Penderecki, Poland's greatest living composer, accused of being SB informer

History should be explored, its falsehoods exposed and its full truth revealed. Sweeping things under the carpet or creating simplistic sugara-coated narrations will not change history. But what useful purpose does it serve to continue the injusitces of the past such as perpetuating the undeserved perks and privileges of the nation's post-KOR/PZPR minority who already have exploited the nation for what it was worth. Anyone who backs and defends today's losers' camp is doing precisely that and saying that 2/3 of the nation are forever doomed to languish in poverty and remain unperprivileged and disadvanatged whilst someone else enjoys all the fruits and goodies.

Arise, ye prisoners of starvaaaaaaation!

(you are such a komuch)

You are such a PRL-style elitist. The red bourgeosie lived it up and had special yellow-curtian shops while ordinary Poles queued for everything.

No. I'm a realist. The changeover from communism to capitalism was going to increase inequality and there was no way to punish the entire PRL establishment without punishing the rest of the population even more.

And in your country, do rich people and poor people have the same shopping habits?

Very sad that you're insulting Penderecki.

And have you seen how the PIS elite behave ? Government cars to take them to a disco, the army stopping traffic for Macierewicz because he can not be bothered to walk 50 metres to a zebra, private planes home every week for the puppet PM and the puppet president. I care more about that than who could buy better ham 30 years ago.

so...like any "elite" and "politicians" everywhere in the world?

I'm using quotation marks because there are some guys out there who can actually walk in the streets with the normal populace without being torn to shreds, but these cases are rare.

Ms Merkel, for instance, needs a North-Korean-grade wall of tanks, sharp-shooters, security and 1000+ policemen and military to clear the streets for her and her cronies, so they can walk in front of the cameras and pretend to be among the people (who are carefully selected staff, of course, pretending to be waving and cheering normal citizens lol).

No - that is not the norm - in most of the democracies of Europe it would be unusual. Not sure if you have ever seen the pictures of David Cameron going on holiday on Ryanair, eating pringles. This sort of entitlement and arrogant posturing would be unthinkable in many countries like Holland or Sweden or even in other ex Commie countries like Croatia or Lithuania. Kaczynski himself described his party as Lords only 2 weeks ago.

I am very sceptical about your claims re Merkel - last year I was at a Berlin hotel when she turned up to meet a delegation I think from Iraq or Jordan - there was security and I had to stay put in the driveway with my car but I doubt there were more than 20 police and certainly no army - but in any case she was on official business, not on holiday. There are also pictures of her doing her shopping with 2 security guards a few days after the Berlin attack.

Jusr sharing a news item, Too bad you didn't see it first.


Very true. Politicians are politicians and the name of the game is getting to the trough and staying there as long as possible. But while they're there, some politicans like PiS do think a bit about their voters, ordinary citizens and shape their programme accordingly. Some of the latter will themselves eventually evolve into the next elite which hopefully will be more democratic than the salon-style PZPR/KOR/POO establishment. One thing is certain. No single elite ever rules indeifnitely as the hare-braiend "total opposition" maintians.

Nope, smearing him. Your commentary on this was despicable.

It's very similar as to how they behaved in the PZPR, which shouldn't surprise any of us.

The fact that Polonius keeps talking about "ordinary people" while PiS stuff themselves with expensive meals says it all.

The Belkas, Sikorskis, Rostowskis et al held thier taped chats at a milk bar or grabbed a hot dog at a petrol station, eh? Seeing a splinter in someones eye but not the beam in one's own!

What about Macierewicz's motorcade leaving the scene of an accident or Szydłos going through a developed area without sirens...

Very PRL, VIPs causing havoc and then leaving...

At 90km/h, nonetheless. The evidence from the black box from the car "can't be read".

Hipocrisy to the nth degree. When POO was in power and abused it and caused scams and other problesm, and refulkarly felw to Gdańsk and did all koidns of costly, self-serving things you were silent as a churchmouse under a broom. Suddenly you have become loquacious and finger-pointing. Never heard any complaitns from you about the pricey outrageous (marinated baby octopus!?) meals at Sowa's nor the nasty things said there. Horse-blinkered hypocrisy par excellence! The splitner and beam fit yoju to a T!

Ah this marry go around. What is that? Has PiS gone bonkers or someone is sabotaging them?
The only option is to make a public knowledge of names and faces of all people involved with soviet secret police including officers of those services and its military branch.

That got to stop.

"claims"...right

anonymousnews.ru/2016/10/02/einheitsfeier-in-dresden-merkel-regime-laesst-panzer-auffahren/

if you don't understand German, use translate. Dozens of battle tanks, hundreds of snipers, etc, there are loads of photos and videos about it everywhere.

You seriously think we're going to take a .ru website seriously?

The idea of Merkel being surrounded by tanks and snipers is classic Russian propaganda designed to spread fear.

*facepalm*

I have relatives in Dresden. They all saw it firsthand, so did millions of other people who were in the city.
Ever heard of social media, youtube etc?
You won't find truthful news originating in Germany these days, their entire press is nothing but a propaganda central for Merkel and her insanity.

You can continue to be an ignorant troll now, I don't care one straw what you think or believe.

Basically yes. Angela Merkel obviously needs far greater security than a less important politician here since the risks are greater - just as the American president has much more security than the Portuguese president however I would not trust a .ru site to provide balanced news.

Yes, yes, you've seen it all, yet you can only provide a .ru source to back up your claims.

In case you haven't noticed, this is PolishForums, and we can spot Russian propaganda from a mile away.

SO the KOR/PZPR/RT clique decided to punish the majority of the Polish nation so they and their cronies could live in luxury. Brilliant!

No, too many competent people were involved in various ways with the PZPR for Poland to get along easily without them.

Does that incldue UB/SB types skilled at pulling off fingernails with pliers or using dental drills on the interrogated party's heallthy teeth? What about people beaten up, murdered or disappearing without a trace at the hands of "unidentified assailants"? That is the scum seeking safe haven under the banners of KOD these days. No-one wnats to penalise rank-and-file party members but only the Krmelin stooges in leadership roles. Not everyone who signed something to get the red scum of their back was a collaborator. Some signed but never cotnribtued a thing or fed their SB guardians things they read in the regimist press. But, yes, there were some whose collaboration was lucrative for them but harmed others, destroyed their lives and families. Only a full, open, honest vetting procedure is able to sort out who was who. No fair, democratic system can equate vicitmisers with victims, let alone give preferential treatmetn to the former and effectively penalise the latter.

I'd love to put people that did crap like that in jail, but it requires a detailed and careful appraisal and not mass banninations.

Poland has never shown the political will to come to impartial recounting of the communist period.

Poland has, but the KOR/PZPR RT clique did everything in their power to undermine it. Never confuse or equate Poland with the tin-horn politicians who have dominated the potlical stage since 1989 (with the exception of 2005-2007 and 2015-2017). There was never a popular referendum on rozliczenie reżimu. If you had been in Poland long enough you would have known that rozliczenia was one of the most widely discussed concepts in the post-1989 period. Th biggest failure of the past 27 years was the 1992 parliamentary coup that overthrew the government when it wanted to expose the full truth about the past. Wałęsa teamed up with poltiicans he know had things on their consciences they wanted to hide, toppled the Olszewski cabinet and effectively derailed the vetting procedure. See "Nocna zmiana" on YouTube.

Indeed, look at today. PiS are trying desperately to cover up the presence of an SB snitch as their ambassador to Germany, and they've got a Communist Party public prosecutor occupying a prime place in their government. Then there's the people who come from heavy PZPR families, and you soon realise that there's no will whatsoever.

I'm all for genuine lustration as well, but the consequences should be a complete ban on anyone that held membership of the PZPR or their parentsl as well as anyone that worked for the PZPR in any way. Only then can Poland be truly "lustrated".

You've just said there were too many competent people in the PZPR for that, now you're advocating it. One can see you come from the POO stable. (Maybe you'd make a good stableboy to shovel the poo!? LOL)

Anyway, when PiS annoucned 500+ POO said it would break the budget. Then they zturnedround and said there should be 500 zł also for the first child but failed to mention the bugdet. Amerindians used to call that speaking with forked tongue like PF's LL.

It did. Haven't you seen the total failure to put new roads to tender, the total failure to order submarines and the cancelling of the helicopters order while the introduction of the bank tax led PKO Bank BP to introduce significant fee hikes?

They found money for 500+ by cutting everything else.

Tell us, Polonius, would you be in favour of everyone's activities for the PZPR and affiliates being revealed? I certainly would.

That would cover 70-80% of society, probably more. Every director of a hosptial, library, school, factory, housing coop, retail establishment, every officer above the rank fo lieutenant and most of the rest were party members and were forced to join to feed their families. Even farmers were theoretically free but in fact had to follow PZPR-imposed obligatory deliveries of produce at below-market prices, so they too were serving the regime. You certainly wouldn't considering that you feel too many competent people were involved. I repeat -- those whose activities directly harmed others and those in leadership posts who created those policies should be penalised. You keep changing your position, so one knows you're part of the KOD-POO-Petru gang. POO warned 500+ would riu'uin the budget and then proposed 500+ for all which would cause even more harm. Amnesia? Schizophrenia? Mannic-depressive syndrome? No, TOTAL(LY HARE-BRAINED) OPPOSITION!