Return PolishForums LIVE   /   Archives [3]
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2010-2019 / News  % width 89

Poland may take the EU to court if they step up pressure -- Kaczyński


Polonius3 980 | 12277  
2 Jun 2016 /  #1
Poland may take the European Union to its own court over alleged rule of law charges, Kaczyński warns. If the European Union steps up its pressure on Poland over alleged rule of law violations, Warsaw is prepared go to the top European Union court to challenge an EU procedure launched against it earlier this year, the ruling party's feisty leader Jarosław Kaczyński warned. In January, the EU launched an unprecedented inquiry into whether Poland's Law nad Justice government had breached the bloc's democratic standards through its attempted reform of the country's constitutional court. The first use of the EU executive's new Rule of Law Framework, adopted in 2014, could eventually lead to sanctions such as a suspension of Poland's voting rights in the EU's executive. Kaczyński argues that no such clauses were found in the EU treaty signed by Poland. "If things gets fierce, we will demand our day in court," Kaczyński said. The dispute stems from changes Poland's new government introduced late last year to regulate the Constitutional Tribunal. The opposition claimed the changes were undemocratic and begna lobbying for EU intervention in the case.
jon357 73 | 22638  
2 Jun 2016 /  #2
to challenge an EU procedure

Normal. The EU have actually been very lenient to Poland and this is infuriating Kaczynski, who needs a casus belli for the next stage in his wicked plan.
Harry  
2 Jun 2016 /  #3
The EU have actually been very lenient to Poland

Yes, but that will sadly change.
Mr Wiech 2 | 38  
2 Jun 2016 /  #4
Good they have no right to pressure Poland.
OP Polonius3 980 | 12277  
2 Jun 2016 /  #5
very lenient to Poland

Au contraire, the EU treaty Poland signed did not envisage punitive intervention in Poland's internal affairs. Since you and your KODerast cronies support all anti-Polish actions, they may be lenient since they haven't invaded so far, but this is the first time any country has been subjected to such exrtreme bullying. That EU attitude is only grist to the mill of Brexit supporters.
jon357 73 | 22638  
2 Jun 2016 /  #6
they have no right

In fact 'they' ('we' actually, since Poland is a full and enthusiastic member) have that right and that duty. Poland signed up for the union willingly and after a public vote. As part of the highly beneficial step that Poland took, there are also obviously minimum expectations, ones that all the other countries in the union keep.
nothanks - | 627  
2 Jun 2016 /  #7
Love it. Dance on the soon to be grave of the EU. Union failed once they started forcing leftist ideals AND more importantly encroaching on the sovereignty of the individual states.

Question: What are the major differences between today's EU and living under a hypothetical 3rd Reich? Left censorship instead of right? Turning us into Muslims instead of "pure" Whites? Same crap, opposite side of the extreme social engineering coin. My ancestors did not perish so that we could be ruled by German leadership anyway.
delphiandomine 86 | 17823  
2 Jun 2016 /  #8
Dance on the soon to be grave of the EU.

Remember that PiS are counting on half a trillion złoty from the EU.

Their economic plans are essentially worthless without that cash.
nothanks - | 627  
2 Jun 2016 /  #9
Understood. This constant EU bullying just ensures PiS will most likely renew their stay in parliament. There is no better way in current day Poland to circle the wagons than foreign meddling.
dany_moussalli 13 | 259  
2 Jun 2016 /  #10
foreign meddling.

Why not consider it local meddling ? isn't controlling the media and hijacking the Constitutional Tribunal meddling with Polish law ?
delphiandomine 86 | 17823  
2 Jun 2016 /  #11
They believe that the law exists to suit the government, so they can freely break any laws that aren't compatible with what they want to do.

Quite totalitarian in their way of thinking, really. It's the same way that the PRL government believed that law was an extension of the government.
nothanks - | 627  
2 Jun 2016 /  #12
Over the past year Merkel has done worse to Germany than PiS to Poland and yet EU remains quiet. Why?

EU bureaucrats LET France break budget rules 'BECAUSE IT'S FRANCE', Juncker admits

"European Commissioner Frans Timmermans said last September that countries like Poland must get used to imposed demographic changes, accepting "diversity" as "the future of the world."

Change one single word and that is straight out of Hitler's mouth
dany_moussalli 13 | 259  
2 Jun 2016 /  #13
EU bureaucrats LET France break budget rules 'BECAUSE IT'S FRANCE', Juncker admits

EU not sanctioning France for having a poor economy isn't comparable to Kaczyński's case of closing down media and meddling with the Constitutional Tribunal.
nothanks - | 627  
2 Jun 2016 /  #14
PiS censored media organizations. Merkel is censoring individual opinions. Far worse

And I'd take tribunal manipulation over Million of undocumented aliens, massive tax hikes and complete breakdown at the local Police level.

Germany is out of control and yet EU stays quiet. Why?
jon357 73 | 22638  
2 Jun 2016 /  #15
KODerast

???

Au contraire, the EU treaty Poland signed did not envisage punitive intervention in Poland's internal affairs

Every step the EU as a whole are taking is strictly by the book. Although the rule of law is something that the appalling Kaczynski has shown he has no regard for, in this case he has to follow it.

Why not consider it local meddling ? isn't controlling the media and hijacking the Constitutional Tribunal meddling with Polish law ?

Absolutely. Poland is a full member state and the current President of the EU is Polish. And yes, the EU as a whole has a function to ensure the rule of law and the independence of the media.
dany_moussalli 13 | 259  
2 Jun 2016 /  #16
Hitler's mouth

Godwin's law... , well since you went there, don't you see that kaczynski's control on the media and meddling with the constitution as being hitleresque even worse... Stalinesque ?
delphiandomine 86 | 17823  
2 Jun 2016 /  #17
Don't forget that he earnt a PhD in communist law and started the process of becoming a public communist prosecutor.
dany_moussalli 13 | 259  
2 Jun 2016 /  #18
And I'd take tribunal manipulation over Million of undocumented aliens, massive tax hikes and complete breakdown at the local Police level.

If you see that other countries are screwing up that doesn't automatically justifies Poland's screw up
OP Polonius3 980 | 12277  
2 Jun 2016 /  #19
are essentially worthless

The EU's stick and carrot is not all that new, in fact it has existed since the dawn of civilisation. It was used by monarchies and republics, religous denominations and atheists, rightists. leftists and anyone else in power. Putin's Russia also charges different prices depending on how compliant and pro-Moscow the client countries are. Incentives, disincentives, rewards and penalties, deterrents, pressure, blackmail -- it's all old hat!

minimum expectations

Siding with one faction of an internal dispute was never stipulated in any of the EU treaties. Is telling a country how to run its court system and what to legislate those minimum expectations? Even the Venice commission insisted that parliament started the trouble and parliament should resolve the issue. If it wasn't for the sntichers' brigade, the Schetynas, Petrus and Kijowskis regularly embarking on snitching expeditons to Brussels, Berklin, Paris, Washingtion and lobbying for outside intervention, this whole mess would never have occurred.
Mr Wiech 2 | 38  
2 Jun 2016 /  #20
In fact 'they' ('we' actually, since Poland is a full and enthusiastic member) have that right and that duty.

Point to that law in the treaty and to specific paragraph that gives them that right.

Why not consider it local meddling ? isn't controlling the media and hijacking the Constitutional Tribunal meddling with Polish law ?

Why? Are u not ignorant about Poland, you were lecturing me on your Syria. I give you back!
delphiandomine 86 | 17823  
2 Jun 2016 /  #21
Even the Venice commission insisted that parliament started the trouble and parliament should resolve the issue.

So why hasn't parliament resolved it?

It's now crystal clear what happened. Timmermans communicated that the European Commission was willing to give Poland a final chance to resolve it, and Szydło proposed several solutions that were deemed to be acceptable and which would be brought in front of the Sejm to end the constitutional crisis. She then failed to do so - and so Poland was warned on Tuesday that a negative opinion was about to come. Poland still failed to end it, so the opinion arrived and that's that.

It's pretty clear that the European Union will now move to massively cut Poland's share of the cohesion funds in the next budget cycle - which will pretty much wreck the Morawiecki Plan. Other countries can easily be persuaded with a bigger share of the carrot - countries such as Hungary will quite happily accept a few billion extra in exchange for their support of a budget that cuts cash from Poland.

Is telling a country how to run its court system and what to legislate those minimum expectations?

There are democratic standards and norms to be obeyed.
Mr Wiech 2 | 38  
2 Jun 2016 /  #22
It's pretty clear that the European Union will now move to massively cut Poland's share of the cohesion funds in the next budget cycle

European Commisson can't shine Poland shoes its clear and I'm going to work for the new govremnt, already got a job with them. We;ll send them back to their doghauses where they can brak over a bone.
delphiandomine 86 | 17823  
2 Jun 2016 /  #23
You won't send anyone anywhere, because the EU cash is just too important.

Don't forget that PiS are also relying on funnelling plenty of that cash to their supporters. If the money doesn't materialise, those people will switch their allegiances to someone that gets them the cash.
Mr Wiech 2 | 38  
2 Jun 2016 /  #24
You won't send anyone anywhere, because the EU cash is just too important.

Meh, you'll see and you'll learn on u r mistake, I won't have time to post here starting my new job for the goverment. Night night is almost 23:00 need to get up early tomorrow.
nothanks - | 627  
2 Jun 2016 /  #25
We already voted Right-wing: illustrating we will not sacrifice safety and culture in exchange for materialistic objects. We cannot be bribed, unlike you gutless westerners.
gumishu 14 | 6202  
2 Jun 2016 /  #26
There are democratic standards and norms to be obeyed.

tell it to the UK or the Netherlands - they don't have Constitutional Courts and no court there can challenge a law passed by their parliaments
delphiandomine 86 | 17823  
2 Jun 2016 /  #27
We already voted Right-wing: illustrating we will not sacrifice safety and culture in exchange for materialistic objects.

You voted hard left-wing, not right wing.

As for "not being bribed", what was the 500+ programme then if it wasn't a financial bribe?
OP Polonius3 980 | 12277  
2 Jun 2016 /  #28
democratic standards and norms to be obeyed

Yeah, sure, Romania, Lithuania and Bulgaria epitomise the ideals of democratic rule. When the multinational corporations and their compliant pro-big-business bloc the EU find something to be in their interest, they can turn a blind eye to most anything. All the prattle about democratic standards, constitutionality and suchlike are window-dredssing for the gullible voting masses. You know you don't really belitve such bluster and codswalllop. Since time immemorial deals have been clinched not by parliaments or governments, not at conferences or ceremonial signings but by the Realpolitik powers that be in discreet backrooms without TV crews or snooping reporters about. In Poland's case it was not the filmed and photographed roundtable at the Presidential Palace but over drinks and food at Magdalenka. But since all things have to end, the quarter-century-long power monopoly of the Magdalenka clique ended last October.
jon357 73 | 22638  
3 Jun 2016 /  #29
Yeah, sure, Romania, Lithuania and Bulgaria epitomise the ideals of democratic rule

They, like Poland and Hungary, need some help, due to unfortunate instability; something in Poland caused entirely by the present 'government'.

Another day, another scandal...
nothanks - | 627  
3 Jun 2016 /  #30
Then are you calling Poles stupid for voting in government change?

Poland has made it this far without foreign help and we aren't willing to sacrifice short term help for long term manipulation.

We are Poles, we are here for the long haul. Poland is better today than when I was born. I will ensure my son can say the same.

Archives - 2010-2019 / News / Poland may take the EU to court if they step up pressure -- KaczyńskiArchived