manuscript to his sister, as a document to be treasured and held sacred.She tells us that he was fond of maintaining that the Nietzsches had suffered greatly and fallen from vast grandeur for their opinions, religious and political. He had no proof of this, but it pleased him to think so....

It seems there were no polish nobleman in his ancestry (but it pleased him to think so)..:)
southern 76 | 7,106    
  17 Oct 2008  #9
He didn't like Germans for sure.

This is true.He made comments like ''Marx's sentence was too clever to have been written by a German'',or ''german mind is deep in beer''.

France at that time was full of polish princes.There was the theory that 10% or more of the polish population were noblemen.

and Kopernikus was black! :)

I told this for fun to support the panafrican theory that all important ancient philosophers like Socrates,Plato, etc were blacks who incidentally lost their colour.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
  17 Oct 2008  #10
This is true.He made comments like ''Marx's sentence was too clever to have been written by a German'',or ''german mind is deep in beer''.

He....one must wonder why then he admired Schopenhauer, was friend of Wagner and served in the Franco-Prussian war then etc...I doubt he could have become what he was outside of german schools, german universities, Germany, as he was soaked in german culture, a child of it!

These a bit bitter quotes might have stemmed from some disappointment with his brethren because of that:

In 1883 he tried and failed to obtain a lecturing post at the University of Leipzig. It was made clear to him that, in view of the attitude towards Christianity and the concept of God expressed in Zarathustra, he had become in effect unemployable at any German University.

OP Julekcg 1 | 35    
  17 Oct 2008  #11
Well ... you don't believe in his Polish ancestry. I think it is very possible that he had Polish forefathers.

If we assume that you are right. There is this kind of people inside German society who hate Germany and simple prefere to be Polish. In battle of Gurnwald German comander changed side. German citizens were making pro Polish uprises.

It is very interesting phenomen.

Finaly, without looking on "blood" was he Polish or German ?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
  17 Oct 2008  #12
Poles making jokes and talking badly of Poland....do you think they hate Poland or are they just disappointed?
I think maybe in Nietzsches time Poland was different and had a different standing...I can't think of any German of today who would wish to be polish, sorry...

I don't know actually what you want to say with all that? Do you think this Commander in this battle (I've never heard of him btw) hated his people?

What's your problem? Do you try to be a 150percent Pole due your family's german heritage???

German citizens were making pro Polish uprises.
It is very interesting phenomen.

Is it?
Is it uncomprehendable for a "true Pole" to stand by Germans if he thinks it's the right thing to do?
Who is the blind nationalist and hater here? Are the Germans the good guys in truth?

Hello Luki! :):):)
OP Julekcg 1 | 35    
  17 Oct 2008  #13
Lukasz, you will be banned again if you register another account.

I don't know what are you talking about.

Modern Germany isn't 3rd Reich or Teutonic Order that's the difference.

He considered himself Pole and thought that Poles were right he didn't hate his people.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
  17 Oct 2008  #14
He considered himself Pole and thought that Poles were right he didn't hate his people.

Then why did he go to the battle on the Orders side in the first place?
I mean this decision to "be polish" came abit suddenly, didn't it?
McCoy 27 | 1,283    
17 Oct 2008  #15
definitely Nietzsche was a Pole :)
Marek 4 | 867    
17 Oct 2008  #16
If only to butt in once again. The question thread might as easily read: Immanual Kant - Scottish or German?

The man's own mother traced much of her ancestry to Scots Presbyterians who settled in German long ago, though Kant himself was born, bred and, as far as we know, NEVER LEFT, Koenigsberg, then quite definitely 100% German!!!

Is he more German than Scots to us, merely on account of the fact that his father's name is German, and he never took his mother's maiden name, probably of Gallic origin??

Seems a double standard, doesn't it?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
  17 Oct 2008  #17
Well...the Jews claim Einstein for themselves only too even as he was a product of german culture, of german education, of german science....but would he also have become what he was if he had been stuck in some eastern european shtetl??? Highly doubtful!

Maybe that is a criteria! If a Kant's scottish culture and education had made him what he was or Nietzsche's Poles had helped him to think some more we could agree that Scotland or Poland had a more, a better claim...but as with Kopernikus it is a fact that it was german culture, german teachings which shaped them, made their careers possible in the first place. Read their biographies and you will find that most of their contacts, their teachers, their friends were germans.

When an American today wins the Nobel prize, what do I care if he has german roots when his whole life, his education, his culture is totally american? I would never claim him!
Del boy 20 | 255    
17 Oct 2008  #18
what about Bronislaw Malinowski? british culture?, british education?, british science?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malinowski
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumplowicz

Is he was a Jew, a Pole or an Austrian?
His family supported Polish January uprising. He was rejected to get Ph.D degree in Jagiellonian University, so he went to Graz Austria. Who he was? hmm?
Del boy 20 | 255    
17 Oct 2008  #20
be more precise
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
  17 Oct 2008  #21
Who me??? You brought them on! I never heard of them...
Filios1 8 | 1,336    
  17 Oct 2008  #22
I never heard of them...

Of course you havn't. Why would German schools teach their good German students about famous Poles?

can't think of any German of today who would wish to be polish, sorry

I believe this goes both ways....

I don't know what are you talking about.

Lukasz? I knew it was you, bracie.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
17 Oct 2008  #23
Of course you havn't. Why would German schools teach their good German students about famous Poles?

But they do in greek schools? :):):)

I believe this goes both ways....

Enough are coming over...
Filios1 8 | 1,336    
17 Oct 2008  #24
Enough are coming over...

You would truly be lying to yourself if you think thats the reason WHY they are coming....
David_18 69 | 987    
17 Oct 2008  #25
It is amusing to see you people argue about this matter. I hope you all know that Polish and german people have been mixing with each other for over 1000+ years, just because a person is born in Poland/germany dosen't mean he is Polish nore german, he is problably a mix between the countries. Kinda logic dont you think?

@Bratwurst Boy

Did you know that Berlin was an slavic settlement from the beginning, and that both the Chancellery of the Reich and the Reichspalast and aloot of other properties were owned by the Polish nobilty in Berlin before ww2, hurts doesn't it?
Filios1 8 | 1,336    
17 Oct 2008  #26
Polish and german people have been mixing with each other for over 1000+ years,

This is true for the western most provinces of Poland, yes. But as much as everyone likes to believe that there was constant mixing of blood, this is not true. The greatest % of Poles throughout Polands history have always been peasants, and it is no great leap of faith to say that peasants very rarely went outside their own zone of comfort to marry.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
  17 Oct 2008  #27
@Bratwurst Boy

Did you know that Berlin was an slavic settlement from the beginning, and that both the Chancellery of the Reich and the Reichspalast and aloot of other properties were owned by the Polish nobilty in Berlin before ww2, hurts doesn't it?

Erm...I should be hurt? Why?
Berlin is a wonderful city, was even more so before the war destroyed so much!
I can't fault Poles for coming over, wanting to live here...they do that for millenia now...*shrugs* :):):)
Filios1 8 | 1,336    
17 Oct 2008  #28
before the war destroyed so much!

It got what was coming to it...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,395    
17 Oct 2008  #29
Well...we rebuild to the most part her former glory!
Now it get's even better with the rebuilding of the old city castle in the town center....:)
Filios1 8 | 1,336    
17 Oct 2008  #30
At least the allies left a part of Berlin standing, enough to take forward. Warsaw was leveled 100% to the ground thanks to the Gerries.



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