Poland may take the EU to court if they step up pressure -- Kaczyński

The majority didn't vote for PiS, in a normal democracy a coalition of the current opposition would be in power.


Poland wouldn't even exist without the Treaty of Versailles and at that it was only re-established to be a buffer between Germany & Russia, obviously WWII showed that was a failure. But we'll blame the allies for that, wasn't really Poland's fault.


Poland was advancing so well, until last October, but at the next election hopefully Poland will be back on the right track, so long as it doesn't become a fascist-totalitarian state before then, which is very possible.

Which media did he close down?

Most didn't. Don't worry though - at the next election there will be even bigger change - we can expect quite a backlash against the current shower, as last time.

it was advancing so well that the state debt doubled in 8 years even despite the fact that the government stole 150 billion PLN from poeple's retirement funds with the help of your beloved Constitutional Tribunal


is the UK a normal democracy? - why are Tories governing with below 40 per cent of votes in the last election

And PiS have lost what? A billion dollars off the Polish stock market since then? Nice


Certainly isn't, if anything the UK is one of the worst democracies in the EU, first past the post isn't true democracy.
Proportion representation is proper democracy, Poland not allowing independent parties and politicians (that BS 5% rule) just proves that the Polish government in 1989 never intended for true democracy to take hold in Poland.

Much more than that. The WIG is down by some ten billion zloty over the last 12 months, a 17% fall which makes Warsaw the worst performing stock market in the world outside of Nigeria. And things are going to get worse.

1) most of democracies in Europe have a threshold just like in Poland sometimes lower sometimes higher
2) there was a time we didn't have the threshold and it was very difficult to form a parliamentary majority - the threshold was introduced in 1993


I does not matter much in the short term how much the Warsaw stock market lost - stock markets are not vital sources of income for the state and VAT scammers are very detrimental to the budget at the moment

They are in act very much a vital source of income, including in the short term. Since it looks like you disagree with the importance of a healthy economy, you might reflect on:

- jobs and labour; this is highly susceptible to changes in a country's markets - and so far under PiS this has been a disaster

- trust and confidence in a country's economy; this affects the level of inward investment and the ability of Polish companies to fund their activities and of course is linked to the markets - trust (and inward investment) have fallen massively since PiS took office.

- the value of investments held by Polish citizens and others; even minor fluctuations hit investors hard; and people lost a lot of their savings/large investers a lot of their assets when PiS caused the Polish markets to plummet

- the tax revenues which fall very quickly when companies that are listed on a given market lose value on that market
- the ability of companies to pay a good price for imported raw materials and to get a good price for exported finished goods. This is directly affected by the company's value and capitalisation.

Every one of these factors directly affects revenue to the state - company expansion provides direct tax revenue, in fact any economic activity provides revenue and this as show above is directly (and quickly) affected by the values of companies listed on a market. Falls in the market (which affect income, jobs, savings) happen quickly and are something of a vicious circle. Rises in the market typically take longer to have an effect.

And the current PiS 'government' have messed the whole thing up.

The EU does have a role inb maintaining safe markets.

income tax and vat don't depend on the 'market value' of companies - these two taxes form the majority of the Polish state income


you must be kidding me

Of course they do - where do you think the tax revenue (including personal income tax) comes from? What about tax on goods and services?


Not an economist, are you.

it does not come from the stock market for sure - you must be some kind of idiot - if the drop in stock market value would instantly influence wages and prices of goods we would all feel it in Poland - we haven't - what you write here is some mumbo jumbo

Worth repeating a different way, since you obviously can't grasp the basics (or don't want to - something common among PiS supporters) - from where does a government obtain its revenues?


Would it? That (especially the risible "instantly influence wages" gem) would come as a surprise to many.

Let me try to explain this in very simple terms: if someone invests money on the stock market and makes money, he pays tax on his gains; if someone invests money on the stock market and loses money, he deducts that loss from any other income he has and pays less tax on that income. Is that simple enough for you?

I don't think so, but if you can prove it I'm open to correction.


OK, so I got the year wrong, doesn't change the fact that the process isn't truly democratic.
Absolutely ridiculous that independent politicians & smaller political parties are not allowed any representation.
I have Korwin-Mikke, I really detest him, but his party have a right to be in parliament.

Pretending to be democractic doesn't mean that you are. You know yourself, if Poland was truly democratic then we wouldn't have this embarrassing constitutional tribunal fiasco (and I'm one of the few that believes both PiS and PO are to blame for it).


Yea, no, wrong on this I'm afraid, they matter a lot, like, the matter, really, really, really a lot

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_threshold - look at the chart below the article it lists the European countries with election threshold - majority of them do have a threshold including Germany


explain how :) otherwise it's just mumbo jumbo


yeah I understand it - the point is Harry only a tiny tinusienki minority of Poles invest in the stock market - therefore the fluctuations of the market don't have much impact on the income of the state - simple as that - so yeah the importance of the stock market for Polish economy is by no means vital

You're still not getting the point. Here's another question to think about: what does the value of the stock market reflect?

Which part of the explanation I gave are you struggling with?

you know there is country called the Netherlands which is democracy and has constitution and does not have anything similar to the Polish Constitutional tribunal - whatever laws are passed by the parliament they can't be challenged by any courts just like in Britain

In the UK, thats not true, the Second House, the House of Lords, consists of several hundred unelected cross party members who can block the governments laws. Money bills (taxation etc.) can only be delayed and policies that were in the election mandate should not be blocked by convention. The Lords can also form a court and pass judgement. The Head of State also has the theoretical right to block laws(never happened)

Fair enough, looks like Europe isn't a fan of proper democracy. I'm surprised at that tbh, it's pretty fascist to not allow your populace to be represented like that


Harry did it pretty well in fairness ;)

ok I was not aware of that


and I explained why it does not matter in Poland - at least in the short run

You don't think that the loss of a couple of billion zloty in tax revenue matters in Poland?!

the point is that it won't be a couple of billion PLN for the reasons I have explained - you just take figures from the ceiling

Let's not forget that the TK was the creation of the late communist dictator Jaruzelski. He also set up WRON (the martial-law council) and PRON (celebrities for martila law). All those moves were designed to defuse antui-communist dissident activites. Poland already has a Supreme Court and there is no reason for the taxpayer to support yet antother gang of toga-clad parasitic bureaucrats.

The lovers of PIS have wiped 17% of the value of the Warsaw stock exchange. Capital gains tax in Poland is 19%. Taxable income has been reduced by more than 10 billion zloty (i.e. the amount of the loss), which means the taxman will collect billions less in tax.

Forget about the laughable threats to take the EU to court, Poland should sue the current regime for damages caused by their utter idiocy.

Yea, but your explanation was well,.....how to be diplomatic....somewhat lacking.

Harry is right, PiS have lost an absolute fortune in less than a year.

Sure PO borrowed tons to keep the show on the road (even utopias like Sweden & Switzerland borrow money for things like that). Now, I'm no fan of PO either, but there's a huge difference between borrowing money for running departments and state institutions and y'know, squandering money coz of what's nothing more than ineptitude.

brat Kaczyński is right.

To court, to court. Evil western Europe that manipulate EU is for the court. Let us all just remember what propaganda machinery EU ruling establishment moved against Iraq, Yugoslavia, Serbia, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Russia and now finally but not lastly, Poland. Media propaganda as main tool of political and economical pressure. Then comes the military action, even if it consider use of worse Arab mujaheedines on European soil.

So, to court with them, then jail, interrogation and well deserved punishment.

EU is stupid anyway. Due to pressure and Anglo-Franco-Germanic (and their satellites) abuse of negotiation for EU membership, the day before yesterday Serbia started negotiations with Eurasian Union, while at the same time consider membership in Visegrad Group. The next day, EU granted opening of new chapter to Serbia. Say that EU isn`t sleazy organization.

Sonny, somewhat lacking is an expression that describe you to the core. You evidently have no clue .....and you won't believe anything to the contrary. Ignorance is a bliss.


To work, you Harry on the other hand are well aware that you just lie about people you perceive as your ideological enemies. That low but that is the way with you neo-Marxists. One day all those lies will came back to you and your ilk to bite you in YOUR backside.

Sweden's budget is ballanced for the last ten years or so - it was even positive for a couple of years - I don't think unbalance budgets are adviseable in the long run

Look, I know English isn't your first language but maybe you need to take a break form here, learn more and then come back, coz at the minute the things you're saying make you look kinda dim. Sorry mate.


Yea, that's why I called it a utopia :D
They still borrow though, balancing a budget means paying back what's owed.


They certainly aren't. One of the many reasons PiS won't last very long I'd say.