What would be the typical wage for someone with very basic English knowledge who would work somewhat independently in a light manufacturing setting (no prior skills or experience needed; like gluing/screwing a simple item together for example, boxing it, putting labels on, mailing packages, etc)? In Wroclaw, in or just outside the city.
How about for a lower skilled secretary, who does things like basic data entry and answering phones? Also for a basic/no English speaker vs a fluent English speaker? A no-accent native English speaker who lives in Poland? Just rough figures. And comparison with other cities/areas if you have the time.
This may strike people as a weird question, but is it easy/possible to find a cleaning woman who would also help with things like dishes, and even washing/folding clothes and cooking/preparing meals (not serving it to me or anything, but maybe making a big pot of food/bunch of individual meals when I am there or not and putting them in tupperwares in the fridge). Sort of like a nanny job description but with no kids. Would requesting this come off as weird? What would be the typical going rate and employment arrangement for this kind of worker, assuming it was only part-time like 20 hrs a week? It seems like the difference in rent between what I am paying now and what I would pay in Poland would cover the cost of it and then some.
I'm good at working and running my business, but I'm not good at also staying on top of housework and cooking all my own meals, and don't like to eat out all the time for money health and time reasons. I would be better off financially and otherwise hiring someone and spending that time on my business. Not married yet and don't really want roommates. I don't want this to sound like I'm extravagant or want servants or something. In the US I hired a cleaning woman who did my apartment every 2 weeks, and it's not uncommon there for middle-/upper-middle-income people.
For a maid About 15 zloty an hour if you want someone you can trust who speaks a bit of english. Also consider their travelling time and cost - if just outside the city means no bus then you will prbably need to throw some petrol cost in there.
For the other two you will get nothing in a big city now for under 2.500 zloty, for your assistant who spoke good english you would need at least 3000.
A no-accent native English speaker who lives in Poland?
Everybody has an accent of some kind and the less of an accent, the more they'll expect to be paid. Less obvious accent often means higher social class and better education so they'll expect to be paid accordingly. Native English speakers, regardless of accent will generally not be prepared to work for the same money as locals or other groups of immigrants.
cooking/preparing meals
I'm sure someone would be willing to do that but what kind of meals do you want? Remember that she may not be accustomed to cooking the kind of dishes you eat. If you give her a cookery book will her English be good enough to read it? She may have basic communicative English but there are native speakers who can't follow recipes, believe it or not!
health
Whatever she's cooking, don't let her have access to a salt cellar.! Poles generally add salt when they're cooking and lots of it.
As for what you should pay people, do the decent thing and pay what you can comfortably afford within your budget. If that's more than local rates then pay it.
It doesn't take much to top my cooking skills. I would show how to do something if they weren't able. Nothing fancy, just very basic meals, like a boiled or roasted potato, boiled vegetables or kupusta, and (usually just pan-fried) meat or fish, for example.
Sorry, but as a businessman, and to me this hiring would be a business decision, I can't get with the idea of paying as much as I can afford. I also sympathize with the very low wage situation in Poland and wouldn't pay rock bottom even if I could get away with it. So if someone could be hired for 10zl and I could afford 15zl, I'd probably pay 12.50, for example. As an entrepreneur it's important to pay well to get good people, but if you pay a little less than top-end you can hire more people who are not the best but good enough. I am sure that Poland's currency will eventually rise to near or above the Euro and that's the way wages and living standards will increase here, even if the PLN numerical amount does not actually increase much.
Basically wondering what the average, or better yet, typical range for these jobs is in a bigger city like Wroclaw. I've seen a lot references to jobs in the 8-12zl range, but is that strictly outside big cities, if so, how far?
I would advertise and see who applies for the position and how much they want. We can all write that you should pay this much or that much, but in reality it is the QUALITY of work/cooking that is most important. Remember if you pay peanuts - you get monkeys.
A good piece of advice: Get everything down on paper for you both to sign and date. This may prevent arguments later on that you promised to pay for this and haven't or she promised to do that and she hasn't.
Start low and if they don't complain, leave it low. Poles are hard working apparently, although I have heard that immigrants work harder than natives so it could be that you take on an immigrant and NOT a native.
If you advertise in English, then surely to understand the advert they understand English !.
If that is true than how come people refer to the average as being about 2500 zloty, when according to you rock bottom, only 5% of population, is making 2200? I am not opposed to paying 15+, I'm just trying to figure out what the current climate for wages is. I've seen references to as low as 6 in many posts, for things like busboy, hotel maid, etc. Although that may have been from a couple years ago, and in cheaper cities
There is an old proverb: suck it and see. Offer what you think the work is worth (say 10 zl an hour) and see who you get. Offer 20 zl an hour and see who you get.
It would be interesting to know how much you ended up paying in the end.
So if someone could be hired for 10zl and I could afford 15zl, I'd probably pay 12.50, for example.
You'd be happy to pay two quid an hour, then. Do you know what that buys in Poland? A bus ticket for 50 km/a sandwich/under 3l of petrol. Just because people are low paid it doesn't mean it's right to pay low. People on 10 or 15 PLN/hour hate their boss's guts.
It's important to know the range because then you can hold out for the better people. Why can't people just tell me what it is? You can't just wave money around and the best people all know about you and flock to you. That's not how it works. A lot of it's luck and a process of trial and error. There are good people who will work for less early on in their careers, and later make more. When you hire someone and you see they are good, then you can pay them more to keep them around. On the other hand you can pay high off the bat and still get stuck with a scumbag.
My best workers who are very capable people started out at low-end wages, now they make triple their initial wage as independent operators who I still work with. And that's in the US, where the starting wage wasn't terrible.
There is nothing stopping you paying 15zl per hour - for a day on a trial basis. If you like the work - then continue to employ them. If not, just let them go.
If you are employing someone on a full-time job with ZUS payments etc, then put them on a trial basis for a week.
I have no idea who is advertizing jobs at 6 zloty an hour but paying that much is a criminal offence in Poland.
The average in Poland is not 2.500 - it is 3.900 gross mean and the median I guess is around 2.900. That is an average fort he whole country including small towns in the east. Wroclaw would be circa 15 percent above that average.
The figure i gave you of 15 is what I pay my cleaner, she speaks English and if needed I trust her with the kids for an hour or so. You seem set on the idea that you can get someone for 10 zloty so rather put your ad in the paper and tell us hwo it goes.
How am I set on it? I just asked what the actual range was and so far no one has really answered the question. Said pay what I can afford, and good luck finding anyone under 15zl, when there are obviously millions of people making less. Maybe they're students or immigrants, but that might be who I want to hire for some tasks, at first at least. Probably not, but possibly.
As for the 2 quid an hour thing, believe it or not there are probably in the low millions of people in the US who make under 3 quid/hr. That's what a lot of farm workers make. Agricultural workers have a special minimum wage and a lot of them get paid in the 4-5 USD range, sometimes in cash. In the countries where those people come from (Honduras, Nicaragua, El Salvador) they often make less than $0.50/hr. The regular minimum wage across the states ranges between 4.25 quid and 5.75 quid.
I'd be happy to get into a discussion about the workings and justice of the world economy sometime, it's my kind of topic, but that's not why I posted this thread.
cms: Thanks for the info and about the premium for Wroclaw.
I see what you're saying that that's the average wage for all jobs, but some of the jobs I'm talking about are at the low end of the skill spectrum. In the US the average salary for all professions is somewhere around 45k/yr, but there are millions of people making 12-18k in low paid, low skilled jobs. Someone who makes 120k gross is not considered rich esp in West coast and northeast, but rather upper-middle class, even though it's 10x some people's incomes. A doctor can make anywhere from 60-250k++. It's all over the map and I'm trying to zero in on different areas of the skill spectrum.
Whilst we really appreciate the economic lesson about how much people earn in the US, this is Wroclaw, Poland. Please let us know how much you ended up paying for someone who meets your criteria for the job. That would be very useful for any future prospective employers/clients who wish to hire people for similar positions.
Yes, and you still haven't given me any information related to my original question about Wroclaw Poland, other than platitudes like 'get it in writing' 'try and see' and 'you get what you pay for'
Try not to appear to be gender-specific - you are ascribing stereotypical activities to women. The best solution, if I may suggest something, would be to clean what should be clean by your own person - thus you will avoid any accusation of male chauvinism or class oppression.
(terri) I just looked back and you actually advised me to ask the employee to tell me how much I should pay! You gotta be kidding me- good luck with THAT if you ever have a business. Who knows, maybe it would actually work like those grade your own paper experiments, but I'm not going to be the guinea pig
you actually advised me to ask the employee to tell me how much I should pay!
Of course - dignity of labour, the rights of the worker and of course the cash nexus.
Don't think about employing non-Union labour either.
"Our own right hand the chains must shiver, Chains of hatred, greed and fear. E'er the thieves will out with their booty, And to all give a happier lot. Each at his forge must do their duty, And we'll strike the iron while it's hot."
roade85 There are many good and capable people around theses parts (Wroclaw Silesia) you will be able to find someone that will fit your requirements, as for payment, as in any interview scenario you pay for quality and skills accordingly, usually by negotiation, but to be fair offer at least 15% over the minimum wage., all will be good.
I just looked back and you actually advised me to ask the employee to tell me how much I should pay!
That's normal business practice in Poland. I can see you've got a long, long way to go if you ever hope to do anything here.
Maybe they're students or immigrants, but that might be who I want to hire for some tasks, at first at least.
Immigrants (as in non-EU ones) require work permits, which means you need to pay them properly. No-one is going to get out of bed in Wrocław for less than 15zł an hour if they're in any way competent - the exception are students, but they are unbelievably mercenary-like and they couldn't care less if they just ditch your work with no notice. Wrocław doesn't have a big "uneducated worker class" - in fact, it has the exact opposite. If you want such people, you need to look in economically deprived places - but the problem is that most competent workers have already left for the cities/abroad.
In your case, Ukraine, Serbia or Albania is far more suitable for what you want.
I'd like to hire a live-in maid or au pair to help with chores and help my wife and kid get adjusted to Poland. How much would this cost and how would I go about getting one?
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