Have PO (Platforma) operatives in Poland fallen into a panic?

Under the right circumstances definitely. Besides the foaming-at-the-mouth libertines and the hard-nosed pro-capitalist contingent, there are still some decent, responsible conservatives in PO. Some go back to the Three Tenors whom Tusk disposed of to grasp total power.

However, my hypothesis envisaged only 3 parties in the Sejm. It is not inconceivable that SLD, Petru and maybe PSL (perhaps totalling 18%) will make it under the wire. A slim PO win would open opportunities for PO, but a slim PiS win would be disastrous to PiS. Again the size of the Kukiz vote might make the difference.

They didn't vote to return now, they voted for somewhere to return to.


Poland kept getting richer and nicer.


What happened was that Poland became a good place to live if you had an education. If you were only fit to wash old people and dishes...well, the UK and Western Europe is still far more attractive.

Let's hope it stays that way.


Unprecedented since democracy was reintroduced - I remember the atmosphere at the time; people were partying in the streets when JK grudgingly acknowledged defeat!


That's one of the silliest things I've ever read here - and there's a lot of competition. Do you know many people who change their whole lives every couple of years when a government gets voted out?


That's actually quite funny...

Yes, I'd agree with that. The worst possible scenario would see PiS relying on Kukiz for around 235 seats. Can you imagine liberal Gowin coming up against Kukiz's insane populism? I'd rather see PiS win an outright majority than have PiS relying on Kukiz, to be honest - it would be terrible to see Kukiz holding up PiS, especially with his blatant lies about suddenly being more Catholic than anyone else. Thankfully, the Church seems to be distancing themselves from Kukiz.


It's not inconceivable that PO and PiS could find common ground. PO moved rather to the left-of-centre economically in the last while, and there are enough conservative minded people within PO to agree some sort of programme with PiS. It's the problem that PO have - many of the PO backbenchers are more conservative than the leaders would like to admit.

"That's one of the silliest things I've ever read here - and there's a lot of competition. Do you know many people who change their whole lives every couple of years when a government gets voted out?"

Your argument hinges on that, I'm just running with the ball you lopped in your own goal

At the election after 2007, Po's majority increased or decreased? Thats how good they are yeah.

He might do - in the US. Please keep up Delph.

Meanwhile - peeps like Polonious don't pay a zloty in tax here so can give an opinion , but it isn't worth much.

It's essentially a conservative party -together with PSL they've been very sound stewards of the economy.


What argument? It isn't some sort of debating society. These are cold hard facts that people have to live with not half-baked Jesuitical rhetoric about you pretending people move at the drop of a hat on election day...

No, I rollerblade my way across town?! Of course I drive. What has that got to do with anything. Trains only rarely.

"These are cold hard facts that people"
Cold hard facts are hard to come by, propaganda very easy to stumble upon

"It's essentially a conservative party -together with PSL they've been very sound stewards of the economy."

Bar stewards?

Very eloquent of you,


Many don't in a city (remember we were neighbours and I never used one then) and this has to be the priority of any government - the improvements in public transport under the Citizens' Platform contrast strongly with the PiS flappers whose only changes either when either in local or central government were to mess up the ticketing in Warsaw and to ban alcohol from railway restaurant cars!

Your beloved mayor Gronkowiec (like the staph infection she was named after) has cluttered and disfigured the city with her traffic-jam-promoting little black posts making parking all but impossible. Wilson Square (or Circle but plac can be either) as a roundabout should facilitate smooth traffic flow but she has installed 4 separate sets of stop lights in that small area. Most likely one of her PO cronies or his brother-in-law has made a killing by coincidnetally (?!) winning the tender to manufacture and instal those hideous little posts. And last I heard she still hasn't removed that hideous rainbow eyesore desecrating Our Saviour Square.

"Very eloquent of you"
in which case "PiS flappers" is certainly no less eloquent if you're making anatomical references

The best Mayor we've ever had in Warsaw. She and her PO colleagues have certainly improved the traffic round plac Wilsona and is clamping down or poor parking. The national joke Lech Kaczynski just huffed and puffed about brothels and bars but actually did nothing.


I'll perhaps pass that to her lawyers. Remember, in your line of 'work' you aren't exactly anonymous.


Maybe the armed attack dogs you pretended were there in the article you wrote won't let her.

You may not like the Citizens' Platform for your own odd reasons, however they've been the best government we've had in Warsaw since the 1930s. She's a little too right-wing for my tastes, however she does a very good job on the whole and she's survived everything that the PiS flappers have thrown at her.

You must be to the left of Dzierżyński and Stalin!
Lech Kaczyński not only created the Warsaw Uprising Museum had also the courage to stop that cretinous "proud to be a freak" pink wig & feather extravaganza.

A snitch you are? Read some of the garbage and abuse posters put on the net about her.

The museum was planned long before that and if you mean the parade, it happened anyway and his so-called 'ban' was ruled illegal, like so much else the silly old booby tried to do.

The Citizens' Platform however have been a success in Warsaw and in Poland.

For corrupt politicians, scam artists, conmen, the shady business sector and those on the take -- definitely, but not for the average Pole, not for the Polish nation. You must live in a very sheltered environment and rarely interact with ordinary Poles if you still nurture such delusions. The verdict will be delivered in October. Bye-bye PO! And, hopefully, bye-bye radical a leftist expats! Go and make some other country miserable! Your ilk will not be wecome in the Catholic nad patriotic IV RP!

How would you describe the massive increase in the minimum wage, the hugely improved infrastructure and the general positivity found in Poland, then?


The ordinary Pole is defined as what, exactly?


Except it won't happen ;)


Driven to Wrocław recently?

Aside from being a treasonous suggestion which will go down in the history books as exactly that, it simply won't happen.


A perfect definition of the PiS flappers.


He means ones who agree with him.


This is noticeable and a contrast to the despondency of the brief PiS regime.

90% of Polish society, the non-elite who do not have a finger in the pie, are not part of the "układ" (in-group, oldboy network), watch the plutocrats get richer as they themselves have to skimp and scramble to make ends meet. The ones who do not have savings accounts, cannot afford private healthcare, do not holiday abroad and at best own a 15-year-old car if at all.

Unlike your optimistic evaluation, average Poles remember the unkept promises, the raising of retirement age, the scandals (gambling, secret tapes, etc.), the veritable collapse of the state health service (appointments 6 months to 1 year away), delayed road-building projects, the use of OFE funds to shore up the budget and local abuses by PO fatcats. Add to that the exhaustion of seeing shifty-eyed Tusk and his PO menagerie on TV for 8 years.

Since about 55% of eligible voters are likely to vote that would be about 49% of the above.mentioned 90% of the nation. The overwhelming majority of them are expected to vote for PiS who are likely to win 38-40% of the vote. Those are the ordinary Poles.

Crapola. Worth remembering how you were heavily criticised in that online rag you write for over in America for spreading the same sort of nonsense. None of it reflects reality; it's just an unconvincing attempt at bad propaganda.

The only reality is that Poles no longer fall for "strachy na Lachy". PO functionaries and propagandists (like the notorious Julia Pitera) are working overtime to badmouth PiS and intimidate voters with a distorted picture of the glorious IV RP, but it's like the boy that cried wolf -- it just ain't workin' anymore.

The whole PO legacy has consisted in sweeping their own dirt under the rug whilst pouring scorn and ridicule on PiS. And it actually worked up to a point. But as Lincoln said: You can fool all of the people some of the time, some off the people all of the time (like the gullible PO voters of yesteryear!), but you can never fool all of the people all of the time. Even traditional PO backers are now seeing the light.

PO, your time is up. you've had your fun and feathred your nest. Now it's time to pack your bags and say goodbye to Wiejska: "Żegnaj Sejmie, żegnaj Senacie, żegnaj rządzie! Do zobaczenia w XXII wieku!".

And you can rest assured that the IV RP will remove that hideous rainbbow eyesore. There's a patch of barren ground on the outskirts of Rembertów next to the city dump where they can set it up so the freak parade will have something to march round -- far out of the sight of normal, decent, God-fearing Poles.

Please keep to the topic

Here's a nice article. It's in Polish so I'll summarise. It's basically saying how much the Citizens' Platform and the economist Petru could and should work together towards common goals.

tomaszlis.natemat.pl/148169,platforma-potrzebuje-petru-i-odwrotnie

The article ends:


meaning:

That would bolster the Platformers' hard-nosed pro-capitalist wing. By "razem " dis they mean Petru should join PO or form a coaliton after the poll? The problem is Petru is amongst the mini-groupings that may not make it under the wire. If Petru and PSL don't and SLD does, do you think would PO consider a a coalition with ex-commies and Katyń conspirators? You'd probably like that because it would envigorate PO's anarcho-libertine fringe.

Bear in mind that PiS already had informal coalitions with the SLD in the past, such as in Warsaw.

The quesiton was not about the past but the futre. You seem to have a fair grasp of Polish politics, so could you envisage a formal PO-SLD coalition or only an ad hoc parliamentary voting alliance?

It's a tough question. It would certainly mean an end to the post-1989 SLD vs post-Solidarność divide that characterised the first 25 years of democracy, and arguably the same centrist voters that put the SLD into power are the same ones that put PO into power. But there are some important personality conflicts there - Miller would frankly annoy the hell out of most PO members, and there's no real common ground these days between the PSL and the SLD too.

I could forsee a formal PO/PSL coalition getting around 200-210 seats, with the remaining 25-30 seats being held by the SLD. Let's say that Kukiz falls victim to PiS and PO agreeing informally to get rid of him as he's a threat to both parties and doesn't meet the 5% threshold - so PiS end up with a huge win of around 40-1%. In this scenario, you've got PiS on 210, PO on around 180, PSL on 30 and the SLD on 30. PO and the PSL are natural allies, so you end up with around 210/210, give or take a handful of seats. The SLD then play kingmakers - and I can see agreements being made with both PiS and PO/PSL. Most probably - the SLD would rather put PO/PSL into government - but I can also see them working against the government regularly.

I could particularly see Duda working with the SLD and PiS on pushing through a lot of defence/security related matters. Both parties have been cosy to the United States, and PiS in particular would do well from such an arrangement without having the responsibility of government.

That would be a blueprint for disaster, ie a continutiaon of the Polish-Polish war which has been a huge waste of time, energy, money and human creativity. The tit for tat attacks and venous exchanges remind one of a kindergarten.

Although I obviously favour PiS a narrow PiS win with PO close behind would mean more of the same. Macierewicz will pull some off-the-wall stunt, Niesiołowski will spew his venom and it'll start up all over again.

So I would actually prefer a strong win by either PiS or PO, eg 40% - 22%, rather than 37% - 32%. Anything's better than more of that brainless slugfest! It's also hard to predict how the fringe parties will do: SLD, Petru, Kukiz, PSL, Korwin.

"Governing party approval rating ticks up"

Source:
thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/213752,Governing-party-approval-rating-ticks-up

I guess people are learning that Pani BS presented illogical economics.

Notice PO approval ratings highest amongst educated people.

Known in Polish as wykształciuchy. Semi-literate academic snobs of the johnny come lately variety who still have straw sticking out of their shoes. You can tell who they are becuase they look down on those with lesser education, less affluent, from small towns and rural areas, Poland B, etc. A truly educated person does not flaunt or try to imrpess others with his educational achievements but altruistically uses them to help those less fortunate.

Fair enough, although not relevant. By the way, what I said above was not my own opinion, but rather something mentioned in the same article.

What have you got to say for PiS's illogical economics?