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Polish flag over the Reichstag first?


guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #32
Yep, the times are changing. Even the war movies are getting more and more realistic these days.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #33
180,000 Polish soldiers had took part in the final drive on Berlin

Polish 1st and 2nd Army fought in the most important battle of WWII Berlin, yet in the west it's never talked about only some bs that Poland was defeated in 2 weeks in September.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #34
only some bs that Poland was defeated in 2 weeks in September.

2 weeks is a little exaggerated

secondworldwar.co.uk/dates.html
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #35
yet in the west it's never talked about only some bs that Poland was defeated in 2 weeks in September.

That would be because Poland performed far better then the Belgian, Dutch, French and British armies combined in that it actually won quite a few large battles in its campaign.

Western european historiography about WW2 amounts to a big fat lie, especially when concerning Poland.

Apropos...interesting link:
A judgement about who was best in WWII, from Russians no less! ;)

BB of course the Russians wont say "by the end of the war we had six milion badasses, so much equipment we didnt know what to do with it and all of it good, against us were old men and boys shitting their pants".

Gloryfying Germany as an opponent adds to russian sense of achievement, others try to diminish the russian effort by calling this "human wave" thingy.

Hard facts are Russians invented some of the tactics we all use today, by 1944 they were ahead of Germany in all aspects including the quality of first echelon troops.

German achievements are shown as sensationalist but the truth is a bit different, western armies sucked hard nuts in all departments and in the east there was the enviorment for protracted defence.

EDIT.

Just as i thought the article is an anti-communist one, now wonder we get "RUSSIANS R HUMAN WAVE FAGZ!!!!!1111"
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #36
The French had an army larger than the Germans and help from the British who sent most of it's armor with the Expeditionary Force and lasted and month a half, we fought the Germans and Soviets alone for a month i'd say we did well.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #37
Gloryfying Germany as an opponent adds to russian sense of achievement, others try to diminish the russian effort by calling this "human wave" thingy.

Well...they managed to hold back with their "glorifying" for most of the time...I'm not used to reading such statements!

I rather think that was gulag-worthy only a few years back...

And of course it can't come from communists...we all know what pathological liars commies are!
How come you would rather believe commie propaganda in this regard???

Accept it Sok...we woz best! You heard it from Russians! ;)
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #38
Are there any documentary films about the Battle of Bautzen in which the Polish 5th Infantry Division and 16th Tank Brigade of the 2nd Polish Army were surrounded by German Panzer and Panzergrenadier forces? There isn't much footage about it.
David_18 68 | 982
2 Jan 2011 #39
Accept it Sok...we woz best! You heard it from Russians! ;)

Best on what? Murder inoncent people?

And BB when will you stop pretend to be a German? You know i can smell a Pole miles away ;)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #40
...
This video is made by the Brits.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #41
Best on what? Murder inoncent people?

You don't win this many battles across Europe with murdering innocent peoples....nope you win them with destroying your enemy's armed military only!

And BB when will you stop pretend to be a German? You know i can smell a Pole miles away ;)

Yeah...can't you smell my enthusiasm for the polish forces??? :):):)

This video is made by the Brits.

nice footage
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #42
And BB when will you stop pretend to be a German? You know i can smell a Pole miles away ;)

Why don't you start talking German with BB? The best way to find out. I did and I know he's a German.
David_18 68 | 982
2 Jan 2011 #43
You don't win this much battles with murdering innocent peoples....nope you win them with destroying your armed military!

Yes indeed the Germans were superior in almost all the military fields. If it weren't for Hitler and those sick nazis Germany would have been better of if it would still have been a WW2.

Yeah...can't you see my enthusiasm for the polish forces??? :):):)

I bet you're from Silesia or upper Poland ;)

Why don't you start talking German to BB? The best way to find out. I did and I know he's a German.

Atleast 5 of my relatives speaks fluent German... Does it make them German?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #44
If it weren't for Hitler and those sick nazis Germany would have been better of if it would still have been a WW2.

Even better there wouldn't had been a war!

I bet you're from Silesia or upper Poland ;)

My grand parents came from lower Silesia...Ick bin ein Berliner!

*yummy* :)
OP Kevwad 1 | 17
2 Jan 2011 #45
2 weeks is a little exaggerated

What do you expect? Most people I know said no more then 3 weeks, plus your link only goes to Sept 27th then Warsaw capitulated when the last battle in the invasion of Poland was in Oct. 6th (but fighting still went on elsewhere).
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #46
Atleast 5 of my relatives speaks fluent German... Does it make them German?

I bet their German is not as fluent as BB's unless they are Germans too.

nice footage

yes it is and it shows the reality about the great Russian army.
David_18 68 | 982
2 Jan 2011 #47
My grand parents came from lower Silesia...Ick bin ein Berliner!

Mmm i got good Instinct!

I wont even argue about your grand parents being polish. Silesians are so stubborn!

I bet their German is not as fluent as BB's unless they are Germans too.

Yes they do for sure! They even got this German accent when they speak english. Could be because they lived there almost whole their live. They recived German citizenship during the communist times since some of our ancestors were German.

According to article 116 of the German constitution, all former German citizens, regardless of their nationality, can be "re-granted German citizenship on application" and also are "considered as not having been deprived of their German citizenship if they have established their domicile in Germany after May 8, 1945 and have not expressed a contrary intention." This regulation allowed the "autochthons", as well as ethnic Germans who at first decided to stay in Poland and were allowed to do so, to reclaim German citizenship and settle in West Germany. Besides those groups a substantial community of Poles who never had German citizenship were emigrating to West Germany during the whole period of the People's Republic of Poland due to its undemocratic political system and constant economic problems.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_Poland_to_Germany_after_World_War_II
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #48
I wont even argue about your grand parents being polish

Very kind of you! ;)
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #49
Mmm i got good Instinct!

Your instinct sucks big time. Lower Silesia was a part of Germany and was populated mainly by the Germans.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #50
Well...they managed to hold back with their "glorifying" for most of the time...I'm not used to reading such statements!

Not really, different historians different opinions, the point im making is they're politically based.

Wehrmacht was impressive but thats mostly from the western perspective, 44-45 Russians were sh*tting all over anything Germany had numbers or no numbers.

And of course it can't come from communists...we all know what pathological liars commies are!
How come you would rather believe commie propaganda in this regard???

I would neither, i'm interested in WW2 and can off the bat show you several operations where Russians outnumbered shat all over Wehrmacht.

Russians were better on the defence from the beginning, then when the incompetent officers died or got captured and there was no more room for sh*t and giggles they became superior, thats why they won.

A largely ignored fact is that by the end of 1941 Russians were outnumbered and fighting with nothing but their manly cocks yet they stopped Germans, the entire history is formed the way something like that.

Also a thing to consider.

Napoleon didnt win because he was awesome, he won because he was awesome and everyone else was incompetent, the same goes for Hitler, the only army that became competent in WW2 was the Red Army, everything else including Poland was a joke.

Your instinct sucks big time. Lower Silesia was a part of Germany and was populated mainly by the Germans.

Lower Silesia is not Silesia.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #51
Mmm i got good Instinct!

I wont even argue about your grand parents being polish. Silesians are so stubborn!

David i'm trying to figure out what is the reason for you denying his Germanic roots and if your attitude towards Poles is negative?
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #52
Lower Silesia is not Silesia.

well, it is just as it is the Upper Silesia too. The difference is that the Upper Silesia was changing hands more often than it was the case with the Lower Silesia.
David_18 68 | 982
2 Jan 2011 #53
David i'm trying to figure out what is the reason for you denying his Germanic roots and if your attitude towards Poles is negative?

It's not negative. And only reason i even care is because i know how people from Silesia likes to deny their polish roots.

Just look at Klose!
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jan 2011 #54
So to you, whoever was born in Silesia (Upper or Lower) has automatically Polish roots, right? (lol)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #55
Also a thing to consider.

I really wonder where your worshipping of the Red Army stems from Sok...you must know by now that the mainstream judgement by the overwhelming majority of international experts is very negative about their tactics and strategies (nothing against the braveness of the poor sob on the ground).

I won't discuss this fact with you as we will have to agree to disagree here (and that russian witness opinion here count double for me), I only wonder. Especially as you elsewhere can hardly find a good word about russian achievements.

PS: Silesia was Upper AND lower Silesia and hence was for sure part of Silesia for 2000 years.
OP Kevwad 1 | 17
2 Jan 2011 #56
How did this conversation get form Polish in the battle of Berlin to the roots of Silesia again?
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #57
It's not negative. And only reason i even care is because i know how people from Silesia likes to deny their polish roots.

Well Silesians are not ethnic Polish nor are Kasubians or Lemkos just other Slavic minorities.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
2 Jan 2011 #58
well, it is just as it is the Upper Silesia too. The difference is that the Upper Silesia was changing hands more often than it was the case with the Lower Silesia.

You need to go to google and find yourself a map of historical Silesia then come back to me and we can have a discussion.

It's not negative. And only reason i even care is because i know how people from Silesia likes to deny their polish roots.

You're kidding right? The silesian autonomy whatstheirname doesnt even have 40k members in a region with more than six milion inhabitants.

So to you, whoever was born in Silesia (Upper or Lower) has automatically Polish roots, right? (lol)

Post 1947? Yep.

Well Silesians are not ethnic Polish nor are Kasubians or Lemkos just other Slavic minorities.

Sorry mate they're all ethnic Poles, its like saying Bavarians aint ethnic Germans.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,432
2 Jan 2011 #59
Well Silesians are not ethnic Polish nor are Kasubians or Lemkos just other Slavic minorities.

Germans have lived there for over 1000 years...

Post 1947? Yep.

Well...as our football team (between others) found out alot more Germans stayed than previously thought. ;)
Alone during the 80's nearly a million Poles with german heritage used their right of return to immigrate to West Germany.

Now back to the Reichstag question!
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
2 Jan 2011 #60
Germans have lived there for over 1000 years...

Ok BB we believe you your ancestors were Silesian Germans. Will somebody post any video links bout that damn Battle of Bautzen?


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