Shame that a total of 20+% have voted for populism. What is the singer's program? Absolutely nothing! A mere singer with no experience whatsoever makes 20% is really terrifying and I am shocked. PIS are full of extremists but better PIS than cheap populism.
@Polsyr: Thanks! :). this morning (in Warsaw) some (successful highly educated Polish) clients discussed Sunday's results and they are shocked. Close to 21% voting for a ... singer with no program!!! Scarry! I read 2 or 3 days ago that Kukiz was slowing his campaign because his father's health was very bad and the following day he announced a concert for 2 days later.... In other countries it is not any better but since we talk about Poland. People are unemployed and desperate so they vote for any idiot telling them he is against the system (but of course he benefits from said system). My clients this morning told me that they believe the singer won't last long... Hard for me to say, but better to have PIS with their extremists + Smolensk paranoia. How can almost 21% of Poles vote for someone with no experience, no program? It beats me....
"Has to be stressed that 51% of Poles did not bother to vote and this shows that the majority of people don't care and don't believe in politicians. "
Extremely false argument. People dont vote for a lot of reasons, not because they dont care about politics.
My girlfriend lives in Warsaw and she votes in Lodz. She could not vote because she couldn't leave Warsaw. I also never vote on my elections because i am 6THOUSAND kilometers far away. The same for all the Poles that work here at the same company (probably the biggest amount of Europeans here are poles).
ANd there the list goes.... so dont invent stuff just to justify your opinion.
@Levi: stop your bs! You don't live in Poland! Your girlfriend is ONE among close to 39 millions people and among millions of voters. Trust me, most Poles are fed up with politicians and that's the reason why they don't vote. Live in Poland so you'll know. The reason why some 20% more have voted for a singer with no program, no experience prove that people don't give a sh... and are very immature. It is very sad that after 25 years of so called democracy (I personally don't believe there is such a thing as "democracy") more than 50% of Poles don't even want to vote... It is like that at all elections. The socalled "democracy" has failed since people don't care or vote for any idiot claiming to be antisystem (but making his money out of the system ;))
PS: Of course I cannot (and don't want to) mention names for obvious reasons but I personally know several high level politicians (whose names are often mentioned in PF).
Others are saying: Jeśli Platformersi i ich kolesie zostaną, ja wyjeżdżam do Białorusi! (If the Platformers and their cronies stay, I'm moving to Belarus!)
Bronek sees the light! Millions of signatures have been collected for the singlel-mandate thing and othger issues, but the Platformers and Bronek never saw fit to act on them. Suddenly, a miracle occurred. The day after election day, he starts signing things into law, pledges to have the Senate do their thing, etc. Did he have a vision of Archangel Gabriel? Maybe it was pure coincidnece? No, he saw how his rivals fared in the first round and realised that imitation was his only chnace to stay at the feeding trough for another 5 years. Tak trzymać, Bronku!
especially the huge ZUS every month, regardless of profit
Don't pay it Wroc. I don't :)
Komorowski IN.
I grew up in an English midlands town surrounded by Poles, and with a Polish "uncle" close friend of the family. Not one of them gave a stuff for Poland, and would steer the conversation away from the "homeland" asap. Some of them were extremely relunctant to take the 24 hour bus back to visit for funerals and the like. Polonia was largely a fiction in my neck of the woods.
None of them should have the vote as they don't appreciate the low wage economy and the struggles we have here - that PIS would love to exacerbate with their endless gerrymandering, xenophobia, court cases, backhanders, nepotism, and total lack of economic management.
And why are PIS always referred to as conservative? They are socialists with a nasty S, handing out freebies to their cronies and endeavouring to steal from those of us who aren't afraid to get up in the morning and graft.
A female prompter stays within earshot of Komorowski so he'll know what to say. After all, he can't very well bring his teleprompter contraption along when he mingles with crowds.
Polish émigrés not only tided Poles over the commie era by generously supporitng anti-communist freedom causes such as Skarb Narodowy, the truth about Katyń, uncensored news stations and balloons containing Free World information leaflets dropped on Polish territory. Polonans also provided massive financial aid. My grandparents sent a team of draught horses to relatives in Bydgoszcz after the war. Naturally they came from a stable in Benelux but they were paid for in the States. And Pekao and later Pewex were set up mainly to enrich the regime's coffers with émigré dollars and and pounds but that channel did provide loved ones in Soviet-ruled Poland with many necessities not available there. To this day cash continues to flow from the US, Canada, the British Isles and wherever else Poles live and work. If they have not renounced their Polish citizenship, émigrés have every right to vote in Polish elections. Amen!
Would you agree that a person should be able to claim US citizenship because of their ancestry, despite never having lived there, and should be entitled to vote in US elections?
There's no such thing as "US ancestry". Unless you mean the Amerindians and even they emigrated from Mongolia. Voting is always extra hassle. Polonians interested only in material aggrandisement wouldn't go to all the effort. Those that do are truly committed Polish patriots keenly concerned about the welfare of their ancestral homeland and their loved ones living there. Should such sterling patriots be disenfrnachised just because some Tom, Dick or Harry thinks so?
There's no such thing as "US ancestry". Unless you mean the Amerindians and even they emigrated from Mongolia.
If that were to be true, there would be no such thing as 'Polish ancestry': the people living in what became Poland had moved there from elsewhere.
Those that do are truly committed Polish patriots keenly concerned about the welfare of their ancestral homeland and their loved ones living there.
Just not concerned enough to move here to do something to help Poland and to pay taxes here.
Should such sterling patriots be disenfrnachised just because some Tom, Dick or Harry thinks so?
They should be told that they can either be Polish or they can be American, and thus they can either vote in Polish elections or in American elections. Of course, we all know which they would choose.
It's a good thing Poland doesn't let expats make the rules. It's surpising that Poland even tolerates know-all expats whose main hobby is defining what Polishness is all about, telling Poles what they should do and, even more so -- Pole-bashing in every size, shape and form.
know-all expats whose main hobby is defining what Polishness is all about, telling Poels what they should do
Staring in the mirror too long is never good. Where did you say you were from?
The issue of people in other countries with little connection to Poland, without the language or any direct experience is a problem. The other European country affected is Italy. Fortunately the EU are addressing this to make a common Europe-wide policy about who can vote.
Very fortunately, the overseas vote has little effect, being counted only in the Warsaw electoral district, which is hardly the most typical in Poland.
The issue of people in other countries with little connection to Poland, without the language or any direct experience is a problem.
Precisely. And the exact reason I'd never dream of voting in any Australian election, despite having the right to do so.
Very fortunately, the overseas vote has little effect, being counted only in the Warsaw electoral district, which is hardly the most typical in Poland.
And the overseas vote could easily be negated by simply making it easier for people who do live in Warsaw to vote here.
Voting is always extra hassle. Polonians interested only in material aggrandisement wouldn't go to all the effort. Those that do are truly committed Polish patriots keenly concerned about the welfare of their ancestral homeland and their loved ones living there.
I seem to have touched a nerve, Polonius. Otherwise you might have answered my specific question. Those of us who live here in Poland, and love the country, warts and all, feel, well, some us, that romantic Americans with Polish roots should either come and live here, and contribute, or stfu.
But they do contribute. They send $$$$, they invite Polish relatives to the USA for visits, cultural immersion, travel, studies, etc. Life is not always as simple as you'd like to make out. The post-war political émigrés could not return to a Soviet-ruled Poland. The fact that not only they but many of their kids, although born in the US, still identify with their Polish roots, is a feather in Poland's cap. Every diaspora is an asset, not a liability. Those who feel strongly enough about it and want to vote, should be able to. The post-Solidarity emigration also votes in Polish elections. Since they left for America, many put down roots there, married, set up families. It's not always easy to pull up everything and return permanently. But they usually visit Poland often, send their kids for summer holidays with relatives to keep up the language and are active in PolAM organisations. Should such people be disenfranchised as some frustrated expats would like? Hell, the EU allows foreigners from EU countries (many of them birds of passage) to vote in local-council elections. Maybe that privilege should also be rescinded.
Should such people be disenfranchised as some frustrated expats would like?
Of course they shouldn't be disenfranchised, they should pick the country they wish to vote in and vote there. If they want to vote in the US presidential elections, they shouldn't be allowed to vote here. People should pick which nation, if any, they want to be a member of, I certainly have, so have other posters here, haven't they.
Hell, the EU allows foreigners from EU countries (many of them birds of passage) to vote in local-council elections. Maybe that privilege should also be rescinded.
We Europeans will decide what happens in our union. Guests can like it or leave, or complain and be ignored.
Why would somebody need the franchise in a country they've never lived in and in which they may not even be able to speak the language well in any case?
Or for that matter why would anyone need to vote in more than one place?
To disenfranchise means to deprive of the right to vote. Your Oxford or Webster will clue you in. It's not like a KFC or Burger King franchise in case you didn't know.
You could count on the fingers of thsoe hand Ameircans visiutng in Polish elections with no knowledge of Polish. Despite living in Poland sicne the war their Polish is better than that of most PF expats. It is the Polish émigré and at times his Polish-speaking offspring that feel committed enough to the Polish cause to vote. Unless one lives near the NY, Chcago or LA Polish consulate, voting is not that easy and requries added effort. Those Poles who bother to vote despite the hassle should be commended and admired, not badmouthed. Unforutnely, the latter seems to be an expat speciality.
Because Polish law extends them that right. When your Bejgowski-turned-Grodzkas, Senyszyns, Palikots, Biedrońs and a few other "progressives" get into power, they can try to change it. That, of course, will never happen. Bogu niech będą dzięki!
It is the Polish émigré and at times his Polish-speaking offspring that feel committed enough to the Polish cause to vote.
So do they then decline to vote in the US presidential election? I would have thought that the people who vote in Polish presidential elections would need to be voting for their president and that they would be loyal to that president, because they are committed to Poland. In much the same way people who vote in US elections need to be voting for their president and would need be loyal to that president. People can't be loyal to two heads of state at the same time.
Bogu niech będą dzięki!
Can a moderator please advise as to whether rule No. 1 of the PF rules is still in force.
