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How come Poles like Russians but not Germans?


Wulkan - | 2,968    
31 Mar 2014  #121

How come Poles like Russians but not Germans?

it's actually not truth, it's just the particular Polish people that you know.


peterweg 36 | 2,207    
31 Mar 2014  #122

Simply take the number of Poles slaughtered by the Nazis during WWII and compare that with the Soviets: the ratio is probably in the range of 90% to 10%. Russians, l

The Russians deported over a million Poles and killed hundreds of thousands, your wild guess is probably wrong but saying the Russian only killed a million Poles is ok is pretty stupid.

Russia invaded Poland two/three times in the 20th Century and occupied it again after other occupations.

Russia is a threat to Poland existence TODAY, German is not.

Russians, like it or not, are our fellow Slavic cousins sharing common language roots and customs,

What sort of 'brothers' invade, occupy and attempt to exterminate?

Russia's war plan against NATO involved the complete Nuclear annihilation of Poland and the Polish people, In defense of Russia, not Poland.. WW2 would have been nothing in comparison.
Jardinero 1 | 380    
31 Mar 2014  #123

The Russians deported over a million Poles and killed hundreds of thousands, your wild guess is probably wrong but saying the Russian only killed a million Poles is ok is pretty stupid.

I think there's little doubt which side was more horrific on the Polish population in terms of WWII casualties, so if stating obvious facts is 'pretty stupid' to you, then then why get involved in the discussion in the first place?

What sort of 'brothers' invade, occupy and attempt to exterminate?

Why are you confusing common Slavic ancestry with politics and the struggle to secure and dominate? Both Germany and Russia as much great powers in recent centuries did what they did to conquer and take control of the lands between them. However, Poles and Russians share similar customs, etc., which is simply not the case with the Germans. So politics and past cruelties aside, I think most Poles who have made friends with Russians will tell agree how much in common the two nationalities have.
Wulkan - | 2,968    
31 Mar 2014  #124

less common than you think
peterweg 36 | 2,207    
31 Mar 2014  #125

so if stating obvious facts is 'pretty stupid' to you, then then why get involved in the discussion in the first place?

You think its smart to claim the Russians only killed 1million Poles so we should like them?

I think its completely stupid of you to make a comment like that, as is 'obvious facts' - no such thing.
Jardinero 1 | 380    
31 Mar 2014  #126

And I think it's beyond doubt that you have issues I certainly cannot help you with.
Wulkan - | 2,968    
31 Mar 2014  #127

It's you who seems to be having issues with the fact that most Poles don't like Russians.
Jardinero 1 | 380    
31 Mar 2014  #128

And what 'fact' would that be? Are you sure you are not mixing politics with ordinary people now? But I am ready to believe that most Poles also 'don't like' their fellow countrymen either simply because they hold a opposing view on politics...
Lenka 2 | 1,073    
31 Mar 2014  #129

I'm Polish and I have nothing against Russian as such. I can judge their government actions but it doesn't mean I dislike a nation. Simple idea of that is silly.
Anet - | 2    
19 Apr 2015  #130

I wouldn't say that I like or dislike neither Russia or Germany, but I definitelly have a different attitude towards each of them.
I grew up near the eastern border where you could meet Russian people on everyday basis usually selling smuggled cigarettes and it was easy to establish a business relationship with them. They were happy to make some money and we were happy to save some money and not paying taxes. There was something about it like two groups of people in (financially) underprivileged positions helping each other a little bit. They were open and nice and spoke similar language so it was easy to communicate with them. On the other hand, I remember watching a Polish documentary by a Polish female journalist who went to Russia and spoke to people asking questions about Polish Russian relationship. When she said that many Polish people feel that Russia should have entered Warsaw earlier that what they did in January 1945 (and before that Russia waited for Germans to kill as many Polish people as they were able to and only then entered Warsaw which by that time was practically empty as the German troops had already left - in history books is says that Russians wanted to be seen as the only ones who freed Warsaw, and that is why they waited for the Polish uprising to fail and postponed entering Warsaw for as long as they could). Anyway, when she said that, they become physically aggressive towards her and said that Polish people are ungrateful.

For me Russians would never criticize their government or the leader of their country or would never be able to accept the fact that someone else does. They are not ready and I think they will never be ready to acknowledge that there were lots of bad things that Russia may be responsible for. I do not say that it is completely their fault - they do not have free media and are indoctrinated when they are at school. (We had that in Poland too - the history books my mother had to read at school were different than the ones I read.)

Whereas German people admit that the bad things that happened were bad. So when I imagine myself having a conversation with a German person, somehow I think I would be easier and I think I could say what I want without a kind of self-censorship which I would definitely have to apply when speaking to Russians.

Have a look at this:
youtube.com/watch?v=BTPQRwltpeY
'Stalin is still one of the most popular historical figures in Russia nearly 19 years after the fall of the Soviet Union.'
A German person would not wear a T-shirt with Hitler on it, would they?
Or erect his monument, unlike Russians do with Stalin monument here:
youtube.com/watch?v=h2f8btGdCb0
Is there anyone less worthy of having their monument erected than him?
And if you can't come to an agreement on basic things like what is a good and a bad thing to do, having a closer relationship with a Russian person would be challenging.

So for me the biggest difference between the two nations is not what they did in the past but how they evaluate it now.
Marsupial - | 857    
20 Apr 2015  #131

That's why I no longer care what any russians say. The partitions, battle for warsaw invasion from east in 39, their pact with hitler, deportations, communism. Go to hell take your fake history and astaunding ignorance with you ruski morons. If I come across a worse excuse for humans on the planet I will let you know.
Mr Grunwald 17 | 1,482    
20 Apr 2015  #132

Russians think themselves to be above human! Not good at all, Poles don't like that. Especially Catholic Poland
Gosc123456    
20 Apr 2015  #133

@Mr. Grunwald: if Russians think themselves about the others, so do Germans ("Deutchland über alles!", socalled 'Superior race"...).
jon357 55 | 10,680    
20 Apr 2015  #134

Remember that here, uber alles means "above everything" not "above everyone".
JollyRomek 7 | 483    
20 Apr 2015  #135

so do Germans

"Deutschland, Deutschland ueber alles" is the first verse of the "Lied der Deutschen" which later evolved to become the German anthem. The Nazis only used this very first verse where as now the only verse used is the third verse.

uber alles means "above everything" not "above everyone".

Yes, that is correct.

So for me the biggest difference between the two nations is not what they did in the past but how they evaluate it now.

Thank you Anet. That's possibly one of best statements in this thread!
Mr Grunwald 17 | 1,482    
20 Apr 2015  #136

@Mr. Grunwald: if Russians think themselves about the others, so do Germans ("Deutchland über alles!", socalled 'Superior race"...).

Well they think their Tsar is above everyone at least which is disturbing, unlike Pi³sudski which didn't grab the power when expected only becaouse he didn't believe in Democracy or atleast, that Poland wasn't ready for it.
Crow 132 | 5,329    
20 Apr 2015  #137

Russians think themselves to be above human! Not good at all, Poles don't like that. Especially Catholic Poland

In the eyes of the Serbians, both failed. Both, and Russians and Poles. No, not because of old sin, that Slavs fought against Slavs. But, not only them. Most of the Slavs. It is only us Serbs that didn`t ally ourselves with foreigners against other Slavs. In fact, that was, from time to time, our biggest sin in the eyes of other Slavs.
Lyzko 13 | 2,520    
20 Apr 2015  #138

Since even longer before WWII, Germany has muscled her way into Eastern Europe, both militarily (The Polish Corridor) as well as culturally (German was made a semi-official language of the Polish intelligentsia - after French, of course), leaving the distinct feeling, much like today, e.g. in the eyes of little Greece, that Big Brother Germany is shoving her weight around ONCE AGAIN!

Russian hegemony was more or less a matter of course. Her land mass for one thing and her common Slavic roots for another, always made Russia a place which Poles might have been in awe of, yet sensed a historic link. Such a link was far less so with the Germans, even though curiously, the Poles have considerable Germanic mixed with their Slavic makeup:-)

Hitler, as with many other German speakers, then and now, called the Poles "peasants", "stupid, drunken simpletons", going so far as to call them "Untermenschen", lit. "sub-humans". Although his feeling for the Jews was especially venal, he wasn't crazy about the Poles either. This feeling sadly is shared even today by even a lot of younger Germans I've encountered, whose nickname for Poles is, unfortunately, "Dodelkoenig" i.e. king of slowpokes:-)
weeg    
20 Apr 2015  #139

It's 2015, not 1935 you know.
Lyzko 13 | 2,520    
20 Apr 2015  #140

Indeed, weegie! Let's remind certain of one's fellow countrymen that the clock ain't stopped:-)
TheOther 5 | 2,823    
21 Apr 2015  #141

This feeling sadly is shared even today by even a lot of younger Germans I've encountered, whose nickname for Poles is, unfortunately, "Dodelkoenig"

Making things up again, are we? There is no such word as Dodelkoenig in German. The only derogatory term for Polish people I'm aware of is "Polack" (same as in English), and that one is almost exclusively used by the handful of remaining neo-Nazis in Germany. You must've hung out with a lot of weird old people while you were there, because what you describe is absolutely not the norm amongst Germans born after the war.

I'm starting to wonder whether the old stereotype of the xenophobic Anti Defamation League from NYC is actually true.
Lyzko 13 | 2,520    
21 Apr 2015  #142

The word I used IS INDEED German, merely a sort of slang with which you're perhaps unfamiliar:-)

Secondly, the anti-Defamation League is dedicated to rooting our racism whereever it may be. Whilst I surely don't always concur with what is said, Poles, like many other European nations, have had a long history of anti-Semitism, aided and abetted I might add, by the good ol' Catholic Church!!
TheOther 5 | 2,823    
21 Apr 2015  #143

The word I used IS INDEED German

Show me on Google... :)

the anti-Defamation League is dedicated to rooting our racism whereever it may be

Freudian slip?
Lyzko 13 | 2,520    
21 Apr 2015  #144

Apparently you've never heard of neulogisms in any language which might not appear in a standard dictionary. My word was clearly Southern derived.

Back on topic, indeed it may have been a slip, yet racism does cut both ways!

Poland was at one time for Russia a sort of land grab. Both Germany and Russia have always fought over territory, were in fact the only major European powers capable of waging war:-)
Gosc123456    
21 Apr 2015  #145

"Deutschland über .... ALLES", yes, it does show that Germans feel "better"' than everybody since than everything. As to German opinion about Poles and other Eastern people, it is pathetic. Germans don't like anyone, anyway so no need to be offended ;)
jon357 55 | 10,680    
21 Apr 2015  #146

No it doesn't. See the earlier post about the translation of über alles. Meaning above (or over) everything. Nothing at all about any relationship with other nationalities.
JollyRomek 7 | 483    
21 Apr 2015  #147

As to German opinion about Poles and other Eastern people, it is pathetic. Germans don't like anyone, anyway so no need to be offended ;)

You have clearly never been to Germany, otherwise you would not come up with such nonsense.

By the way "Das Lied der Deutschen" of which "Deutschland ueber alles" is part of the first verse was written in 1841. So you are referring to a few lines of texts which are over 170 years old.

Seeing that Germany has since moved from Kaiser, to the Weimarer Republik, to the Nazis, to being split into two countries to being re-united and becoming one of top strategic partners for a lot of countries in Europe (including Poland) and the world, I think your opinion might be a tiny bit outdated.

Not even Poles feel about Germany the way you do. What's pathetic is that you are trying to argue using stereotypes which have very little to do with reality.
Gosc123456    
21 Apr 2015  #148

@Jolly: Trust me, I have been several times to Germany, including 2X2 months working in Stuttgart when a student. People are most often unpleasant. Don't tell us they have high opinion of Poles and other Eastern people. How many stupid jokes for instance about Poles stealing cars? Although jokes are plain stupid, I like what Poles say about Germany "you know you have arrived in Germany when cows look better than women"... In Poland, I saw 3 situations in which Poles insulted Germans for just being Germans. Old Poles remember how much they suffered during the war and seeing (arrogant) Germans in Poland often make them sick. Like said, I saw 3 verbal agressions by Poles (last one was on a bus in Warsaw 2 years ago). Germans don't like anyone anyway so Poles should not be too concerned.
Roger5 1 | 1,196    
21 Apr 2015  #149

Nicely put, Jolly. My dad was in the British Army from 1940 until he was demobbed in 1946. Although he was a great guy, he never really 'forgave' Germans for robbing him (as he saw it) of his youth. Coming from a post-war generation, I have no such prejudice against modern Germany. In many ways it is a beacon of tolerance and peace. Some people on this forum love to perpetuate old hatreds. It's what makes them get up in the morning.
Gosc123456    
21 Apr 2015  #150

@Roger! Don't worry! PF is just ok when drinking coffee:). I just can't stand arrogant East Germans. East Germans show their muscles in PF as in Germany there are the underdogs, working for a couple of euros/hour when not being unemployed. I personally know former West Germany very well, completely different mentality.



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