Poland's apartment prices continue to fall

That's it, no more Alpen for me!

I do have a weakness for Toblerone :)

Me too, or I did have, that and Lindt. Those nasty Swiss do have some mighty fine confectionery, darn them!

Ok, back on-topic. Sorry Milky. Milky can't you change your name, it's reminding me of Lindt chocolate? ;o)

As I was saying, Wroclaw property prices seem a bit flat at the moment, but I am not checking things thoroughly now so can't be sure. When I checked a few months ago, it did seem the prices were lower than when I had a good look previously. On the other hand, if we have speculators putting ads on blocks asking for flats to buy, it would suggest some parts of Wroc have a shortage of availability. (Or, Pan Speculator wants to pay under current 'market price' and is hoping to find a distressed seller, of course.)

hate to burst your chocolate bubble.....Toblerone is owned by Kraft. Not Swiss made anymore.

and the ................................ flow of cash from The UK and Ireland,, a billion Euros from Ireland alone each year since 2004...sort of important ,NO ??


never take out a mortgage based on two incomes,,look what happened in Ireland,,suicides etc etc


well!! you don't deny being a Thatcherite so ...
but the working-class don't buy houses??lol


are you saying that a worker(couple) in Tesco could not afford a 1 bedroom apartment. I know couples in Ireland who bought 5 bedroom houses and they work in Supermarkets. I know you know these things and you're just taking the p1ss but anyway

youtube.com/watch?v=BQFwxw57NBI&feature=player_embedded#

Not really. The thing that drove the housing boom in Poland was the unheard-of access to cheap credit.


Easy to say, but not so easy in reality for most Europeans.


I'm sure they did. Were these 5 bedroom houses in Ukraine?

Kraft also bought up the UK's beloved heritage choc firm, Cadbury. For some reason, although Cadbury have a factory here in Wroc, I don't know of anywhere that sells their products. I was on a flight with Cadbury execs, I should have asked. But they might have thought I was a Flake.

Just found this website which gives the cost of living in Wroclaw in US$ (or any currency probably) inc property.

You can also compare 2 cities. Even my home town in the UK is listed.

Rent Per Month [Edit] Avg.
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre 490.31 $ 424.81569.78
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre 359.77 $ 332.90398.85
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre 866.72 $ 756.59964.98
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre 675.55 $ 583.81804.15

Buy Apartment Price [Edit] Avg.
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre 2,557.49 $ 2,279.123,461.61
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment Outside of Centre 1,737.89 $

i'm sure a couple on minimum wage could afford this
daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=659304
or one person on minimum wage,this
daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=658030

I'm sure I could find affordable property in the arse end of Poland too. Wouldn't prove anything.

To be honest with you Delph, the banks do not do quality control. They have their security and the portion of any financial loan they give is on stage payments, ie, up to first floor level, up to roof, roof on and finishes. When you apply for a payment on any of these stages, they send someone around to check (take a photo) and then put the money into your account.

Quality control is down to the builder and the building inspector. I personally, always take 100's of pics throughout the project as a reference to what's been done and if it was done properly. There is also a building book which lists the materials used and where they were purchased including the names of the media installers and certificates and guarantees.

show me a 5 bedroom house in the arse of nowhere in Polans that a Pole could buy on minimum wage?? in fact show me a one bedroom apartment??

here's a house in one Ireland finest towns
a worker in a supermarket could afford it no prob
daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=658040

If it's built, why are they showing an artist's impression and not a picture of the real house? Is it a re-possession on a half finished estate?

artist impression
daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=659304
daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=65058
daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=651660

all could be bought on minimum wage,even one wage.
So the argument that only the middle class buy houses is bol.x


i'm waiting

Obviously you know nothing about the UK and the UK housing market. Thatcher created a housing market monster by selling off cheaply council housing stock which wasn't replaced. In London essential workers like nurses and teachers have no chance to get on the housing ladder do to this short-sighted, vote grabbing policy. In fact Thatchers buddies (especially shirley whateverhername was in wesminster) made a huge amount from ex-council stock. What Thatcher sould have done was to allow developers to develop brown field sites in the cities and to make these houses affordable to the lower end of the housing market.

I believe that everybody should have the right to get on the ladder and that the only way to get a housing market moving is for the government to develop housing and mortgages so that they are affordable to everybody (including supermarket workers) and Council houses should be just that...houses owned by the council in order to give low paid and out of work constituents a decent home to live in.

Housing unfortunately doesn't have a quick fix solution and in the UK successive governments for the last 50 years have made vote-winning mistakes that the country is paying for now. Poland made it's own mistake in 1989 when the government housing stock was handed over cheaply and it's creating problems now.


But to be honest the banks will only lend on property that they know is worth the mortgage. What do the banks do...lend on a crappy built house..the buyer then defaults on the mortgage and the banks are left with not only bad debt but a repossessed house that nobody will buy? So in fact... Banks do control quality...even more now then they did 5 years ago.

I don't understand why people here think that minimum wage workers should have the right to buy a house if they don't have the cash. This is not a Polish phenom --it is world wide.

Perhaps in Ireland it is possible because there are so many minimum wage workers and the banks cater to the population.

If you don't have the money and can't afford a mortgage payment then it is simple- you don't buy a house.

People that work in grocery stores or fast food places in any other part of the world --rent their housing. Why should Poland be any different?

You would have thought that people working in grocery stores or low income earners would buy their parents or grand parents government house/flat as they will avail of deep discounts depending on the number of years they have been living there.

Hi Pip

I'll explain it to you. A housing ladder with 5 properties...

1 bed apt for 150,000zl
2 bed apt for 225,000zl
2 bed house for 300,000zl
3 bed house for 600,000zl
5 bed house for 1million zl

in order for the person in the 2 bed house to move to a new and bigger house (because they have just had twins!) they need to sell their house. In order to sell their house they need a buyer... the couple in the 2 bed apt want a house with a garden and in order to move they need a buyer...the guy in the 1 bed apt who's girlfriend is now living with him and they need more space...

Little Kasia who works in Biedronki is looking for her first apartment...walks down the street and sees the 150,000zl 1 bed apt for sale.... she is working..loves her job..has no debt and has saved hard to get 15,000zl together.... but the banks wont give her a mortgage. Most people who buy a property in the real world take a mortgage as people dont have a couple of hundred thousand zloty's to hand.

So everybody in the chain must wait...or start dropping there prices so that the people below them can drop their and so on to get the chain moving....

This is why the bottom of the ladder is more important then the top of the ladder and why everybody should be able to buy.

Do you understand?


Problem solved? what if the parents are still living in the flats? My mothers 66 and her dad is still alive.

Who mentioned a house?, the topic was flats?

On all the projects I have done, both in the UK and Poland, the banks have never sent anyone around to check on quality, you have no idea what you are talking about.

no need to be condescending. The fact is that if she doesn't have the money than she can't buy an apartment. Just because she wants it doesn't make her entitled to it. If you can't afford a flat than you rent- it is quite simple. The banks don't give mortgages just because somebody wants a flat.

as a side note--about 12 years ago in Canada we tried to buy a house. A small, garden home- a starter home. Both of us worked and we got turned down. I was gutted, but Canada has quite strict regulations with mortgages- that is why we didn't get hit with the "financial crisis" the same as the Americans.

Anyway- we rented. For two years- then saved enough money for a larger downpayment and then reapplied for a mortgage. This time we got mortgaged.

Your theory looks good on paper but it is not realistic. Fact is that somebody that works in Biedronka is not highly educated. They have little chance for promotion. Perhaps minimal but a cashier is not going to become a manager without extra added training and education- years worth.

If somebody at Biedronka has twins but needs more space....do they make more money because they have twins? or do they make the same crap salary? Selling up is the answer but how is this possible when the state of entry level blocks are a disaster? Who wants to buy a 150,000 pln flat in a wielki plyta block?

I completely understand what you are saying but these rules don't apply to Poland.

In Northern England the working classes could afford to buy and did, long before right to buy. Different in the south, but that is why people live 'up North'.

As a anecdote, a friend is a just qualified Nurse and has a husband who is a window saleman/installer. they have just bough their first property for 250k (50m) in the outskirts of Krakow. Deposit (50K) came from money given at the wedding.

But as they say, "it's grim up north" ;)

The disparity between North and South is shocking, though.

No, they say southerners are stupid cunts who can **** off and live in their ****** little boxes that cost a fortune :)


Foreigners can buy apartments which distort the market.

But a two persons minimum wage is 36k per year. At 4x thats a 144k mortgage, at 5x its 180k.

There is property available for far less than that in the countryside. I told you my parents paid 70k for a house+ workshop with 1ha for 70k, I paid 175k for a farm, barn and 2.8 ha.

Minimum wage is rising to 6% next year to 38.4k. So buying on a minimum wage is conceivable, especially as parents/family are very likely to have money to lend for a deposit.

You will not get a house 200K that does not need insulation,new roof,, new windows. Please show me a link within 40 Km of a city.


lol says YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whats wrong with straw and a tin roof? not usual for Poland and dirt cheap. Six new windows - less than 10k. My house is 30km from Krakow, PiL's house less than that from several medium sized cities. My house/farm has new windows and roof.

I don't see what that has got to do with it though, you never mentioned anything about location, size or condition.


CHF44.2 billion = 154bilion PLN.

So Polands total outstanding mortgage debt (CHF and others) is about 310Billion PLN. About 7,7K per person and 30k pln debt per family on average.

I wasn't being condescending. The Banks are in the business of making money. If they see giving a mortgage as a sound financial investment then they will give it. A low paid worker with a small mortgage is a lower risk then somebody with a higher income who wants to buy a bigger apartment/house. The banks alos know that in order to get the ball rolling and stimulate the housing market then they have to loan at the lower end of the market. it's not a theory it's the way that the housing market works. If nobody buys your property you simply can't move on.

To say that they don't apply in Poland is absolute rubbish I bet plenty people on here can give examples of single low paid people buying apartment and also a stall in the housing chain caused by the above. Poland isn't unique..believe it or not. Property prices will get too expensive, there will be a burst of the property bubble. It happens everywhere.


Coming from the North I see no disparity in the housing stock in fact in the North your money goes further so people can afford to have larger/better houses and smaller mortgages. Wages however don't nearly reflect the difference in housing costs.

I lived in the suburbs of London for 6 years and I can tell you that the only shocking disparity was the amount of 'free cash' people in the North had to play with at the end of the month compared to the South . A couple of 'cockney' friends of mine moved north and would never go back.

it is grim... grimly fiendish!

It is not rubbish- it is the truth.

You are claiming prices will get too expensive? But they already were and now they are starting to decline. No bubble. It won't happen in Poland- just like the recession didn't happen here either.

Ohh please pip dont say things like that.

You shouldn't be so sure about your predictions.

Pip....something has to give.... house prices crash (like they are doing), wages rise (which the are and will soon cause uncontrolled inflation and job loses)... the recession will happen! Probably already is! Just look at the amount of money lenders opening in closed down shops!

I am comfortable with my position and just so we are clear....my opinion is that there will not be a bubble. There is a leveling off of the inflated existing prices of 2008. Buyers are in a good position because the market is saturated. People want to leave the crap blocks of the former communist era- nobody wants to move in to them--so buyers are still buying but they are more selective and are able to leave the old blocks for good.

Companies are still investing in Poland. This I know for fact because my husband deals with their office space. Probably 98% of his clients are foreign. When these companies set up here- they hire locally. And they pay well for Polish standards which in turn allows people to be able to make their first purchase on a home. White collar workers are buying now and they are getting mortgaged.

Developers are still building because people are still buying- makes sense, no?

There is still loads of construction in Gdynia, no?

I see it on the week ends when we go to the peninsula.

Yeah, yeah 33% decline in prices in one city and its nothing, just a normal adjustment.