People who think Kukiz voters will vote for Komorowski are insane. You obviously don't listen to what Kukiz is saying. They are wholeheartedly against the current leadership. I think most of the Kukiz supporters simply won't vote, and some of them will vote Duda to get rid of Komorowski. Kukiz said he is not going to support either man but he is clearly more against Komorowski than Duda. I think Duda has a real opportunity here. Once again Komorowski and POs only arguments before the elections were that Duda is Kaczynski is disguise, and thankfully it looks like people have finally found that tiresome and not fallen for it.
Exactly! In second round I'm not going to vote for Duda, I'm going to vote AGAINST Komorowski which narrows it down I'm going to vote for Duda, me and my whole family.
DOES ANY OF THESE CANDIDATES HAVE PLANS FOR RAISING THOSE 5-6PLN WAGES, ESTABLISH SOCIAL BENEFITS, AND INCREASE COMMON POLISH PEOPLE'S LIFE STANDARD AND STOP MANY YOUNG POLES FROM LEAVING THEIR HOMELAND? CLEARLY NO!!!
When i came to Poland i haD dozens of Polish friends but none of them live in Poland anymore. last of them left to work in Africa!!!
DOES ANY OF THESE CANDIDATES HAVE PLANS FOR RAISING THOSE 5-6PLN WAGES, ESTABLISH SOCIAL BENEFITS, AND INCREASE COMMON POLISH PEOPLE'S LIFE STANDARD AND STOP MANY YOUNG POLES FROM LEAVING THEIR HOMELAND? CLEARLY NO!!!
What is the point commenting on the subject while having no slightest clue about it?
Yep. I can think of the few people the same. One guy I know (very political and nearly a libertarian candidate himself) campaigned for Kukiz but would rather pull his own teeth out than vote for Duda.
This has been the rough breakdown in recent elections. The only interesting thing about it is that Mazowsze, including Warsaw, the bastion of arrogant look-down-on-everybody-else snobs, "red" £ódź and Śląsk -- which had been PO country, have joined the PiS bandwagon. The 4th RP looms. Lefty expats, pack your bags?
UPDATE: According to late exit polls Komorowski did win in Upper Silesia after all. Szkoda!
I didn't vote this time since for few months now I live abroad and always thought it wasn't right since I won't feel the impact of the decision as Poles living in Poland will but if PiS is about to come back I'm changing my mind. I wouldn't forgive myself if Duda became president and I didn't vote.
After that I will switch to being silent citizen again since I think it's wrong that ppl who started new life elsewhere mess with the politics that won't affect them but others. Great example of that is the clear difference between Poles votes and American Polonia votes (Duda 80%). So it might be that there will be more ppl like me who'll do almost anything to keep PiS away...(brrrrrrrrrrr, even the memory brought back by IV RP slogan is too awful)
Sorry: American Polonia around 66% American Polonia in Chicago around 80%
Not that interesting. Much of Mazowsze is one-horse towns plus farming villages. That and many Warsaw residents being registered to vote elsewhere and a lot of OAPs voting in town.
The Kukiz thing is significant too - many first or second time voters choosing the rock musician for the first round but almost certainly not choosing the stodgy Duda for the second.
Great example of that is the clear difference between Poles votes and American Polonia votes (Duda 80%). So it might be that there will be more ppl like me who'll do almost anything to keep PiS away...(brrrrrrrrrrr, even the memory brought back by IV RP slogan is too awful.
If they're actually Poles, perhaps with an old age pension due from Poland that's dependent on government policy, if they're paying tax there and/or have a home, or if they don't have a vote where they live, it's no problem voting. If they're actually Americans who have roots in PL but no fiscal link then that's a bit different - people oughtn't to vote in that situation. I still vote in the UK but my pension is there and some real estate plus I'm there several times a year so it's excusable. Some WASP in Boston, Buenos Aires or Melbourne voting there just because their grandpa and grandma were Brits would be plain wrong. Interestingly, in Europe it only seems to be Poland and Italy who do this. In most other countries you lose the vote after a certain number of years.
I suspect the U.S. votes have a small impact on the Mazowsze result. I do know that there has been an unprecedented turnout among Poles (especially younger ones) who've moved to the UK - most come from small towns and villages with high unemployment and interesting to know who they voted for and why so many turned out.
The only ones who fear IV RP are those with things on their conscience -- concealed commie-era misdeeds or more recent corruption. The PO has become a safe haven for ex-commies with blood on their hands, participants in the Katyń conspiracy of silence, foreign non-trax-paying banks and enterprises and various corporate and non-corporate scam artists. The sooner they go, the better.
I think it's wrong that ppl who started new life elsewhere mess with the politics that won't affect them but others.
Good for you. I've lost my right to vote in UK elections, but never did even when I had it and lived abroad. I voted for the incumbent as I still shudder when I think of the last PiS presidency.
Sorry to disappoint you but I'm too young to have anything to do with PZPR, I wasn't in a position to corrupt or to be corrupted and yet I fear even a thought of them coming back. My only family member that voted PiS once in the past,now, after seeing what they did while in power never speaks of them without a slur.
So as you see Polonius ppl without any agenda fear PiS as well.
The support for Duda amongst émigré Poles should surprise no-one. It was Polonia that upheld the continuity of legitimate Polish rule over years of Nazi nad Soviet enslavement, kept up traditions the commies tried to destroy and was ultimately instrumental in Poland's re-emergence as an independent state in 1989. Blackmailed into at least feigning support for PRL, people in Poland had to survive, put food on the table and send their kids to school . Polonia was their only free voice. Émigré media told the world about Katyń and other communist atrocities as well as day-to-day PRL misrule, when people in Poland were muzzled. They provided massive aid to their compatriots in the Soviet satellite and strongly supprotred VOA, RFE and other stations beaming uncensored news to Poland. Maybe also at present Polonia is unfettered by the strictures of de rigueur docility towards the ruling PO establishment and is showing to way to true Polish sovereignty and freedom. Not only totalitarian regimes but also foreign banks and corporations as well as unbridled acceptance of EU intrusion can also restrict a naiton's sovereignty.
Some Kukiz voters will not bother to vote at all. Those who do are more likely ot vote for Duda. Kukiz has clearly indicated his rejection of all Komorowksis stands for. And Duda supports the one-made constituencies and civic referendum ideas of Kukiz. One need not agree on everything to form a strategic alliance. Who knows, maybe it'll be called the V RP.
I still shudder when I think of the last PiS presidency.
Most people do. I've never seen such ridicule or such a rush to get his brother out.
PRL misrule, when people in Poland were muzzled. They provided massive aid to their compatriots in the Soviet satellite and strongly supprotred VOA, RFE and other stations beaming uncensored news to Poland. Maybe also at present Polonia is unfettered by the strictures of de rigueur docility towards the ruling PO establishment and is showing to way to true Polish sovereignty and freedom. Not only totalitarian regimes but also foreign banks and corporations as well as unbridled acceptance of EU intrusion can also restrict a naiton's sovereignty.
Only the late middle aged were voting adults in those days, the overseas embassy vote has little or no effect on overall results (and in 20 years I've never heard even one Pole say that they feel what 'Polonia' thinks is important or even relevant), and of the various European countries, polls show that Poland is one of those with the strongest support for the EU.
Interesting how the second round will be. People do remember how disastrous the last PiSuar president was and I suspect there will be tactical voting for President Komorowski.
The most curious outcome of the recent election is Kukiz. To everyones supprise, including to himself, he managed to commandeer quite large a percentage of the votes. Personally I cannot imagine Kukiz to create the actual political party, to became a statesman, but leting such a potential to go to waste would be plainly stupid. What now? I have no idea... Latter this year, the most important elections. I expect scores of old time buddies of Kukiz to crawl out of the woodwork. Interesting times.
It was Polonia that upheld the continuity of legitimate Polish rule over years of Nazi nad Soviet enslavement
Not to disagree with the quoted statement (I stand neutral on that), and I sincerely mean no offense, but what century are you living in? I am legally old enough to be a grandfather, and my father who is more than double my age and has seen WW2 does not talk like that. Even my grandfather - who was captured by the Nazis and survived to tell his tale - never talked like that, and he passed away in the 1990s due to natural causes! ie. he was very old!!!
Unless you are older than 85-90 then you are mentally stuck in some history book. And while it is good and admirable to know history, it is not good to get stuck living in it. I know that change is hard to accept for some or most people, but if you fail to keep up with times then times will simply pass you by and leave you stumbling in their wake to say the least...
I live in Poland and I struggle with corruption that you mentioned somewhere on daily basis. Yet I fail to understand how can you possibly blame problems that occurred in every communist or ex-communist country on Komorowski or his party. If anything I am witnessing slow but constant improvement on this and basically every other aspect of life in Poland. If you expect any country to rise up and recover from several decades of communism overnight then you are delirious (for lack of a better word), especially when the benchmark being used is Western Europe, which is THE wealthiest and most socially and economically developed group of countries! This recovery needs decades, not years.
Polsyr - you misread my statement. Komorowski was an anti-communist and nationalist Catholic originally who did time for his beliefs in a commie lock-up. But he changed his tune as an opportunist and now backs a party (PO) that has become a przechowalnia (retaining tank) for those ex-commies who slipped through the cracks of a very half-hearted lustracja. All the ones with things on their conscience said "nie grzebać w życiorysach" (don't dredge up the past) and went on to worm their way into positions of power in government and the business sector. But PO is a catch-all for opportunists of every ilk, careerists, scam artists, corporate thieves, the banking lobby and others eager to channel their profits to their home offices abroad.
But PO is a catch-all for opportunists of every ilk,
Again, I will stand neutral on this simply because I don't know enough about the personal history of everyone in every political party to even comment.
There is a good saying that about this subject. When you dig you get dirt. This holds true for everyone and politicians (of every ilk) are no exception. If someone with enough determination and enough resources wants to dig dirt on anyone then they will find dirt. It is as simple as that.
Having said that, I believe that justice should be served including for crimes committed during communism. If you know someone that committed crimes during communism and got away with it, then you should present your evidence to the concerned prosecutor, preferably instead of casting a wide net of accusations in the face of several million people democratically represented by this or that party.
Assume that I am an average Joe with no detailed knowledge concerning the background of each candidate - which is a very common type of average Joe here in Poland and worldwide for that matter. All I know is that there are elections and that candidates have presented agendas/pledges of some sort for the public to evaluate and cast their votes accordingly (in the simplest possible terms). From my perspective today, the only agenda I saw from Duda is to discredit Komorowski and trash everything achieved by his party. I can't see how Poland will move forward when the people in charge have such an agenda - or in fact no real agenda.
Komorowski is paying for his arrogance. There were milons of signatures of people demanding the referendum about increasing the age of retirement or about sending 6 y.o. children to school. Komorowski just thrown all these signatures to the trashcan. He arrogantly ignored the will of the voters, so now the voters are throwing him into the trashcan. The trashcan of history.
AFAIK from chatter around the city, Komi won in Wrocław by a large margin, with Dud in third place and the rock star in second.
Wrocław seems awash with rich locals, never seen so many new and expensive cars in my life on packed roads. A lot of people here are doing very well and buses 'n' trams are more and more jammed full of people going to the malls and I assume to their jobs, businesses and universities. I think the population here has increased quite a bit in the past 12-18 months or so.
Those not doing so well are bound to vote for change, but seems the haves outnumber the have nots here or they bothered to vote in greater numbers.
If I had a vote here (I don't) I'd have voted for Dud and hope he won't turn out to be one. Komi has had a go and probably it's now time for a new approach. Lots left to do including less red tape for small businesses - that should have been sorted (especially the huge ZUS every month, regardless of profit) ages ago.
Final 1st round results show that Poles have largely rejected leftists and extremists of every ilk, whackos like Palikot and Korwin, ultra-mega-Catholics like Braun, pretty PhDs like Miss Cucumber and ultra-nationalists like Kowalski. Also unknowns like Tanajno and Wilk. However the presidential election turns out, the good news is that leftists -- ex-communist, post-communist, Palikotist, greenist-extremist, libertinist, anarchist, whatever will most likely not make it into the Sejm for the first time since Poland dumped communism. I read somwhere that this is the left's poorest showing since (believe it or not?!) 1935. Bogu niech będą dzięki!
Grzegorz Michał BRAUN - 124132 - 0.83 percent *Andrzej Sebastian DUDA - 5179092 - 34.76 percent Adam Sebastian JARUBAS - 238761 - 1.60 percent *Bronisław Maria KOMOROWSKI - 5031060 - 33.77 percent Janusz Ryszard KORWIN-MIKKE - 486084 - 3.26 percent Marian Janusz KOWALSKI - 77630 - 0.52 perent Paweł Piotr KUKIZ - 3099079 - 20.80 percent Magdalena Agnieszka OGÓREK - 353883 - 2.38 percent Janusz Marian PALIKOT - 211242 - 1.42 percent Paweł Jan TANAJNO - 29785 - 0.20 percent Jacek WILK - 68186 - 0.46 percent
Polonius, you made a good summary of the results. In fact, when i saw that the Poles rejected all the left-wing idiots that destroyed France and turned it into the European Baghdad, a tear of joy almost dropped from my eyes.
I just disagree that Braun is a bad candidate. He appeared extremely wise and i think that he would be a great leader...
If in my country we had at least one politician as good as him, we would be the global power that we were supposed to be.
Although Poland is largely a Catholic country, it does not like extremism. Braun may be wise and well-meaning but he simply came on too strong and overdid it. If a prickly, abrasive and radical candidate such as Kaczyński had run against Komorowski, he probably would have got no more than 25% of the vote and only from the most dyed-in-the-wool PiS hardliners. Duda came across as more moderate, conciliatory and open to dialogue -- a champion of "the little guy" rather than a defender of the PO oldboy elite.
@Levi: what is this French bashing??? You have never been there and I suppose don't speak the language.
As to extremists, sorry but Kukiz is a younger Korwin-Mikke. Also in PIS (I'm not sure about Duda) there are a lot of extremists
It has to be stressed that 51% of Poles did not bother to vote and this shows that the majority of people don't care and don't believe in politicians. Shame that a total of 20+% have voted for populism. What is the singer's program? Absolutely nothing! A mere singer with no experience whatsoever makes 20% is really terrifying and I am shocked. PIS are full of extremists but better PIS than cheap populism.
