US Polonia 70% for Kaczyński

If they are living in Poland then yes. They LIVE in that country and at least have some input into the country. Why should someone have a right to decide who governs a country when they are not affected by the outcome. For the same reason Indians living in India are not allowed to vote in the UK elections even though many of them in the past believed that they were British. (besides the point). If you leave Poland or any country for that matter to live in another country full-time, then in my opinion you veto the right to vote.

HWDPO

What input would that be?
Spending someone else's money?


How do you know they are not affected?


A tricky thing. A lot of people live full time outside of Poland while maintaining their presence in the country. What about their input into the country prior to their departure? Would Poland pay them at market rates before stripping them of the right to vote?

Now, don't you think it's ironic that a Brit would have a right to even discuss election laws in Poland?

z_darius
Their input into the country was in the past all the same. They retain the right to move back to Poland as Polish citizens though many boycott that right, why then should they have the right to vote? Why should they have the right to choose a government that governs other people and not themselves? How would they truly know what will be the effect of their vote if they are not living in that country that is governed by the people they voted for?

I don't think that it's ironic to have an opinion on the voting system in Poland because I have actually lived in Poland probably longer than a lot of Polonian Americans have. Therefore I would know the effects of what certain political parties would bring if they got into government. I would know that first-hand, rather than from second or third-hand information.

Point is that if you want to vote in Poland, maybe it would be a good idea to actually go back and live in that country. Being a part-time Pole serves no purpose to anyone who lives in Poland.


Does that matter? It's still a political problem in the first place why that person is on welfare. And being a political subject that person has the right to vote, maybe if he does vote he could actually change something about his situation. That my friend is called Democracy, if he hadn't the right to vote, if it was based on how much tax someone pays, then no American Pole would be able to vote at all.


For example?

Of course they haven't. Many of them have never lived in Poland full stop - they just fall for the sentimental nonsense and believe that Kaczynski is the saviour of Poland. I imagine hardly any of them will know or hear anything about Kaczynski's courting of the SLD now - and this is what pisses me off.

maybe they are not fooled by mass media bias

Komorowski got more votes in the first election. The final duel will be 4th of July.

Results in different regions
wybory.gazeta.pl/wybory/1,106728,8045581,Ostateczne_wyniki_I_tury___zobacz__jak_glosowaly_regiony.html

Very interesting that Komorowski won all województwo's in Western Poland, and Kaczynski won all in Eastern PL.

The biggest surprise is that Komorowski is verypopular in województwo warmińsko-mazurskie. Which is usually considered to be more conservative than several other regions where Kaczynski got a much better result.

It's not surprising at all.. PiS was always winning in the eastern PL because of it being more rural and less educated, more open to populist driveling and bywords..

It's not surprising. But as I said, interesting, because it confirms the general picture.

ok ok.. I think I just treat is as common knowledge because of it being same again and again, it just repeats.. it was similar in previous elections hence I'm not finding it that interesting....

So I change it to interesting for me. Because I don't have a clue what was the regional results in the last elections.

I don't think they even read the Polish media to begin with. The fact that they think that Kaczynski is a conservative tells you plenty about what they actually read.


Could it be because Komorowski is a known hunter, and thus appealing to the forest-dwellers there?


I'm wondering how they'll react now that Kaczynski appears to be desperate to do a deal with the SLD - he's fed them constant SLD = COMMUNIST = EVIL lines for so long that it would seem that he's at huge risk of alienating his simple fanbase who don't understand complex messages.

Anyway, it would seem that if you take around 66% of the Napieralski vote, add in the Korwin-Mikke supporters - then Komorowski should be over the 50% mark.

There is no present without the past. If that wasn't for that past you would be unlikely to ever visit Poland and pretend you understand the country and the nation.


Boycott?
According to Polish law, custom and tradition Poles are free to live wherever they can and they are still Poles.


They retain that right for the exact reasons you stated - they can return any time they want and they have the right to cast their vote in the shaping of the country they may return to. Their right to vote in Polish elections is certainly stronger than the right the UK citizens usurped when they destroyed cultures in pretty much every corner of this planet, and, to a lesser degree still continue that now.


Sometimes it takes a trip outside the home to fully see what it is and how it looks. Kinda like all those Brits who spent a couple years in Poland, speak hardly any Polish and then they consider themselves gurus on all thing Polish, no?


You know as much about what effect political parties have as anybody i the world who knows Poland or not - it's a guess.


And how would you know all Poles who live in Poland. How do you know in what degree they benefit (as they did in the past too) from those abroad? See, some of us send to Poland more than we would pay in taxes, should we live there.


You started with the financial contribution to the country so it evidently matters to you. Those on welfare contribute nothing. A lot of those who live abroad actually pay, indirectly, for those welfare heroes in Poland.


And I am certainly Poland's political subject. As a democratic country it does have a constitution and that constitution ensures that I can vote in Polish elections wherever I live and wherever there is a Polish voting booth. That constitution was voted for by democratically elected representatives of the nation. And that is democracy indeed.


Polish citizens who are property owners in Poland and thus do pay taxes there in one form or another. Plenty of those.

Since you are a specialist in Poland I'm sure you will have no trouble with this text in Polish describing the continuing aid by American Polonia, or, if you prefer Canadian Polonia.

wiadomosci24.pl/artykul/amerykanska_polonia_z_pomoca_dla_powodzian_w_polsce_141495.html

I'm sure you will find similar action by Polonia worldwide, including UK.

That is what being Polish is.
And yes, I did drive to Toronto to exercise my right as a Polish citizen and I cast my vote.

There are Poles who can vote in Polish elections and Canadians who can vote in Canadian elections. I suppose as long as you don't try to play both sides, there's no problem.

I fully believe that Poles that go out and seek another citizenship (swearing allegiance to another nation) should be stripped of the Polish citizenship.

When I listen to Komorowski, as painful as that is since he is so charismatic, I wonder why he chooses to speak in the manner mimickicking a priest giving a sermon?

These "educated' voters for PO/SLD must also wonder why this guy doesn't know the difference between 'public debt' and a 'budget deficit.' But I think they also wonder what is the difference.

If he wins in the end, he will go down in history as almost as great orator and statesmen as George Walker Bush, Jr, and that will be an achievement.

Oh, he did promise not to hunt bison anymore.

As to the Polish people living in US or Canada voting in Polish elections, discussions with 'foreign experts' here, and snotty teenage leftist 'real Poles' is sophmorish. Descendants of gulag victims living in Siberia are more Polish than you pissheads. Where is your Tusk's economic miracle he promised you?

And did you enjoy the money and goods Polonia sent to you when you were wiping you tushy with newspapers? Ungratful bastards.

I doubt that is the sole reason... I'm gonna stick with the uneducated mob thingie (not all of course - but most) easily swayed by Kaczynski's lies..

As for Ameripoles - my aunt lives in states and the polonia that lives in her closest area ,from what I know, is rasist and xenophobic (she is too), it's not a very big surprise for me that they voted for PiS...

what lies?elaborate please


You are lucky to save your pristine openness for others, must be a burden to have such a family, I hope aunt has children I hope!?

Well most of PiS voters in my family are life failures who are deep in debt and are barely making ends meet.


Nah she doesn't, but she's a PiS voter though..

I didn't enjoy anything that Polonia would like to send me, for the simple reason that I didn't get anything from them.
I was getting gifts from my Dutch and French family, but they don't have citizenship any more. Also they are not idiots, so probably wouldn't be voting psycho Kaczyński anyway.

I stand by the view that if you don't live in the country, you don't have (moral) right to force a president on people living here. It's just cheeky. I don't choose your American president, so why do you think it's okay to choose mine?

As for PO and PiS electorate - you can't deny that Kaczyński voters are in majority uneducated, from small villages, old. And you can see this even on their meetings - crude faces of simple people so full of hatred, such good Christians physically attacking journalists or anyone else with different views... Like here:


So sad...

Then she is life failure pry tell me!?

What about Kaczynski lies could be more specific?

Why don't they?


That is because you don't have American citizenship, edumacated simpleton.

Jolly well then, it's not that bad with her actually :) loosers stayed in Poland.


No. Because it doesn't make any sense at this point, we've already chosen our sides, and no one will change his mind because somebody says something. You will always have a retort to anything I'm gonna say and I'm gonna have a counter to anything you're gonna say. If we can't find the retort immediately we're just gonna google. Waste of time really (beside most of this stuff is already somewhere on these forums - search function).

US Polonian assistance was not limited to the PRL era. It went back to before during and after WWI, during the between-the-wars period and during and after WW2. In the 1990s Polonia launched the biggest ever petition drive to back Poland's bid for NATO membership. And most recently there were fund-raising drives across Polonia to aid flood victims.

Boy oh boy, lets go even deeper - there was time when there was only Polonia!!! Because there was no Poland.... damn those pesky bastards are actually helpful from time to time !!!

Exactly, people that haven't achieved anything in their lives, are very bitter about it and keep blaming anyone but themselves for their failure.


No idea, probably weren't interested in it. They are Dutch/French, not Polish.


Really? Oh dear, I'd never guess :D
You really don't understand irony, and you can't post anything without reffering to abuse. Such a typical PiS voter.

I pointed the fact that I don't vote in American elections to show how unfair it is that people, who are essentially American can vote in Polish election. American Polonia are Americans with Polish roots, not Polish! Especially second or third generation. I don't understand why we give citizenship to grandchildren of people who had Polish citizenship.

Just to give some example - my kids will have dual citizenship - Polish and British (after their British father). Their children will only be Polish, because my children, born in Poland, will not be able to pass British citizenship on. Poland should do something similar.

I just love when someone who barely speak Polish and hasn't done anything for this country talks about patriotism. Best example - all those Americans claiming that "busha" is a legitimate Polish word for "grandma" in some other thread. They don't speak Polish, the few words they know are mangled and wrong, but they know best!

And now excuse me, I have to go to work to pay ZUS and taxes for all those benefits scrounging PiS voters.

Well, frd, you seem more and more of a dumbass. I have similar conversations with POlsheviks like you in person.

I am surprised that you "educated' folks would not want vote for the most educated person running - Kaczyński. LOL

Not falling into recession was a miracle enough for my liking. You might also remember that Lech Kaczynski vetoed many reforms.


You disgust me - you take money from forum members, then use this forum to attack anyone who thinks differently from you. And you're in your 40's? How utterly tragic. I'd like to thank America too - one less macho moron in this country!


Too bad that most of the Polonia can't actually read it.

That is the lowest of low blows on this forum to date. I think you really disgust yourself.


And your daily read is what? You must have a favorite where you agree with the opinions. For example, I read with agreement and pleasure the opinions of Ziemkiewicz and Wildstein, and you?

Well educated? At my university the vast majority would not vote for Kaczynski. And it's in one of the most "traditional" parts of Poland.

It's a statistical fact that Kaczynski gets most of his votes in rural areas, where the level of education is low.

From my experience this is a rubbish. I know ppl who are very intelligent, well-educated and vote for Kaczyński. You would be suprise how many is them. I think its propaganda set up by spindoctors... and I, myself, say that - a huge objector of Kaczynski!