Polish is Britain's second language, says UK report

no, it goes back to canute

From my experience they are more poor than brave.


Thats just ridiculous - branding nations like that.

[*********************** same is true today. And I believe majority of that half a million Poles in the UK are well aware of that. The English are not welcoming but they are polite. It takes a while to get used to that cold politeness but once you've realised you will never make friends with them (not the sort of friends you could make with probably any other nationals) and have come to terms with that, you stop getting frustrated and just live peacefully.[/quote]

There are people here in America, Americans, who even though are friendly to me, are my "friends" but I know they will never look at and think of me as being an equal to them and a true friend. This is mostly in areas where there is a large immigrant community and I guess they feel threatened. The second type of Americans, usually upper middle class, is very polite and would never say anything derogatory but again will never see u as an equal to them, American born, in addition the social status and their wealth creates an even further gap. The third type, is people who are not prejudice at all and don't care where u come from. These are usually the younger generation who have friends of multi ethnic backgrounds, and date people who are of different nationalities then themselves.

In a world where money equals survival all people are in way money driven.

@Tim Bucknall
I think I know what your Latvian friend means. I find people in England a lot friendlier than in Poland - in the shops, offices, medical centres etc. But when it comes to personal relations I find some sort of coldness that is incomprehensible to me. As if there was so much of friendliness on the outside but when you want to go deeper there is a wall. It's the opposite in Eastern Europe - people will be reserved, even harsh at first, but once you know them better they will be warm, welcoming, they will let you in to their hearts.

romantic tosh

[********************] But when it comes to personal relations I find some sort of coldness that is incomprehensible to me. [/quote]


How many English people have you two actually met? I've never heard such rubbish in all my life.
I wouldn't class myself or anyone else I know as being cold and unfriendly!
But don't let that stop you tarring a whole nation with the same brush.

[********************] It's the opposite in Eastern Europe - people will be reserved, even harsh at first, but once you know them better they will be warm, welcoming, they will let you in to their hearts.[/quote]

I can think of Poles who are very warm on the outside and cold hearted trash on the inside. Perhaps some are more reserved with strangers because of the history of the country. Poland is not Eastern Europe btw.

[********************] I've learnt to tolerate the English at work[/quote]
You know what, hate us and the place so much, go home love.
Its really quite simple.
Come here with an attitude,dont expect a welcome mat.
Sorry, was that not warm hearted enough for you ?
Tough, we can smell opportunists at a mile,maybe thats why people just dont like you when they get to know you more....

surely i can brand my own country after living here all my life?

as for Italy i don't think its a particularly new or controversial idea that they're one of the most child-friendly countries in Europe..

i had a real insight into how Brits are seen today, it wasn't meant maliciously but it was clear enough.
i was really taken with a cartoon in angora so i used it as my signature on another forum, when a Polish forum member pm'ed me to find out why i was using a polish sig, he was friendly enough but he was amazed and surprised that a Brit would want to learn Polish, he was very pleased but said "you must be in a minority"

a Ukranian friend was similarly bemused when i said i wanted to visit Lvov, i had to convince him by namedropping Petlura, the Polish childrens choir and the Armenian cathedral!

re: British ignorance
it almost seems to be that some Brits had never encountered Poles before 2004, i guess i took for granted that everyone had the same experience as myself.

my town is close to a mining area in North Staffordshire that employed many many Poles since 1940, they were just always around.
i didn't meet any Black people til (iirc) the final year of primary school. but i knew Poles even before Mum went to work for some. i probably once asked my parents why a boy at school had a "funny" name, it was explained to me and i said "oh, ok" i think i thought of them like Welsh people, not exotic at all.

there were people with Polish names on TV, like (gardening expert) Stefan Buczaki (sp?) (Cancer specialist) Dr Karel Sikorski and writing in the papers like Nina Miscow. there were Polish teachers at school and every street seemingly had at least one elderly Polish man with a heavy accent and an intriguing history!

my Dad was/is pro-Polish as a result of his army experiences with displaced Poles in Germany and having them around when he was a kid but even before i was old enough to absorb that, they were just a part of normal everyday life. even my maternal Grandmother who to be honest hardly knew what day it was and had zero interest in the world could be heard saying things like "the Poles suffered terribly" like a lot of her generation she could be pretty racist, but the Poles were a special case!


#spot the stupid mistake

No need to get touchy, friends. No offence meant here for one second


I'm romantic. I'm reserved on the outside, but I'm soft and warm under the surface like a bowl of pudding. I let people into my heart far too easily. I'm not a diplomat, I show my true self. The English often see it as a lack of polish ;) I see them as artificial.


I'm sure you aren't, dear. I'm talking about generalisations and I thought the whole forum was about generalisations


Hate? Oh dear, I couldn't be farther from that. I'm actually enjoying the variety of human perspectives and ways of expression. If I don't identify with something/someone, it doesn't mean I hate it. On the contrary, it makes me curious. By the way I'm starting to think that the virtue of tolerance is not so close to the English heart after all. It's probably more of an almost superhuman ability to bear with what they find difficult to tolarate. That must lead to frustration, which would explain why you read "hate" in my post.


bless her.. :) She must had gotten influenced by the Polish national sense of uniqueness, which Poles can't justify; all they know is that vague impression it has something to do with heros, uprisings, the pope, Pilsudski and generally being the Messiah of Nations ;)

Tolerate,no,definatly not a natural state for us.
Tolerate is such a condisending attitude,its not a *virtue*.
We either like you or we dont,it really is that simple.
So id say your post came across as arrogant rather than hatefull.
The trouble was you say once people get closer to you they dont like you very much,Id say thats down to you or who you chose to get close to,not some silly notion of a national/ethnic universal attitude.


Ditto,Polish Doctors,Polish Teachers and Polish class mates not to mention all the Polish people I quite naturally met in Poland ,its just a shame that so many who came here in the last few years are such whingey, woe is me bu**ers :)

The word "tolerance" is often being used as synonym for "bearing with", in which case it's not a virtue. True tolerance, the ability to accept different opinions and points of view without feeling threatened or becoming aggressive, is a virtue by all means.


:) I never said such thing! God forbid if that was true... I said I find the English people not as easy to make friends with as other nations. You made me think though - because the very first English people I met in this country were not the nicest bunch and I admit I may be approaching the English with less trust and openness than I usually have for people.


We will never beat the English on that :) But I must agree that many, many Polish people who've come to Britain are actually a bit... chavvy. Sorry for supplying you with something you had enough of anyway

My wife returned from a short visit to London on Sunday, during the day she attended Church in a North London suburb, the mass was in Polish, she was quite shocked at the level of poverty she witnessed within the Polish community, Polish people openly begging for money and informing they had not eaten for three days, she commented she had not seen this level of poverty in Warsaw. Why would people leave Poland if they had a job and a comfortable living, it is no suprise the Polish immigrant's in the UK are economic migrants in search of greener pastures.

[********************] I said I find the English people not as easy to make friends with as other nations[/quote]

A bit of a shallow statement there cb88, there are good and bad in all nations, it depends on which path you walk, I have had the pleasure of meeting some of the most amazing people in Poland, people I am humbled by their generosity, goodness and high intelligence, there are others I would cross the road to avoid. The same goes for my native land also.

Always keep an open mind, a chance encounter may change the direction of your future.

[********************** will never beat the English on that :)[/quote]
Damn right,its our national sport,but, you guys are certainly close contenders for the crown :)
[********************* said I find the English people not as easy to make friends with as other nations.[/quote]
haha, we dont have a *national* charactor,but we do have certain regional charactors....let me guess, you live down south,somewhere near London surrounded by uptight bu**ers? Get your self up to Yorkshire :)

Did you live all over the country? Different areas have different people.


i wasnt aware of that.


It would seem these are the Poles that went to England - couldn't find work and got trapped. I know the mental health institutions are seeing significant increases in Polish patients.

Many of these people may have been motivated by the Polish TV series Londynczycy, if you recall droves of Brits moved out to Spain after the UK Tv series Eldorado. Do you believe the Polish media should do more to highlight the hardships Polish economic migrants will face in the UK, especially now when the work void has been filled.?

cant agree with that,ok they are good at pinching the cheeks of small children and making them cry then giving them a nasty boiled sweet to cheer them up but try and get around your average Italian city with a child in a pushchair, do some shopping for essentials, and see how 'child-friendly' it is (as one example).

Bloody hell thats an old one, i remember catching an episode or two, one of the lead characters is now a film critic for the BBC.

Seeing as my Polish brother in law and his wife came here only last year im quite in touch with the hardships facing Poles. Many of his co workers are and have been working minimum wage jobs for the various agencies commonly ran by Pakistanis and Indians, some of them have been doing nothing but agency work for years. The work seems to be there if you look hard enough but its far from rosey.

absolutely
whereas it was very easy for them to find work 2004 - 2007
these days is a different story

a typical example is with
local shops
before poles could work there
now middle class women need to work in the co op too
because their husbands lost their city jobs

Of course, and if this can cheer you up I'll tell you that one person that I respect and admire so much that I could call her my role model in life - is English. I'm not judging people by their nationality, just talking about some general impressions. It's always nice to get some feedback and see what others' opinions are


That's right! :)) Would Liverpool be any better?

How are languages like manx doing? Communities still speaking them?

Manx is used on their Radio station at certain times in the day and for special occasions in their Parliament, i can't comment on everyday usage because i've honestly never met anyone from IOM!

but we get Manx Radio here in North West England

if you check out Manx Radios web feed, you can hear them ID on the hour in English & Manx.

Cumbrian seems extinct afaik

The Cornish language has developed underground long after it was officially extinct and will likely be kept alive by nationalists

cb88, not Liverpool but Manchester, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Derbyshire & Staffordshire :-)

The attractive Market town of Leek in Staffordshire has a Polish community ( i go there to buy my PL papers) and beautiful countryside that will take your breathe away, and the friendliest people i've ever met

when i bought Dziennik, the friendly English Shop assistant assumed i was Polish and greeted me in Polish.

i may as well cover all the Languages of these Islands.
Republicans/Nationalists in Northern Ireland use the Irish Language in the Northern Irish Parliment and then repeat the statement in English. the speaker of the house offered to use instant translation whereby the English speakers would receive an instant translation via headphones and the Republican speaker would use only Irish.

The Republicans rejected this because it would have made it obvious that many of their own members of parliment didn't understand what their leaders where saying in Irish!

the current system allows them to make their political point and then deliver their speech in the language their supporters really understand.

south of the border the Irish broadcaster RTE has recently begun to promote the learning of the Language and introduced Irish News broadcasts on RTE 1 & 2FM which are English for the rest of the day. a typical advert will go "have you got a spare 5 minutes?... why not practise your Irish!"

(I'd support a campaign like that to encourage the learning of Welsh in Wales & Western England)

the national 24 hour Irish Station is Radio Na Gael, during the day they broadcast traditional Irish folk mx and coverage of rural/Western Irish affairs but after 9pm they get freaky!

their late night programming is amazingly eclectic, i love to listen when we holiday in west wales

a few years ago the Radio 4 programme "The routes of Language" mentioned the fact that Indigenous Welsh Speaking Communities exist in Shropshire border towns like Oswestry, The local teacher was confused & amused by the Kids habit of scattering Welsh phrases into their English, like "oggies" for Hedges

when we drove through we did see some Welsh signs on the English side of the border, these communities can receive Welsh Broadcasting via "overspill" from Wales.

Welsh singers/songwriters & musicians have recently shot themselves in the foot, they have demanded an 10 x increase in the royalties they receive from BBC Radio Cymru, the end result? BBC Radio Cymru has reduced its broadcast day by 2 hours to cover the increased cost. So theres now less Welsh Language broadcasting at a time when the census shows that its needed more than ever! Dumb move or what?

i know less about the Scottish situation than Ireland as its further away, their Gaelic language station only broadcast a few hours a day and the station isn't as welcoming as R Cymru or R Na Gael. for some reason people all over the UK now see Gaelic language programmes on the BBC Parliament channel but not the more widely spoken Welsh.

as recently as the 70's it was possible to find Scots who knew only Gaelic, My Parents once took a boat ride with a ferryman who spoke no English