Polish nationality? Which of the following (if any) determine being Polish.

Some people like to pick and choose. Do what you enjoy, no need to stick to your group.

does it mean you believe there is no nations and division into nations is useless?

Yea. I'm more of a smaller is better ideology. Local customs and traditions, pick and choose what works, and enjoy things instead of identifying with one or the other.

I think it human nature to want to identify with a particular group.
From caveman times for survival, up to today, right here on PF where many insist on self-dividing into national and ethnic camps.

I would believe by blood. I know Polish blood is more of a mix than anything but if your great grandfather was from Poland than you can consider yourself part polish, if 2 were from Poland than you are Polish. Saying you must have been born there and speak the language is offensive, especially to me since one of my great grandfathers came here from German owned Poland, and the other had to flee Russian owned Poland after he was drafted into the Russian army, and had to change his name and hide in America.

They were the complicating factors I had in mind above. The answers are not entirely easy. I mean, can anyone here prove clearly and unequivocally that Copernicus was Polish?

You have Polish heritage, but, you're about as Polish as Jackie Chan.

A small digression only to serve a point. Convex, what of people with native American Indian heritage? I know a guy with those roots. He doesn't conform to the traditional American model but is he still an American?

But they weren't from Poland. Most Polish-Americans really, really struggle to grasp this - there was no Poland for them to have been from!


And what stopped him teaching the language to his children, and to their children, and so on? To me - you can't claim to be Polish if you don't speak the language. It's really that simple - how can you claim to be part of a nation if you can't even understand how that nation thinks? The Polish language has such a big influence on Polish behaviour - and anyone proclaiming themselves as Polish should be able to understand the thought processes that people have.

Ultimately, to be Polish, you need, at the very least, to be a citizen and be able to speak the language. I wonder how many Polish-Americans would serve the Polish state in a time of need? Not many, I bet.

does he eat mcdonalds? speaks english at home? watches american tv? they're(we're) americans.

Yup, he's American then :)

Passport holders don't count either. I know Poles with German passports but they are definitely Poles.

agree with that statement and as a proof of that we should notice that each person identify himself with:

- street where he lives (in £ódź some hools ask you where you live and if you are "swój" they leave you alone)

- district where he lives (the same as above)
- city/town/village where he lives (there is sometimes rivalry between cities; in Poland Warsaw vs rest of Poland)
- region where he lives (western poland vs eastern poland)
- country where he lives (poland vs other coutries)
- continents where he lives (america/usa/ vs europe)

So whatever you would done ppl will always try to make some groups and compete with others

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As for nationality determination:
its about personal declaration. If Seanus feel Japanese no one can forbit him to feel Japanese. There some kind of trust that these declaration of nationality won't be ridiculuos (and mostly are not). It's the legal view

For me personally I agree that I can't reject anybody's self-identity right but I feel that a person who wasn't brought up in Poland for some time is not fully polish. It's because being raised in different country makes you that you don't understand fully the every little nuance of "culture" or behaviour you can encounter in Poland. You can try to come from behind in these aspects as an adult but adult has fully shaped mentality and it can happen that he never will feel here like at home. I think that good example of that is NMP who seems to be quite dissapointed of Poland. He was raised in different country and even though his grandparents and parents were trying to brought up him in touch with Poland it seems they did not managed to show him real Poland. Now as an adult he sees only the negatives and almost everything in UK seems to be better for him. Of course I don't know NMP family or even him and maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I have.

The good example of that is the movie "American rhapsody" (based on true story). Even though the main charachter was born and raised to an early age in home country (Hungary), she couldn't find her place there when she came back there from the USA as a young lady.

Yep. We humans are tribal like that. We seek a sense of belonging with others like ourselves in some way...

And I figure if we grow past that, and just start competing against one another, one on one, things will be better for everyone. But hey, I'm an unapologetic libertarian.

Why do you think sport is so popular? (certainly not because it's healthy;)
Its the way of competing between nations/cities/areas without blood ;)

And being part of a team!

Great example of the group mentality, Z. ;)

because weak individuals need to identify with something greater than themselves?

Works for religion...

yes indeed. going to go conquer some alcohol now. record stands at 0-389, i'm feeling lucky tonight though.

The flip side is that one may not feel what one is but they are still that. Look at Poles who go abroad with the intention of never returning or those Americans that vowed never again to be a patriot. They may not feel Polish or American but they are. It all hinges on what angle you approach the labelling process from.

Don't agree with you at all. If someone renounce of his nationality then he is no longer Pol/Am

You are getting confused here, Zeti. If a Pole or American, both of whose parents are Polish and American (through blood), denounces what they are then they may distance themselves from it but they are still that.

You can formally renounce your status as a citizen. Look at chess players like Korchnoi (Russian/Swiss), Shirov (Russia/Spain) and Fisher (American/Icelandic). They decided to change their citizenship but their nationality could still be considered as their original.

If you reject your nationality no one will force you to be that national. Narodowość to tak naprawdę rzecz umowna, jeśli ktoś się jej wyrzeka to proszę bardzo. Takie jest moje zdanie.

whatever this guy says it is then that is what it is.. he's the authority on one's polishness.


give me a break.. *rolleyes*

lol

Then tell me why whole world call Polański a Polish director? He has any drop of Polish blood in his veins. His mother was Jewish-Russian, his father was Jew connected with Poland (but I don't know anything about any Polish ancestors from this side). He himself was born in France. I'm not even sure if he consider himself to be Polish (as far as I know he doesn't even have polish passport now)

Blood doesn't suddenly change, Zeti. Tell me, what effect does blood have on nationality? If I feel Polish, Zeti, is that enough for me to be a Polish national?

Not many know of his roots, Zeti. Polański sounds Polish and that's the logic of many for ascribing a status to him.

yes. You can write in your papers what you want

PS

Welcome on board, my new compatriot! ;)


his real name is Raymund Liebling. Polanski name is after his stepmother (you know that after war Jews were persecuted that's why they wish to change the last name to sound more polish).

PS

Aaronofsky may sound pretty polish either (even though for a native Pole it doesn't sound polish at all). Why then Americans don;t think that Darren Aaronofsky is Polish? Why Trocki is not consider Polish???

Well, not so fast. Some form of naturalisation process should occur. Marriage to a national helps but the rights of blood component is missing. I hold rights of territory which is another plus. However, define membership.

I may need to meet certain knowledge and linguistic competence requirements. I don't know how it is in Poland but it's that way in the UK.

Legally? Legally no one should be intrested in your nationality (in meaning of ethnicity). It's your own personal thing and it's only up to you where's your heart at. Nationality in Poland is matter of individual declaration, period.

Different thing is what ppl are customed to consider as belonging to some ethnicity. It might be strong tradition in ones family which preserve the memory of this family origins (e.g. the Tatars, the Jews, the Romas). It might be the blood right (then we count up to 4th generation). It might be born right (in the meaning of place where someone was raised).

Well, it differs from the UK thing as naturalisation has, I think, 5 main criteria to be met. It was when I studied anyway. I still don't think I can be Slavic if I consider himself to be. Pictish or Celtic, yes.