Poland's apartment prices continue to fall

Hello everyone.

I am looking for a flat in Warsaw and I found very interesting information here. In general, what I've seen since I started to visit the sales offices is that prices are falling down and in my opinion, the fall will remain for quite a long time.

Apart from all magazine articles and different sources of information which were mentioned in this thread, It would be very useful if people could share their own experience.

For example,

Did any of you bought a flat from a developer, say 1 - 2 years ago, and now is seeing that the developer is selling the same flats cheaper?

How much in percentage were you able to negotiate from the starting price?

How much have you seen prices to fall during the time you've been looking for a flat?

In my own opinion, developers are still trying to sell as high as during the bubble. Right now they build less quality, they reduce the price per m2 but increase the price of parking places...

It was funny because in one developer they told me that now, because of the crisis and the lower prices, they build less quality than in their first buildings. Then I asked when were they built, and it was 2005. In that year they were selling around 30% cheaper than now!! Conclusion, they are selling **** and they are selling too expensive...

I'm glad that I found this forum :)

Greetings

1) There is no "bubble".
2) Either the price is going down or the developers are asking the same price.

Are you capable of writing without contradicting yourself?
Perhaps you should leave buying a property until you are more decisive.

1) Of course there was a bubble. My first time in Poland was in 2005, in Szczecin. I could have bought an small old flat for 80.000-100.000 zl. Now, the same apartment costs 250.000zl. It's pretty much of a bubble, right?

Two reasons:

- Polish people working abroad and earning good salaries (not anymore because there are not so many job opportunities in Europe as it used to be).

- Poland entering the EU. Foreigners buying flats just with an European passport (not anymore because people do not have so much cash as it used to be due to the crisis).

2) I think everyone can understand the sentences, but specially for Avalon please just add "almost" before "as high as". Then you should get it by yourself.

If you still don't get it, let me give you a numerical example,

Imagine that the price per m2 5 years ago for a penthouse in a certain part of the city was 7.500zl.

Imagine now that 2 years ago it went up to 12.000zl.

Finally imagine that the price right now is 11.000zl

Are prices going down? Yes
Are the still much higher than 2 years ago? Yes

You got it!!!

3)Perhaps I should leave buying a property until I am more decisive??

My idea when I decided to write here was to interchange some useful information which may help us to get a good deal, and not to waste my time answering nonsense comments.

Greetings

No. The price increases are also down to other reasons, such as salaries dramatically rising in some areas and the simple emergence of a middle class.


You've completely failed to take into account that the mortgage lending criteria were considerably toughened at the start of the year.

Boxercup - with these guys you first have to settle on a definition of a bubble.

Can you provide any factual examples of this?. I find it hard to believe that 2 years ago ( the peak being 2007), prices increased. If anything, there would have been a correction and prices would have dropped, especially if the properties were built in 2005 and are still unsold. If you knew anything about property in Poland, you would know that.

Ireland, Spain, UK, US, Dubai are experiencing property bubbles, France and the Netherlands are also, supposedly overheated. Can you show me one recent artical that confirms that this is happening in Poland?


The only comments you want are the ones that agree with you.

Strange conclusion, about a guy who only made two comments,

Not really Milky, he gives out of date facts and cannot answer the questions I put to him. Just like you.

Thank you Milky.

Anyway, it is just not worth to waste time answering to stupid things....:)

Greetings

Thats probably a sensible attitude to take. Ignore the bullshit.

My take on it is, prices are falling so you may as well wait until they stop falling before even considering buying.

I agree with peterweg. Wait another four years like Milky and carry on paying rent.

Is that sensible enough for you?

With my exp in Uk & USA the prices of t homes and condos react first..meaning they start falling or rising first thus predict prices for houses whereas in Poland the prices of houses fall and increase first (maybe cuz there are more flats then houses...im not sure just exp) so if the house prices start going its time to hit the spot!

???
very confusing statement.

House prices down 1% on average this May
-2 % in Gdansk

YES!

I wonder why you fail to mention that prices are unchanged in both Krakow and Warsaw. And you somehow overlook all the following too: Katowice is up by 0.9%, Kielce up by 0.4%, Opole up by 1.8%, Rzeszow up by 2.3%, Sopot up by 0.5% and Szczecin up by 0.4%. Or that you fail to give your source.

When I click your link I just see oferty.net. I can't see those statistics. Anyway, I don't know if they are based on final prices after negotiation or not. Many people here are talking about statistics and articles, etc. But you shouldn't trust articles and statistics that much. They are usually incorrect either on purpose or involuntarily.

The best way to check how real prices are is to go to an investment and see what's going on. From my own experience, before you ask, they will tell you that prices are negotiable or even very negotiable, and this is the kind of information I would like people to share here.

I was interested in two apartments and I can tell you that I got a 23% discount in one of them. Which is a lot. This discount wouldn't be possible a year ago and I guess in a few months it could be even higher (soon it can be mandatory to have 20% of the price in cash, if this happens it will stop the market even more).

There is also a very bad side effect coming from this. People who bought a flat in those buildings some time ago won't be able to sell their properties in years, as long as there will be new flats available and the developer will keep selling much cheaper that when they bought. This is really happening right now in some parts of Warsaw and I don't want it to happen to me.

I respect people who defend buying now (specially if they are in the sellers side :) but the goal in my life is to work to make myself richer everyday and not to make banks and developers richer. Don't worry about them, they have enough money already...

Krakow prices have fallen this year, its in one of the previous posts.

Click the button marked "Statystyki" (it's just below the second of the four pictures of properties).


Yes, but in the last month they haven't.

Is that on new build, which city if I may ask?

Thanks. Now I see. Anyway, this statistic is based on prices asked by people and real state agencies for second hand properties in internet. This is absolutely irrelevant. All those prices are negotiable and usually the more time the property is for sale, the more negotiable it is. Although the price in internet may remind constant.

Interesting data maybe but in my opinion irrelevant.

Don't know much about how Poles price property, do you.

New building in Warsaw. Actually they are selling flats from 4 very similar buildings. The oldest from 2008 (still 35% of flats available) and the newest from 2011 (75% available).

Are those figures for March? Seems like it. Are they asking prices or selling prices? Do they take into account economic developments since, rule changes, credit crunch issues, etc?

Developer's agent I spoke to was talking of about 5 or 10% off, from that I would infer he meant 15%.

I know nothing at all man, I just know what they answer when you call asking about the property. Yes, all prices are negotiable.

Are you telling me that the price in internet is the final one? Or that the time it takes to sell a property does not affect in the final price? Both statements are a bit ridiculous.

No they are not.


I'm telling you that Poles have a habit of not dropping down when it comes to property, whether we are talking price or rent, even when it means that they will lose money. For example, a lot of them will leave a property they want to rent out empty for several months rather than drop the rent by 10% and sign a one-year agreement. Yes that is ridiculous but it is also very common.

In some case it might be true but it is absolutely not the general rule. I got a 12% discount in the flat I'm renting right now from the internet price and every single flat I was interested in buying was negotiable. Even before I asked, the owner told me.

I'm not talking about my thoughts or about articles I read. This is how it works and to verify this you just need to start calling people.

By the way, in many internet ads it is already written "cena do negocjacji". Another reason why internet prices are not relevant and which shows that Poles negotiate.

There was a stagnant period when the bubbled peaked in 07-08, people were holding back,which would be expected; and hardly a Polish trait.
On average prices went down 1 % in May. So that's 1% a month since the beginning of 2012.

How surprising that you don't bother to give a source for that claim.

I agree and my sources are the sales offices. I started to look for a flat on December 2011 and the starting price before negotiation has dropped at least by 5.5%.

In other investments where their initial price was extremely high, prices were reduced even by 30% from December (of course with the previous prices they didn't sell a flat in a year).

You may think that I'm crazy but once more, you can check it by yourself just by visiting the investments.

Thats evidently bullocks, as if it wasn't prices would never gone down.