(IT field) moving from India to Poland -Wroclaw in May '11

As a Pole living in Poland and IT guy: bnrrv0, welcome in Poland :-)

If by any chance you are familiar with Oracle Flexcube then feel free to PM me.

Probably the easiest way to find a job for you would be in your husband company. But it would be safer to find a job in different place.

About salaries in Wroclaw it varies greatly depending on your skills and luck. If you have some general experience then probably you can count on some job with salaries between 5000 to 7000 PLN gross. If you happen to have some specialist knowledge in some field which is needed then if you are lucky you can count on more (hard to put a ceiling here because it is very individual thing).

One word of advice: as you can see in my post full of errors, Polish English is far from perfection ;) From my experience Hindu English is not perfect either and can be very hard to Polish ear. You should make sure that your accent is not a barrier for your interlocutor. I saw it couple of times when Poles were avoiding after a while cooperation with Hindu guys at work just because they didn't understand much of the Hindu English and were afraid to raise that issue. Secondly, some habits are different in Poland than in India, I'm not sure how to elaborate it to not offend you, because maybe I had just a bad luck ;) But having worked with some Hindu guys in the past they seemed to be let say too open with their physiological needs ;)



You guys don't know much about IT industry do you?
1. There is really hard for a good (not spectacular but good...) IT specialist to not find employment in Poland.
2. Those from relatively poor EU countries if they consider migration they are rather go for green fields in west EU where they can earn about twice or three times as much as in Poland

3. IT job is usually highly specialized thing and it is not easy to find right person for a job, add to that those two points above and maybe you will understand why sometimes it is neccessary to hire a foreigner.

I can understand to some extent fear of mass immigration to Poland, because clearly it didn't work out well for West Europe. But in the same time that fear shouldn't prevent Poland from attracting intelligent and trained people to come here. Such immigration is not mass imigration but selective imigration which in general is a good thing in many ways.

Turk are EU citizen.


I could'nt agree more, well said.

they seem to be missing from this list:

eucountrylist.com

Turk missing from the list - thats news to me. Thanks for the fast info :-)

And for many more years to come if it'd be up to me. Not because they are Turks, but simply because I am dead against further expansion of the EU. So no Turkey, no Iceland, no Ukraine, no Georgia, no Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro, etc ... .

Hell, there are even ideas to grant North African countries EU membership statuspolsis.bham.ac.uk/news/2011/03/eu-membership-enlargement.s html !

Who's next ... ? Azerbaijan, Armenia, Syria, Iran perhaps?

Hi Stu,

I thought the same not that i have 'racist' or 'racism' thought in my mind. When Turkey was accepted as EU member couple of years back, i was very surprise, cos the culture, physiology,religion, food, tradition, way of life and thinking etc etc etc. according to me, they look more close toward middle eastern, and i could'nt believe and I have difficult time to understand as to why it is accepted as a part of EU.

So in future, there is a plan to include those countries you named? that sound a bit crazy to me. Then it wont be EU anymore to me.

Turkey is not an EU member state. There are continuing negotiations but the majority of the EU probably does not want Turkey. The main problems are that Turkey is not able at present to meet the social standards of the EU (esp relating to the treatment of ethnic and religious minorities).

This might remain a continuing problem with them. However, with support from USA and UK ... I feel that day is not that far away. Wait till it happens and you will see some changes in Europe. I don't know if the changes will be positive or negative. But we might not have to wait too long to find out.

It is not a valid excuse, situation is not worse in Turkey than some EU countries. On the other hand it still makes sense but if things proceed in this direction joining EU will become meaningless for Turkey.

Worked a lot with Indian IT (being in IT myself).

Their English awful (at best).
Their skill levels are generally very weak.
Most of them spend their time trawling the Braindump sites asking for answers to the exams for the plethora of IT related accreditation.
Their degree's are meaningless and the raft of IT accreditation they list on their CV's equally meaningless.
Their CV's say IT guru, the reality is that the CV is a figment of their imagination and nothing more than an example of their ability to regurgitate answers from one of the many Braindump sites. Simple technical questions often reducing the interview process to a farce.

After interviewing literally hundreds of these guys I became so despondent with the lack of quality I refused to take part in the interviews because regardless of whether they were fit for purpose or not they were often given the position based purely on the fact that they were cheap.

Indian developers are the kings of cut and paste and google truly is their friend.

Currently working with a small team of Polish SharePoint developers who are about the best group of developers I have EVER worked with both individually and collectively and I have worked all over the world.

POLAND DOES NOT NEED SUB STANDARD INDIAN IT.

Oh and on one recent project.....we went 14 months over deadline because of the appalling state of the code they were producing.

I found one of the team of Off-Shore developers submitting our code online to a site in an attempt to have people bid to solve his mess.

^^
Surely in general IT devs from India do not have much credit - to often with great marketing their companies are selling rubbish quality.
On the other hand they seem to get better. Anyway, regardless we like it or not many top IT companies outsourced to India and now we have to deal with the consequences ;) In my experience though, marriages of Indian IT companies with global IT brands created additional pressure towards better quality.

talk "code reuse", huh? :)

That kind of coding can bring a company down, if some incompetent fukc grabs a few lines of copyrighted code, or some GPL stuff.

Yes, this is true to an extent but we are talking about projects running into the millions. The project I am on now has a budget of £65 million. When asked about the possibility of using Indian developers both myself the Architect and the Project Manager agreed unequivocally. We hired a team of guys from Wroclaw and the savings being made from time from not having to constantly reject code has put our project ahead of deadline and under budget. To the extent that the PM and I are seen as genii. Not the case at all, it was simply a common sense approach coupled with previous experiences.

For many of the Indian resources, if he/she isn't up to the mark they simply move the individual to another project and replace him/her with another fresher. We are not training academies for these people but they always start out by throwing the juniors at the project because they are cheaper. I always insisted in a Technical interview and had their CV sat in front of me.

Sorry, I have too many years experience and have been forced to work with them too often to conclude that they are anything less than a poor choice of resource.

Wouldn't that be an automatic decision without having to insist?
Given 10 minutes you'd know what the candidate is made of.
I used to work as a coder and I never got a job without a thorough technical interview, usually by a rep from MS (C++), Borland (Delphi) or Sun (Java).

Absolutely yes, if the procurement of resources was dictated by quality and time and not cost. On a number of occasions those resources have already been in situ because the business has dictated that based on cost IT would be resourced by a cheaper alternative. As you will know only too well, many organisations have pre-exisiting contracts with companies such as Infosys for example.

The only option was then to insist on some form of filtering by interview of the candidates even though ultimately the resource was from the same source.

What is the rent of 1 room apratment in Lodzkie? Can I get sharing flats over there?