And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK

Ease off, professor. :)

When I'm in Poznan I'll buy you a pint or two in the pub of your choice, and we can talk about Irvine Welsh's novels and short stories. Sounds alright?

:)

You know, I haven't read very much by him. Filth was fantastic, however - and I suspect not too far from the truth.

Poles are citizens of their own nation - a true and fully functioning democratic republic that has been hard fought for to retain.

Brits on the other hand have always been subjects of whoever their crowned rulers of the day have been. It's the same for them today as it has been since 1066. No wonder there is anti-Polish sentiment in the UK; it is sheer envy.

No offense, but I think you exaggerate, brother.

It's good that Brits and Irish come to Poland and make it their home. The more of them the better.

Our relations may be verbally tempestuous at times but that's okay - that's how it should be.

Szacun to you, brother.
:)

Poles are citizens in their own nation? When was the last time Poland was a fully independant nation? The German led EU are running the Polish puppet government at the moment, before that the Russians did, before that the Germans did..Russians next?

The UK is it's own master, this is why the EU nations hate us. Why on earth would the UK (head of the commonwealth an approx 1/3 or the planet) envy little Poland? Get real!

Of course the press here is anti-polish! I think it is planned, and british media treat Poles as a whipping boy, someone to despise and blame for all the bad things. So that society would pour all the negative emotions about economical crisis on them, and not on the politicians, banks or corporations. It would be politically incorect to blame black people, and they won't write so mucj about Islam, becouse someone might blow them up, and the Poles are an easy target. And so many honest, hardworking Poles, who were forced to move to england becouse of being poor, are judged unfairly. It's just like in nazi Germany in the 30's, where newspapers have bulidt the hatered toward Jews. And so many british people is buying into it with so much pleasure. Disgusting.

Too bad Daily Mail only writes about Poles in a bad way, always picking on the wrong things polish people said or done. Never anything about artistic or academic achievements (that's the one thing we can be proud of, even though we are a poor country and not much money is spent on academic research), never anything about Poles working hard and contributing to UK's economy. I have friends who work here as engineers, and I know peolple with academic education working in factories, for minimum wage, for 12 hours a day, the jobs Englishmen don't want. And still Englishmen are acusing Poles of stelig jobs. The polish people I know work hard, are honest, pay their taxes, contribue to society. And they are treated like garbage by the media and british simpletons, who really believe they are better people just because they happened to be born in the UK.


Thanks for this post! You, sir, gave me back my faith in humanity after reading some posts on this forum..

I must admit I had similar thoughts, although it can't be really compared to what happened in the Nazi Germany in the 30's. But there are some similarities. Not only in the UK, I've read some stuff about the Netherlands too*.

However, I don't think it's planned in any way. It's just prejudices. And yes, I have this impression that people of other races and Muslims are off limits while it's OK to, let's say, target Poles.

I guess there's usually a need for a scapegoat during a crisis. Look at Greece nad the Golden Dawn...
You know, Poles are new kids on the block in the UK, unlike people from India, for example. And there's a lot of them.

I think it may take some time until both Poles and the British people get use to each other. Maybe then there will be a different climate... or not, I don't know.

*For any Westerners ready to voice their disbelief - read this:

Dutch employment agencies are sounding the alarm : the Poles are leaving the Netherlands and did not return . The country of tulips do not feel welcome, will return to their homeland or to move to Germany. And the Poles are yet hard-working people and deserve a lot of respect . Such a picture emerges of a large text published on Tuesday ( 14.06 ) in a widely read free newspaper Metro .

The huge headline on the front page showing hundreds of thousands of copies of the Dutch Metro announces : Not enough Poles in employment agencies . A few pages later, he found a long text about Polish workers in the Netherlands.

I think that people are quite frustrated in UK ( unemployment, rising house prices , reduced benefits....) and they need some scapegoats. Polish are perfect for it. They are white so political correct jobs worthy ' fascists' can't accuse press of racism, they in general work hard so it annoys work-shy locals, they are quite often well educated so annoys them even more.

Am I right in stating you've never been to the UK, Paulina?


Yes, people must be really frustrated in the UK. They are leaving in their droves for Poland ..... hold on, have I got something wrong here?

Yes, you are. I've never been to the Netherlands and Greece either. Also plenty of British people haven't been to Poland.
And? :)


Yes, you have, noone wrote the British people are leaving in their droves to any country :)

Douglas Murray fillets mass immigration in this clip. Well worth a watch
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hDGejzIi8ts

It is relevant as the UK you read about in Polish newspapers or hear about on Polish Forums may be significantly different to the UK as it actually is.

You can't really write about UK racism/supposed Polonophobia unless you've been there yourself and experienced it for yourself.

Otherwise, you don't really know.

A bit like Delphi pontificating on the prosperity of Poles he appears to know little about.

I.B.:
They are leaving in their droves for Poland ..... hold on, have I got something wrong here?


If things are so terrible in the UK as Iwonka describes them, then why have so many Poles chosen to live there? If she's 'got it right' then the population movement would surely be the other way round.

For Australia and few other countries.

Murray doesn't have any negative views about Poles in that video, except that he thinks that there are too many immigrants in the UK, and that they don't integrate well enough.

But this isn't Poles fault - they work here legally and they pay taxes, they contribute to the society! You should blame your politicians - and do you really believe UK politicians are SUPRISED by how many immigrants arrived in the UK? If you do, you are very naive. Politicians want immigrants in the UK, to have cheap half-slaves in their factories, in the jobs british people don't want to do. To have better trained and educated work force, who will work more then english people for less money. Ofcourse politicians won't admit it publicly, because nobody would vote for them. And polish people are desperate to feed their families, and they still come here, even though they are scape-goat of the british media. Really, you are so easy to manipulate - media show you the whipping-boy and you are all too ready for the witch hunt, and never even wonder if it's not the politicians fault that there is a crisis..


You are right. I'm in th UK for the short time, but all the people I have met were nice and I didn't sense any xenophobia. I hope majority of british people are good people and they accept immigrants when they see them contributing to the society and being good people. That's why I was so shocked after reading some Daily Mail articles, that souded like some mad nazi pamflet, making Poles look like monters guilty of every possible sin. I was also shocked by some posts on this forum. I know some of the POles that live in the UK are not the greatest people, and that some Brits that met them might be prejudiced. But most of the Poles I know are decent hard-working people, paying taxes and doing the jobs english people don't necessery like to do.How can anyone be xenophobic towards a good man that only wants to worl homestly and lead a normal life?

I think you are exaggerating about the Daily Mail. I honestly don't believe British citizens (generally) see Poles in the UK as 'scapegoats' for all their problems. Of course, journalists have to write stories that sell newspapers, but that's about as far as it goes.

This forum, for some reason or other, tends to attract idiots.

Most Brits are 'OK', so are most Poles, of course there is a minority who are not, but they are best ignored.

No one wonders why a large group of immigrants would be viewed negatively. That's human nature. But the Pole looks at English society (London no longer native Brit) and says you should be grateful you are getting European immigrants.

He doesnt speak negatively about any group or nationality, but Europes current immigration policies. People are p*ssed off about the sheer tidal wave of never ending immigration. And cut the bollix about nazis, daily mail and xenophobia. If Poland was swamped with immigrants, at the same level that the U.K. is - your streets would run red with blood.

The Brits are already a minority in their own capital city - by 2050 they will be a minority in their own land. During the boom or good times in the U.K a study conducted claimed that immigration is of little or no benefit to the U.K. Now, in a recession, its simply unsustainable.

Hopefully the piigs continue to f*ck up so we bring down the EZ.

I believe he speaks negatively abour Romanians. You really didn't read a thing of what I wrote, did you.

Do you really think that UK politicians make decisions about immigration just as a gift to immigrants? To give these poor people some money, becouse of the goodness of their hearts? Are you that naive? POlitics are about cynical economic calculation, and nothing else. Immigrants are here, bacause politicians have decided that it is beneficial to the UK. Ofcourse I understand it might be unnerving to some UK citizens, but you can whine all wan, and the politicians won't change a thing, bacause the state of affairs is beneficial to the UK in their opinion (cheap and qualified work force for bisness and factories, and new taxpayers to pay for british pensions and benefits). Poles work and pay their taxes in the UK, so they EARN and DESERVE their benefits or whatever, they aren't being given any free presents. Of coure politicians will pretend that they see the problem, and that they care about it, so they win some voters, but they won't do anything about it. the truth is that Europe is getting older, and there is less ans less young people who will contribute to pensions, etc. That's why alll western countries have immigrants - bacause the politicians have forseen this problem, and they are trying to solve it.

And polish streets somehow don't run with blood even though for the last 20 yers we have been robbed by our politicians and western corporations.

And I think nazi comparison is very accurate - trying to find a scapegoat in the face of a crisis - it is really exactly like in the 30's crisis.

Its actually the right wingers that want to push the failed policy of multiculturalism in order to dilute any remaining sense of community or cohesion (helps us resist corporate bad behaviour), create a more homogenised market across Europe and, of course, to help drive down wages so profits can be higher. No overtime rates, no sick pay, non-compliance with wage rates, workers live on site or in a 'workers house' further reducing pay, a compliant workforce who are easily scared, no unions. Its a capitalists wet dream. The misguided lefties are their rabid lapdogs who will pounce on any 'racist' heretic who questions mass immigration and how it is detrimental to the working class. The class the lefties claim to be fighting for.

Which ks why slugs like Sutherland are some of mass immigrations biggest cheerleaders -


Do immigrants enjoy everlasting life on earth? Do they grow old? Will they require pensions? What then? Imporg more immigrants to pay for the older immigrants pensions? That is neither sound nor sustainable policy. Its economic illiteracy.


See above. Nobody under 40 is going to ever receive a sizeable state sponsored pension. It us on us to squirrel away a few nuts now, for our future.

You claim that there is nothing we can do and scoff at us as if it is some sort of victory. Then you claim that a sizeable amount of people are Nazi like. Heres the thing. Europeans want immigration severely restricted -

If politicians continue to throw their hands in the air and claim that there is nothing they can do - people become more annoyed and more radical. That is why people are angry. It is not a personal slur aimed at you, but the policies and the endless tidal wave of immigration.

I have to agree 100%, that is exactly what the politicians are after. What I don't understand is why the hatered is focused on immigrants, not politicians. Immigrants just want to live and work in peace, well, at least most of them do. There were offered an opportunity and they took it.


I guess it is better to solve the problem for 20-30 years then not to solve it at all. And the immigrants have childeren, when they are offered better economic conditions than in theri home country. Actually, there is no good solution to an ageing society - apart from accepting immigrants and hoping they will have children what can you do? You can't force people into having children, and you cannot shoot old people. If you wouldn't have immigrants you would have to pay higher taxes, or pay for medical treatment, or have less benefits, and I guess you wouldn't like that either.


It absolutely isn't a scoff, it is merely a grim stating of a fact that the politicians don't care for you or for me, and they will do what they consider necessary. If you, as a society, ccould force your government into creating more fair and even society, like in scandinavian countries, that would be great. The problem is, what would mean the richest people and the biggest bisnesses in the UK would have to start contributing more to the society, pay bigger taxes. But I don't think they want it to happen, because of the reasons you stated above.


Ok, so why don't the politicians make some laws that would take care of immigrants that don't contribute to the contribute to the economy. They should be deported. What I don't understand is pointless hatered towards ALL the immigrants, instead of taking some practical steps, instead of adressing your politicians with this problems. Actually it is what the politicians want.

Actually it is what the politicians want.

I actually feel sorry for people who believe that the government will provide them with a pension, generations from now.


Sweden? Sweden shall be the first European nation were the natives shall become a minority. Sweden is a liberal madhouse. Where the natives are not educated, but indoctrinated in how to feel and what to believe.

For a taste of the Swedish nightmare, visit Malmo. Switzerland is the only European country were people actually get a say in its immigration policies.

To be clear here. I do not hate individual immigrants. I am sure that you are a good and decent lad. Its the policies and governmental dithering that irks me.

Really? You mean what you get from media can sometimes distort the reality and influence the way people think about a country and it's people? :O

You remember that guy who said that people should stay away from Euro 2012 or they will end up in a coffin? ;O
bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00tl1z1

You know who went back home after the Euro 2012 in a coffin? A white Irishman. Who knows, probably even a Catholic. Noone killed him, he was so drunk he fell into a river and drowned. He wasn't killed, he wasn't robbed.

Of course the media distort the reality. When they give you only negative facts you can become prejudiced. Russians used to often complain about Polish media, for example. That they only showed and wrote about negative things from Russia and in this way they fueled the negative stereotypes. Not only right wing media, liberal media too. And they were right. I suspect ffg can be right too (and I had my share of reading of the articles in your newspapers like "Daily Mail", etc., I've also watched BBC World and Euronews during the Euro 2012 and I could compare - the difference was striking).


Hi, ifor ;D


Ifor, I don't think you've understood what we're talking about.


Of course, they are. But crisis and human nature has it's laws. It ain't always pretty, no matter what country is affected.
Lenka wrote once on chat that her friend living in the UK had her appartement door destroyed because she's Polish. Goofy (also in the UK) wrote that some Polish shop in his neighbourhood was attacked. So it's not like such things don't happen at all, I guess.

Given what happened in Gdynia a few months ago, how was the programme inaccurate?


Or you haven't fully understood my point.


Bad things happen everywhere. But you will only know what a place is really like by actually going there and seeing for yourself.

Really? And you know that how? I remember talking to the Irish ambassador about the investigation over a pint or two and the version of events told to him was most certainly not the one which you're telling. But hey, blame it entirely on the foreigner rather than admitting any possibility at all that any Pole might at any way even slightly at fault.


Would those be the same Russians who got the shiit kicked out of them by Polish 'fans' in Warsaw?


It was made by non-Poles and said less than pleasant things about some Poles; therefore certain Poles feel that they simply must attack the words/work of the non-Poles.

All he says is nothing but a common sense. the fact that such common sense is seen as radical or a rare commodity on political firmament means that immigration policy and in fact the EU immigration policy is based on ideology not on common sense or interests.

:)

You see, I can comment this in the same way, innit.

Btw, I'm not commenting on the programme alone, since I haven't even seen it. Sol Campbell advised people not to come to Euro 2012 because they might end up in a coffin. Noone ended up in a coffin except a white Irishman and there was one racist incident by Poles during the Euro 2012 (very blown up in the BBC World and only mentioned in Euronews) and as far as I know, no racist incidents by Ukrainians whatsoever.


OK, I'll try to explain. "Listen carefully, I shall say this only once..." lol

You wrote: "If things are so terrible in the UK as Iwonka describes them, then why have so many Poles chosen to live there? If she's 'got it right' then the population movement would surely be the other way round."

I don't understand how is that an answer to what we are writing about?
Noone wrote that things are worse in the UK than they are in Poland. Even during the crisis the UK is still a richer country than Poland (just as the rest of the West).

However, there's a global economic crisis and things, I suspect, are worse then they were before the crisis? Or not? The UK hasn't been affected by the crisis in any way?

If it was, then probably that's why 10iwonka10 writes: "I think that people are quite frustrated in UK ( unemployment, rising house prices , reduced benefits....) ". Notice that she wrote "I think".


Do you live in the UK now, ifor?


I've read about it in an Irish newspaper.


Harry, what on Earth are you talking about?
There was an investigation.
He had no marks on his body, the wallet was there, no money, no credit cards were stolen.


Harry, I don't even know how to comment on this. I'm not Polonius or kondzior or whomever.
I have an impression that it's you and some other Westerners who are convinced that no Westerner can do any wrong and your media are completely and utterly perfect o_O A Pole who says sth negative about anything in the West or the Western media is wrong by default, it seems.


No, but that's a great example of what I was writing about - the media fueling the stereotypes and the bad emotions by giving facts, yes, but mainly those bad ones.

You see, Harry, I've just admitted in my previous post that Polish media aren't perfect. I can see what they were doing wrong.

I wouldn't see it however if it wasn't pointed out to me by... Russians.
Ffg pointed out sth about your tabloids. She's Polish, so she must be wrong?


*sigh*
I see you haven't understood much either.

I think my posts are pretty balanced, so I don't understand what's your problem, guys.
This is my message: "Of course the media distort the reality. When they give you only negative facts you can become prejudiced."
That's all.
No media are completely free from some bias.

He was interviewed extensively by the Irish media after the young mans death and he said it was an accident. What evidence has been unearthed to suggest that it was not?

At the cemetery, buried in Blessington James Nolan , an Irish fan who came to the Polish Euro 2012 and lost in Bydgoszcz. His body was found several days later in Brdo . Man bade farewell to family, friends, players of the Irish national team. At the funeral came close to 1,000 people - gives irishtimes.com .

The coffin was carried from the church father James and his brother Andy .

In some other articles (I don't remember whether those were in an Irish newspaper or in some British tabloid) I've read that his friends were so drunk that they went back to the hotel without him and realised he's not with them only in the morning, as far as I can remember. They started calling him on his cell phone but he wasn't answering the phone so they went to the police and that's how the search began.

Thanks for providing three articles which don't say a word about him being drunk. Nice work. So not a thing to support your claim that he was "he was so drunk he fell into a river and drowned."


It was an accident: it was not one caused by the Irish man being "so drunk he fell into a river and drowned".