If America is so bad, why move here?

Some did, there were two main groups of recent (if you can call it that. 40 to 25 years ago) Polish diaspora in US, the economic immigrants and political immigrants, in either case whatever they believed in be it the land of liberty or the land of milk and honey, that dream has vanished long time ago. Don’t kid yourself, those that seek their fortunes have a lot better opportunity in the EU these days, political ones no longer exist making the US irreverent and obsolete, no longer what you think it is or perhaps what it once was, period.

My family came here 20 years ago. What are you talking about? you guys pay 3 times more for gasoline, much more for life's basics (food, utility bills, clothing) more for cars home appliances almost everything. I got friends and family living in the UK, France and Ireland they're all frustrated saying they hardly got a penny to put away. You're remembering the EU before the recession (which was still off worse than the US) and not keeping in mind that at the same time life in US was still much better.

That explains you being stock in the Time Warp. Let me take a wild guess, you’re 20 now and never traveled abroad.


Yet somehow we manage, Amazing how that works, even if you consider yourself a middleclass in US, if you had to pay that much your check wouldn’t stretch enough to cover the very basics.


Stop nagging them for the lone and you won’t hear how tough they have.


So you believe.

this is hor$eshit and you know it.

poles left mostly because poland was a damn disaster and america offered the best chance to succeed.


no? then why do they keep coming from all over the world? how long can a country lie without anyone catching on? you really think they all come here for the mere fact that we advertise well?

tell you what: go ask the 10 million + poles living in the USA right now whether they want to move back to Holeintheground Zdroj or Crapfarmtown Gora to work and retire in and see which country they "believe" in now, still to this day.

you're either blindly jealous or just completely clueless. or both.

FACE IT POLAND, a lot of your people left for America and many of them are leading a life far better than you ever could have offered them in Poland. Stop arguing it.

This forum has no concept of calling a spade a spade. Thanks PennBoy for stepping up to the plate.

No i'm 29 and have been back to Poland 7 times over that time, also to Germany, Denmark, Canada, Mexico and Bahamas.


That's the thing you don't manage. Haven't you read what I wrote up top about friends even people on this forum have told me that it's expensive and hard to put any money away in Europe. In America you're able to it's just some people spend too much.


I see I got to you LOL


I know :-)

So you of all people should know how much things have changed in the last decade or so.


Imagine that, people bi***ing how tough life can be especially the last few years, didn’t the recession hit the states yet? Well it’s coming!


I have an alligator skin, you would have to do better than that to get under my skin. LOL


I see, denial is but a first step.


How’s so? Elaborate, prove me wrong.


Didn’t I make myself clear enough? I’m sorry, dude let me clarify, it’s not the world we’re talking about but Poland.


10 million + of Polish ancestors, who’s great, grate, grandparents’ left Poland when you were still pushing west.


Once again proof instead of empty statements, anyone can claim anything especially when they are deluded enough to believe it. Proof is in the putting so to speak.


Jealous? Because I don’t take your word for it? Clueless? Because I’m skeptical enough not to believe everything as to what some Yank might claim? Whose fault that might be I wonder? You Yanks have made plenty of outrageous claims lately, so being a little cautious is highly recommended, especially when it comes from a Yank. You should try it sometimes, blindly believing everything you are told put you in debt grater then your GDP.

After living in Poland for eight years, it's back to the States with my Polish wife and little kids. It's tough in the States and it's tough in Poland, but I just think that in the big picture there will be more opportunities in life for us and the kids in the States. No I don't hate Poland and don't want to say anything nasty. No I don't want to play the "you ABCs are so XYZ" game. Yes Europe has a greater population and GDP than the States, but the chances of my kids finding work in Spain or Denmark while only speaking Polish and English are pretty slim. No nastiness or petty remarks, it just comes down to math.

yep sounds about right.


Thats one of the big problems in Europe for English speakers, you only realistically have the UK, and boy you need to be on top of your game back here.

American pride has just spoken! ;)
There is something about, let's call it, a prestige of a country. People more eagerly come to a country which they associates with "cool" things. The USA used to be such country, now it's a bit in a decline due to a new image of it. People are bit fed up with American culture, it doesn't fascinate so much anymore.

I, for instance, am put off by behaviour of Americans on this forum and others. Thanks to this forum I learnt about how American health system works - that's another thing which put me off.

The only intresting thing which makes me want to go to the USA some day, as a tourist, are the wonderful landscapes of Nevada, Utah and Arizona. So the nature is what intrests me in whole America.


Haha, you wish we were jealous! But we are not. Sorry, you have deal with it and live with it ;)

Dunno, they want to go there for some reason? Not necessarily because they want to work or stay there. I know some people are really annoyed when they want to go and visit someone in USA and do some sightseeing and they can't get a visa. Several years ago there was a case where parents couldn't go visit their terminally ill daughter in USA, as far as I remember, because they couldn't get the visa.

Your posts looks like you assumed that every Pole want to move to USA. That's not true, it's not even a good place to go to work any more, UK and other European countries are much more preferred. They are closer, cheaper to get to and the pay is better. And you usually don't need a visa.

I don't think you would be considered rich in Poland if you hadn't own for example many real estates or stuff like that, the difference in salaries doesn't matter that much, you know. You would have to earn like you do in USA, live in Poland and then I guess you would be considered well-earning.

I think your statements are rather naive, I don't know - you are trying to provoke a discussion or what... Have you really never encounter such attitude before? When people criticise other nations or just complain thoughtlessly... or is it just because you haven't heard people criticising Americans?


I'll tell you why:


So have we.

Funny enough, I read and heard many times Americans doing things you mention, like overly criticising other nations without even knowing basic stuff about them, believing in Jewish conspiracies, criticizing obese people. I guess some people just behave like that and their nationality doesn't play a role in it. That's all.

That's very true. Good post ColdSteel :)

People b1tched that it got worse, from before, but it's still a lot better than in Europe.

Europe, the EU, is not a country but a loose union. No one pays anyone elses bills (unless it's some kind of emergency bailout package) all the countries money isn't put into one big pot for everyone to take how much they need whenever. Like I've said wages are similar but things are much more expensive in Europe, the bottom line how much you have left in your pocket counts.

prosze cie. my grandmother came to america from poland, she was born in 1916 and came to the USA in the 1930's. great great grandparents you say? what years are we talking about, the mid 19th century?


i'd love to hear your convoluted interpretation of the american health care system. my guess, it will be about as accurate as the rest of your interpretations of the USA.


I'm not going to make any grand assumptions but let's face it....if we had the whole story, you might think differently about the decision that was made to refuse them visas.

Skysoulmate have already explained it me so I believe I understand it well.

If you think it is fekking trivial, you are fekking wrong!

The Washington state ferry service isn't going to start turning away hefty passengers, but it has had to reduce the capacity of the nation's largest ferry system because people have been packing on the pounds.

More here: guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10007248

It means that next time I am in US, I might have a problem with boarding a ferry from NYC to Staten Island because of obese Americans. That will be a real nuisance.

We know all about it 2/3 of Americans are overweight and 1/3 obese. Do you know what's the criteria to be labeled overweight? weighing just 1 pound more than what than that 5 or 10 pound weight frame for your height states.

Oh, shyte! Thanks for this crucial info!

@jacobsgold

Polish people like to whine about stuff. Don't take this too personal. We as a nation feel obligated to whine and when there is nothing to whine about, we still whine because things seem too good to be true. kapish?

i can tell you're Polish too, cause you join PF just to whine about Polish who whine about the US. See, It’s pure madness.

Haha no! A pound or 10 difference isn't even noticeable, especially if you're tall. My BMI states at 6'6 I should weight around 220 lbs. do you know how I looked when I weighted that? Like a tall toothpick. I weight 240 now put on some muscle now I look like a real man. Obesity I understand, but 10 or 20 pounds over is nothing.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on what a BMI says. Damn thing is a waste of time.

Incidentally, my wife and I are Americans, and I for one enjoy living in the United States. Its present-day drawbacks (while many) still do not tempt me to seek out "greener pastures" in, say, socialist Northern Europe or anywhere else for that matter:-)) The reasons I feel this way are that I believe that the bad phase we're going through and have been going through for the last twenty-five years or so can be remedied by more of the Roosevelt-style New Deal culture we once had when indeed America WAS the beacon of the world.

Pollyannish? Definitely. But, hopefully sooner, rather than later, the truth must out!!

Precisely my point, that’s 80 years ago and a good portion of those 10 million + you speak of even earlier than that. Your ancestors probably read about Butch Cassidy and Sundance kid as current events in the newspapers of the time, some probably even remembered the very beginning of the outlaw era. Your grandparents’ arrival happened to coincide with American Gangster era. I’m sure a lot has changed since, your generation leads a totally different lifestyle to that of your ancestors but in your puny little minds and understanding of Poland, Poland stayed at standstill, somehow frozen in time. Your ignorance about Poland and your countryman rears its ugly head in every comment you make. The ignorance itself I can understand, you being isolated and through propaganda by your very own government of the former foe left an image of the lands east of the Iron curtain as some gray medieval landscape full of misery. I can even tolerate it, as I don't particularly give a damn as to what you might or might not think of me, even your dumb Polack jokes don't bother me. Yes I'm that confident in myself. it’s not your fault you’ve been thought that but the contempt with which you speak about Poland I do mind.

What’s the point in bringing up your ancestry here? Is it relevant to the debate at hand? Your mindset is that of a Yank. I consider you as much my countryman as I consider my cousin 10 times removed part of my immediate family. You say America is the greatest; everyone is jealous of you and envies you every time an opinion other than favorable about your country is expressed here. Everyone should worship you and imitate you in every aspect, I say otherwise. Get on with the program and let’s discuss the issue at hand as started by OP who’s so full of himself that he can’t get over the fact that not everyone is of the same opinion about his native country as he is, where the slightest criticism is an insult. Anything less than outright worship of America is somehow perceived as an attack and personal insult, get real. Talking about insecurities and mommy issues, yet his own insults are to be tolerated, Hypocrites, the lot of you.

All that talk of how Polish people like to whine might be true after all. Through observation I have discovered that mostly it’s the first, second, third, and fourth generation American-Poles as well as Polish Jews on this forum that do all that whining. Then again; in my mind you’re not Polish at all but Yanks of Polish extraction or Yanks of Polish-Jewish ancestry, so who’s doing all that whining then?

Generally speaking, the reason for that is because Europe has a safety net whereas America doesn't.

I was reading recently about recently widowed women in NYC going hungry - that doesn't tend to happen in Europe.

And it's going to happen more and more, Delphiandomine, as the Republican Right tries to chip away at the New Deal, piece by piece. I can even remember when urban public libraries were quiet, respectable bougeoise establishments for those wishing to sit ina civilized fashion and simply read. Today, they're social services centers/urinals and often foul-smelling places for the unwashed homeless, the flotsam and jetsam of our wonderful society.

Oh Franklin!!! Where are you when we need you most?!

And you believe everything you read? Recently?

Poles moved before when USA was a good a country. Poland was in Communism for years and people were sick of it.

Today this has largely stopped (when speaking of Poles) as far as I know.

The other countries people come to USA to escape their situations. Whether it be Muslims or East Asians.

The reality is though that America is becoming less free yearly. 45 million people are on food stamps.
The middle class is dying and the rich are getting more money.

Its quite amazing that nasty country is still alive today with its 16 trillion debt (or whatever the number is).

Fuzzy - this is actually quite ironic (especially for all those poor folks that want to come to USA to live and can't) but it would actually be quite easy to move to USA for work as I do work for international company that has big facility in USA - this is still a possibility (in fact here in South Africa I'm becoming a bit of "dead wood" and it's been hinted to me that I should consider relocation in next few years...).

But what I'm talking about is going to USA for holiday - I know this shouldn't be a problem either, I just have to get the papers, bookings and all together, but like I said - I'm not really a typical holidaymaker, I usually book one or two nights after arrival and then go as I please. Hubby is a biker and would like to do route 66 (or part of it...) - can't imagine booking all the accommodation en-route... It's just so frustrating that I need the stupid visa!

Correct.. about 40million us citizens live in poverty, there is poverty in Poland too, but Mr D please explain the safety net in poland/eu? first time I heard of it.

Well, in the old EU-15 countries, all of them have welfare safety nets. All of them more or less guarantee you income if you have none - and it's enough to get by on.

Poland is actually one country that works more like America - there's not much handed out here. Sadly, the pensions system is where the money goes, so Poland isn't actually better for it.

No, they don't want others to imitate them. They are very upset of Poles being dressed according to "Western fashion" (I have no idea what's "Western fashion" but they use such term), haha.

Fuzzywickets problem is different. He is a classic naysayer. Because he has some Polish ancestry he is embarassed everything Polish: language, English words in Polish language, music, behaviour. Even if others don't mind or don't see anything silly, he does. Polish hip-hop ridiculous (of course some are ridiculous but one can apply it to some American rappers). At all Polish music is not original or ridiculous or both... because it's in Polish and is not an American rock which he prefers. Polish tourism is a fancy... because you can see the same things in other countries. Polish image is vodka, slutty girls and dirt... have you seen movie "Hostel"?

Any idea about Poland, he is always nay, nay, nay.


Yhat's very true. I found it several times on this forum.
You know what makes me laugh? They all claim to be against immigrants but when say you don't want to emigrate to their wonderful country they are all offended and say that you probably have a distorted view of the USA.