AFP More: AFP Conservative newcomer Duda wins Polish presidential cliffhanger Warsaw (AFP) - Conservative opposition challenger Andrzej Duda on Sunday won Poland's presidential run-off, exit polls showed, trumping incumbent centrist Bronisław Komorowski on promises of generous social spending.
An MEP and lawyer with a populist streak, Duda scored 53 percent support ahead of Komorowski, who mustered 47 percent, exit polls showed, giving a key indicator of the national mood ahead of an autumn parliamentary election.
Analysts said voters hungry for change in the EU and NATO member state could oust the governing centrist Civic Platform (PO) in this year's parliamentary polls and return Jaroslaw Kaczynski and his conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party to power after eight years.
Its no use arguing whether the party is left or right wing.
It depends on how you define the left-right politics There is some difference between Western European and American ways. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics
But I do agree with this: "Some political scientists have suggested that the classifications of "left" and "right" are no longer meaningful in the modern complex world. Although these terms continue to be used, they advocate a more complex spectrum that attempts to combine political, economic and social dimensions.[41]"
"What are you talking about? The left wing party won. The party that is interventionist in the economy. But i guess you are too young to understand that."
Interventionism?
Wanna say interventionism bigger than UE obligating Poland to accept immigrants from Somalia?
Lowering the retirement age, increase spending for welfare programs, EU-scepticism, increasing taxes for foreign banks and supermarket networks, distancing Poland from its strongest ally within the EU (Germany), pushing for a permanent US military presence in Poland ... exactly what the country needs to secure a golden future. Wonder who's going to pay for all that. Oh right, the EU and foreign investors. Good luck with that, PiS.
Let's not forget that only a couple of decades ago Poland suffered terribly under the heavy and brutal yoke of communism where all real decisions regarding the economy and even movement and treatment of her people were ultimately decided far away by unelected party bureaucrats in Moscow.
Fastforward to today and there are people actually arguing that Polish politicians not playing along to hand Poland's sovereignty over to unelected Eurocrats far away in Brussels is now regarded as "left wing" and even "interventionist."
The propaganda won't work this time and that is why Duda won.
There is nothing wrong with Polish politicians putting Poles and Polish interests first.
As the saying goes, all politics is local.
Therefore, there is no reason for Poland to bind itself closer to Brussels just for the sake of fulfilling nightmare internationalist socialist objectives being hidden behind the false banner of pro-market federalism.
Indeed, Poles went through a very tough period of "shock therapy" in the early 1990s in order to transform and grow Poland's economy and keep itself fiscally sound. And Poland made even further structural changes in order to satisfy the requirements of EU membership so as not to be a burden on existing member states.
It is simply bizarre that anyone would even think that it is "conservative" for Poland to relinquishing control of its political and economic sovereignty over to Brussels.
What's in it for Poles?
Yet another massive bill to help bail out Greece's leftist profligacy?
How about being granted permission from Brussels for increased social spending in Poland but only if it used towards feeding and housing Juncker's quota of tens of thousands of third world economic migrants crossing illegally into the EU every year?
These are not agenda items which Poles made such great sacrifices for in the past with both their wallets and literally their lives.
But still seems odd that a private survey company poll is enough to trigger victory speeches on. The actual real results have to be counted (takes all night) back in the UK before anybody makes victory speeches because in the UK surveys n polls have fairly often been wildly wrong.
From what they have said on Polish TV in the elections programme, the error of the survey result is 2 p.p. The result is (53 ± 2)% for Duda. The exit polls must have been made at so many voting points that it is true.
In the recent local elections, a few months ago, the vote counting took much more than one night - because they were trying to do it using a computer system which was full of bugs and errors. At the end they did it manually, but it took definitely a few days.
Witam! I am really surprised since I am surrounded by so many wealthy PO voters but after all PIS corresponds more to the overall Polish population - the huge majority of Poles are not 5 digit salary earners, travelling around the world for vacation several times a year ;) ). Most Poles are poor and thus a PIS program ought to be better for them, only the very rich benefit from economic liberalism. I do not know whether we can call the PIS program "left wing" since nowadays "left and "right" do not mean anything and also vary from one country to another (socalled "socialist" parties in Western Europe are usually right wing in terms of economics, like in UK, France, Germany....). So I don't know whether PIS is right or left wing but who cares about the way one calls things, what is important is that people are satisfied with their lot and that Poles live better.... I am also really amazed by the growing number of people (especially men) over 50 on the break of being "kloszard" as they cannot find work since too old but nevertheless PO put the retirement age at .. 67..... Does it make sense when people past their 40s are considered too old by employers? I think this issue was very important in the 2015 election and now I expect PIS to win the parlementary election.
It makes no difference to me whether it is Komorowski or Duda but I wish the new president all the best!
However, as to EU is concerned, considering its financial dependence (hundreds of billions of euros given to Poland (no.1 recipient although paying peanuts to the EU budget), Poland shall continue to bend its back to Brussels - Poland has not the means to be arrogant. As they say in America "beggars are no choosers" and as they say in France "the soup tastes too good"....
I simply just hope that Poland shall not be ruled by the Vatican...
"Poland shall continue to bend its back to Brussels - Poland has not the means to be arrogant. As they say in America "beggars are no choosers" and as they say in France "the soup tastes too good"...."
So you think that Poland should receive all the immigrants from North Africa as suggested by the Italian European MP?
However, as to EU is concerned, considering its financial dependence (hundreds of billions of euros given to Poland (no.1 recipient although paying peanuts to the EU budget), Poland shall continue to bend its back to Brussels - Poland has not the means to be arrogant. As they say in America "beggars are no choosers" and as they say in France "the soup tastes too good"....
Poland can`t be that dependent?
Bravo and good luck, Mr. Duda !
alright. i would also say- Bravo!
I simply just hope that Poland shall not be ruled by the Vatican...
why would Vatican rule Poland? Vatican doing more for USA, Germany, France, Britain and still don`t rule them
as for Serbia?i dunno what he can do,tho Duda is from PIS ,THEY were allied with Orban in EU parliament,and had very good relations with Orban. until recently PIS got angry at Hungary for Hungarys "pro russian" stance
Good, good. So, Duda can seduce Obama that USA stop molesting Hungary. Serbia? when i think, forget it. For sure Duda isn`t crazy to interrupt major USA and western European plans for the region. Duda should refrain himself from adventures
As for pro-Russian stance. Why `pro-Russian stance`? Russians are geographically close to Hungary and Serbia. Even if we disregard any other reasons, let us take in consideration that Russians themselves wants to live and prosper. So they offering business. Now, if we ignore their intention to do business, we actually endangering their existence. That we don`t wish and so, Hungary and Serbia doing business with Russians. At the same time we call other players to do business, too. But, those other players, such as USA, don`t wish to do business if we don`t accept to isolate Russians. All that in situation when major world`s money flow shifted Eastern and when China coming with her own business and interests. For sure, Hungary and Serbia have to be reasonable.
Duda should beware of USA path. Its path of desperate one who sense that losing control over the world. Why would Poland accept to serve as battering ram? USA path is altogether with path of western Europe, path of direct collision with China and Russia. Path by their own choice
Business as usual today, and I'm in a PO city. Same number of enquiries from customers for a Monday morning.
What I do notice is an increasing number of day time and night time louts, drunks and perhaps homeless people around than a few years back. What's going on with that? No matter which colour is in power something needs to be done so that a person can walk down the road without being hassled by people for cigarettes or money for booze. This in a green residential area not some inner city!
@Levi: since Poland is by far the no. 1 EU funds' recipient and pays peanuts to the EU budget, Poland shall do as what Brussels says. When one depends upon other people's money, one has very limited freedom.
In Poland, everything is paid by the EU (= taxpayers from German, France, UK (as per %),, then the Netherlands, Italy...) and should the Polish government say something against the EU, funds shall be cut...
Poland is too weak to rule the place...
@eh? : same for me, I'm in PO city and nothing has changed, I've seen some of my clients early this am and nothing unusual...
44% Polish voters did not vote so it shows that election very little impact...
Well - I've been to 4 offices of private businesses here in Tri-City this morning and people are depressed and in shock.
We can but hope that the parliament doesn't swing the same way to the left. It's ridiculous that the east of Poland should dictate anti-federalist policies and ultra-conservative catholic "values" to the rest of us. I very much fear that Duda will beam and pontificate, and make ridiculous promises, at the expense of the rest of us, targeted at the young - who have no concept of the pigs ear that the Kaczynskis made of the job last time they were allowed to run riot with their puerile witch-hunts.
Everybody is seen as potentially corrupt when PIS are in power and it's one long list of investigations and petty bureaucracy.
FFS don't let them back in, or the business community, that can do so, will flee.
Its no use arguing whether the party is left or right wing.
It depends on how you define the left-right politics There is some difference between Western European and American ways. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics
PiS are well to the left of PO in terms of social welfare and re-distributing wealth. They exist to tax business. So if that is not left wing, I am at a loss to understand what is. And everything else follows from the state of the economy.
If they have to play their tax games, they could start by taxing the coal industry for it's environmental blight, and legislate to restore such areas to their original state.
They are only right-wing in the sense that they wish to curtail the freedoms of those who live and work in Poland, and would like to waste our taxes on pointless militarisation for one.
PiS are well to the left of PO in terms of social welfare and re-distributing wealth. They exist to tax business.
Well tis a shame PO hasn't undone the tax suffocation that you are presumably alleging PiS has caused, isn't it. Tax and zus screws the life out of business here but PO has done nothing tangible if anything at all to help. You seem to get your ideas from some funny places Doug. PiS are far from what you suggest, youre evidently on another planet some of the time.
PO has done nothing tangible if anything at all to help.
I know! All you can do is minimise your tax liabilities by cutting fat. That's why I put my businesses in my wife's name and stopped paying ZUS. Now I work for her. It's completely ridiculous that a man and wife, running the same S.C. are liable for 1,400 zl a month EACH at the last count in ZUS payments alone.
But PIS will/would actually make the situation worse. For a start they would drive away inward investment by their myth that big corporations have somehow robbed Poland of it's post communist "wealth." Then we will have PIS sponsored repeated petty "visits" from the tax office (as if employing people wasn't hard enough) which miraculously disappeared when PO took over in 2007.
I swear I will set the dog on them if those snoopers come on my property.
Scoff away eh? :) I wish I was on another planet, smoking, or drinking champagne this morning. But everywhere in Poland today, tiny little outfits like mine, and much bigger ones, are despairing of how short-sighted people are.
But everywhere in Poland today, tiny little outfits like mine, and much bigger ones, are despairing of how short-sighted people are.
I wish you success Doug, but I assure you that aint the case about despairing. The tiny little outfits are suffocated by zus already and they probably voted PiS. The problem is people are tired of politicians just doing what's best for themselves, so enough of them are giving PiS a go again. PiS must now work hard to keep their good faith although the PO gov will continue to call the tune.
"@Levi: since Poland is by far the no. 1 EU funds' recipient and pays peanuts to the EU budget, Poland shall do as what Brussels says. When one depends upon other people's money, one has very limited freedom.
In Poland, everything is paid by the EU (= taxpayers from German, France, UK (as per %),, then the Netherlands, Italy...) and should the Polish government say something against the EU, funds shall be cut...
Poland is too weak to rule the place..."
1 - I am not Levi :P
2 - For me, Poland by doing that (Selling the land and security of his own citizens for few EU bucks), is behave like a woman of easy life.
"We can but hope that the parliament doesn't swing the same way to the left."
It was PiS, not SLD that won this election
I am a assumed right-wing, that likes economic freedom with moral and social values. Both PO and PiS are right wing. SLD is left.
You mean the moral values that would deny a woman the right to her own body with the help of 21st century science? And dictate to others how they should live their lives in the face of liberalisation and those countries moving with the times throughout the rest of Europe?
Most western Poles want that very life, as we can see from the ballot box.
Those in the east of course are free to live how the hell they like. They can choke on the sacrament for all I care.
Or social values that give PIS the right to harass it's citizens going about their lawful business as the PIS government so did in 2005 and 2006?
Do us a favour :) You were not here and don't know what you are talking about.
You mean the moral values that would deny a woman the right to her own body with the help of 21st century science?
Sorry to go off topic but if thats a ref to abortion, it's definitely wrong. A foetus is not a thing to be tossed away. Thats a terrible disregard for human life and just because it's probably gone on for centuries one way or another does not ever make it right. Might as well use the same tired argument to say we give people the right to do what they want with their bodies and let any physical harm one person does to another get legalised. Abortion is a disgusting practice.
first official visit,Duda laid flowers on Pilecki (who was murdered by Komorowskis friends)and UB victims commemorating place,today...strong message..he said,his remains will be found
no wonder ,all those PO are panicking.most of them ,commie collaborators,UB agents and **** like this. including Bolek Walesa,kwach,and Komorowski.. it reminds me funny situation,in which Komoruski saying to fight totalitarism and hatred in tv spot..as soon as tv spot was over,next on tv was Kwach and Cimoszewicz,urging people to vote on Komoruski...lol
Sorry to go off topic but if thats a ref to abortion, it's definitely wrong.
Let's not go there - but only to say, where do you think Polish girls go for abortions then? The fairy? Does the girl in question happily text her friends "I'm off to Holland on the bus to get a nice abortion - oh goody!?"
Lodz harped on about morality. What he meant to say was "catholic middle-ages morality."
It's Pro-choice or Pro-life, and 18-30 year olds in western Poland would vote for the first - I will happily wager you that.
Anyway I was really referring to IVF.....
Duda is a wrong 'un and only lawyers and those with no college education voted for him is my guess.
first official visit,Duda laid flowers on Pilecki (who was murdered by Komorowskis friends)and UB victims commemorating place,today...strong message..he said,his remains will be found
This is great news Gregy!!
Already the PIS machine is in full swing. The more this nationalist and racist homophobe - who couldn't even look the camera in the eye on the presidential debates - does of this type of thing the better!
Kwach and Cimoszewicz
I think you will find that PIS do not have any politicians with the experience of those two. I seem to recall they were both in their own ways accepted by the financial markets as knowing what they were doing (even if the latter was only foreign minister).
A PiS parliamentary victory would probably lead to some dramatic changes. If its arch-rival PO wins, a rerun of the Polish-Polish "war" that has plagued the country over the past decade is likely. If PiS wins, a pivotal role may be played by anti-PO rock musician Paweł Kukiz who came third, wining over 20% support mostly among younger anti-system voters. If the new political party he sets up does anywhere as well in the parliamentary election, a potential PiS-Kukiz coalition could bring about major people-friendly and nation-friendly changes on the Polish scene.
It's Pro-choice or Pro-life, and 18-30 year olds in western Poland would vote for the first - I will happily wager you that. And that's because they know not what they do. Killing an unborn child. Later in life many have a terrible conscience about it. It should not happen, wherever it happens. It's not pro choice, it's not a thing like buying a new iPad next week or next month in silver or in black.
It's not pro choice, it's not a thing like buying a new iPad next week or next month in silver or in black.
I will remind you eh? that I was referring to IVF as I stated. Thanks.
Better dead than red.
Er - nobody in my Polish family ever voted for Kwasniewski or that scum Miller, or any SLD, ever. I don't put Cimoszewicz in the same category though, even if his father was a nasty piece of work.
Half the people in the Solidarity televised debates were ex party, Geremek et al, that Jewish gentleman who walked out on Walesa, etc, and you have to be selective.
For instance - why do people suffer Ryszard Kalisz? The fact that by all accounts he is great to work for is surely by and by....?
That's the trouble with PIS - nothing was ever objective. And back in 2005 IT ALL covered their lack of sensible economic policies.
