Poland Parliament elections in October 2011

the thing is Orban's calls fell on deaf ears in Tusk government - they think we only need to be a German sycophant and it solves all our European questions

What makes you think that is the case, I believe that it was under Tusk that we developed a common defense policy with the Visegrad Group.

phew ....any foundations for your stipulations ?

We discussed this on some other thread a few months ago. Here is another source:

defenceviewpoints.co.uk/articles-and-analysis/visegrad-group-a-new-european-military-force


So what makes you think that is the case?

The more amazing thing is that he does appear to be so - he's now lost something like 13 elections, yet he's still the leader of the second biggest party.

But I noticed something different this time. Unlike before, when they were rabidly behind him - it seems PiS are much, much more laid back - his speech was short, his henchmen looked exceptionally pissed off...all in all, not good news for him. If he can survive until the 2014 European elections, I'll be amazed.

I am amused how he compares himself to victor Orban, the far more younger, telegenic, and charismatic Hungarian Prime Minister(:

He's known for his sense of humour ;)

Even the PiS voters on here (yes, even those that claimed to vote for Nowa Prawica) don't seem to be backing him now.

Great news! Poland really is changing, for the worse!

One of 2 things are now going to happen.

Either people suddenly realise they have let it get to far and put a stop to it

or

Poland completely turns away from its past and turns in to a GB/USA wannabe, multiculturalist, foreign run, anti Church, do what you want, melting pot. Basically it would lose most of the values it used to have and proudly stand for. I wonder what some of the past greats such as John Paul II and Jozef Pilsudski are thinking?

For the worse?

Perhaps you should be more concerned about why a priest did this, as opposed to claiming that the country is getting worse. That's exactly the mentality that's causing the Catholic Church to lose power/influence all over the world - blaming everyone else rather than looking inside.


I can clearly see that you've never lived here - otherwise you wouldn't come out with such rubbish. Poland has been multicultural for years and years. Need I remind you that Poland in the times of the Commonwealth was one of the most tolerant, open countries in Europe? Do you need reminded that Kashubians, Lemkos, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Germans, Lithuanians, Poles, Jews and more all lived quite happily within her borders?

Let's be honest - you're just a kid that's utterly dissatisified with his life in the UK and fantasies about how great Poland is, but you don't actually live here. All these "values" you talk about - they only existed in a brief 20 year period of Polish history.

If Piłsudski can hear now you he must laugh at you profoundly. Go see for example Wikiquote, pl.wikiquote.org/wiki/Józef_Piłsudski. Pay attention to his idea of multiculturalism, see what he thought about freedom of religion for national and religious minorities. He was also being accused of treating religion instrumentally:


Just few of his "pearls":
- Poles are a nation of idiots.
- Wonderful nation, only people are kurvas.
- Religion is for people without brains.

You look my delphian, you always seem to reply to every point I make, negatively of course.

Firstly I am not a kid. Secondly I am slightly dissatisfied with life where I live, not on a financial level, but on a morale level. This is where I see Poland as vastly superior to GB, or it used to be anyway. As for tolerating Kashubians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians etc. They were and are, far closer to the our culture that Asians, Africans and even British folks. As for the values I talk about, I might not live there but I know about its past, Poland not only had the Christian religion for hundreds of years but it was part of its culture. The cross is also a part of the culture. PO does not push this but at least it does not try to get rid of completely, whereas I can think of at least 2 parties who would like to whipe out that past and pretend it was never a part of Poland. PS. I wonder if you could tell me more about yourself and how you got here. You seem to act as if you know a lot about the country, so what is your story? You like to call me a 'fake Polak,' even though I speak in Polish at home, keep a keen eye on what is happening in Poland and have even considered going to Poland permanently a few times. Of course unless I live in the country I can not be a real Polish guy right?

Side note. Apparently 15% of votes were void again [according to TVN i was watching today, not Gazeta Polska].

taking about rigged election ....

@ boletus

Where did you get the quotes? That reliable site known as wikiquotes where any twerp can write what they want? Or some other unreliable sight. Why would he say religion is for a brainless person if he was religious?

Agree, Wikiquote is the only a quick and rough way to knowledge. But go ahead, be my guest and search then study some serious historical books. You apparently need this since you know nothing about Piłsudski.

And you will find that wiki quotes are actually very accurate. Even Kaczyński quotes them over and over again:
In 2010, after lost presidential election and few days ago he quoted part of this Piłsudski's expression:

So, you believe that Poland is Moral Arcadia?

Yes.

But the world is changing and we with it.


That is good.


That is bad. And painful, indeed.

But it is democracy. People vote as they want.

You have to accept their voices.

Do you suggest that democracy should be abolished in Poland so that a conservative dictatorship could halt the rejection of old values?

Democracy must take its natural path. Pure and simple!

people who vote are for the most part voting blindly ie do not know what they are voting for

Again, like Piłsudski, you consider Poles idiots? Even that 50% that voted? :):):)

Iron, be reasonable. Before you write sth like that, think a little about the last elections. Don`t you realise that those who did go and vote were the most determined and conscious of their choices? And they knew exactly who they want to support or reject?

yep thats the sad part

New parliament members that Poland hasn`t seen yet: 4. Actually, there has already been one black member in Polish Sejm before.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Godson

As former MP Hanna Zdanowska was elected Mayor of £ódź in the same election, Godson replaced her as a member of the Sejm. He was sworn in on 14 December 2010. The "Obama bump" is considered by many the reason for the many votes he received during the Sejm campaign.[1] His supporters were known to cheer "Vivat! Vivat Polski Obama!" ("Long live the Polish Obama!"). John Godson was re-elected as a member of the Polish parliament on the 9th of October 2011 with 29,832 votes [2]

But there are going to be two now!

Black academic teacher Killion Munyama (PO ) has obtained a parliamentary seat starting in the circle covering the counties of northern and western Wielkopolska. As stated , the voters took into account his competence , not skin color.

A native of Zambia Munyama started from eighth place on the list of PO . He won almost 8,000 votes. So far, the provincial deputy to the regional council .

Both represent PO. Show me a country in Eastern Europe where black people are MPs? :):):):):)

New parliament members that Poland hasn`t seen yet: 5

Do you know that (in)famous agent Ton got his seat?


Iron, I admit. PiS voters can be blind at times, indeed.


Do you mean they will stop voting PiS?

Good news that shows the inherent tolerance and fair play of the Polish people, that they already have 2 black members of parliament(:
I think the most recently elected MP, has quite an impressive CV.
The other interesting thing is that the people of Lods chose John Godson, ahead of the party's networker par excellence Cezary Grabraczyk.

you are one hell of a joker - 'con them into corruption schemes hehe' - poor little Beata Sawicka -

Applied Dialectics, continues ...
During the election campaign: Jarosław Kaczyński said that their internal polls suggested PiS going ahead of PO, at times.

After the election: Hofman explains that the study did not detect two things: the changes in voters support, but, more importantly, growth in voters participation. The turnout of voters were underestimated, and that turnout has obviously affected the outcome of the election - he said.

Looks like PO treacherously manipulated the public into:
a. Switching sides and voting against PiS
b. Visiting polling stations en mass

you get very philosophical boletus - PO turned into scare mongers a week before the campaign end, then came the Merkel-scare surge that Kaczyński unfortunately helped to explode - and yes it made many people who didn't really intend to vote to go to the polls and detain the perceived Kaczyński-threat

That is why I have always considered PiS as and for intellectually underdeveloped. Not because they invented such nonsense.
But because they have seemed to believe that people will believe their crap.
Unfortunately for them, only 30% voters do. And the number is diminishing.
The Polish peoples are getting their education.


That was a good trick by PO. It reminded me of similar tricks played by PiS in former campaigns. Did you forget Wehrmacht grandpa, empty fridge, Mordo ty moja? :):):):)

What matters is that PiS has been contained. Glory to God for that!

Wehrmacht grandpa was not used in a TV spot AFAIK - it first emerged as a topic in local newspaper before publicized by the mainstream media - and it instantly was attemptedly used against PiS by the media (to prove how nationalistic and xenophobic they are)

The hottest news!

Hungarian Prime Minister, Viktor Orban, asks Poles not to move Budapest to Warsaw!!

provide a link, please

Come on, does it really matter when or where it was used? What matters is it was successfully used by PiS against PO in 2005. Today, PO is paying beautiful for fair - pięknym za nadobne, keeping it very decent as they didn`t lie as much as PiS. Isn`t it perfectly all right, Gumishu???? :):):):)

Godson has a fantastic reputation in Lodz, while Grabraczyk is..well... not a star in PO.