Jaruzelski dead / his legacy in Poland

The decission has been made- Jaruzelski will be buried on Powązki

Good: that's the right place for him to be buried.

I agree. At least this time noone had the moronic idea to open up Wawel
Yesterday I saw Wałesa saying that even though he and Jaruzelski differed he can't imagine the president of RP buried anywhere else.

Bury him either on Zwirki i Wigory next to his Masters, or in Kremlin.
It is simply put outragegous... what about the families of his victims?
I'd rather put the Wujek victims in there, or the AK veterans which killed while on WSI duty than that.. red ..."general"!

Well, the ex-soldiers and political prisoners organisation doesn't agree with you Goofy. And don't forget that whether you like it or not he was the President.

he was a president of the rigged elections.. ;) not really democratic now was it? ;)
Who agreed with that.. oww the officila, fudned by PO organisation with that Bartoszewski guy on top... :) please I'd rather listen to a comedian than them. Every normal Pole is offended by a mere opinion of Jaruzelski being a .. a man of Honour.. or a Patriot (certainly not ofthe Polish Free State)

I'd like to hope that the funeral will be a respectful affair, but the reality is that some people on the right in Poland are so uncultured that they even boo and heckle at events doing things such as commemorating those who died in the Warsaw Uprising, so there is very little chance that they'll show the respect due to the General.

Wojtek can be respectfully buried somewhere else.. not in the alley of the Zasluzonych.. it is a 100% sure that his grave will destroyed in a day or two :)

Instead.. of the SLD making a public stunt out ofit to the happiness of Newsweek and other propaganda f the regime, how about to respectfully and honestly say that he was not a patriot of Poland, instead he was our little Czauczesko.. a small time petty WSI agent who advanced in ranks.. a guy that killed innocent people fathers and sons of Poland and Ukraine and Czechoslovakia.

I hope that he is laid torest somehere else.. it will only cause a scandal sooner or later.

That will only show the class, culture and upbringing of the ppl that will do it. Nothing more.

nice video about him.
about the place of funeral: he should be packed in beautiful coffin and buried- in the most official ceremony- in Russia, the country that he loved and served so much.

Medals given by ppl like you? Sorry but it rather won't be too valuable.
It's funny to think that pseudopatriots with enough dignity to be a worm will in fact attack the grave, get caught and put in jail or pay a fine to some charity :)

Whatever one may think about Jaruzelski desecrating a grave is a disgracefull thing to do. No true hero would do that- to be a hero you need some integrity.

This is why i do not want his body on Powazki.. It will lead only to certain acts... If we put him where he belongs on Zwirki i Wigory then nothing will be done to him.

But since the SLD and his family want publicity they will get what they want.

No, they want him in a place where Polish presidents and soldiers/veterans are buried.
And noone forces idiots to disecrate his grave.

Idiots anther nupties believe that he was a hero of anything.
He was a red butcher and should be laid to rest with other red butchers from rakowiecka

Since when do you represent all Polish veterans? If you would have stayed in Poland...but you ran off to the UK - whereas you could have contributed to this country big time...not with idiocies on the internet but with taxes, work, social contributions...

Speaking about butchers....your cherished NSZ and their brigada świętokrzyżka....where do you rate them? For them it was always much more interesting to murder Jews as to resist the Nazis.

I don't believe he was a hero but I also judge him by the situation. Ukraine now is perfect example what might have happened, my family member saw army on Polish border...

So no, he was not a hero but maybe he saved Poland for me to live in and I respect that.
Btw- I would be against violating even the grave of Hitler since it's just not something normal ppl do.

If he wasnt a hero as you said, killed Poles, was an antisemite in the 60s (Jewish expulsion)than why should he be laid to rest with the Heroes?

There's a difference between being a hero and being a scumbag. There is a lot of space between those two. And if Wawel is good enough for Kaczyński then Powązki are definately good enough for Jaruzelski.

Today my mom talked to her school friend on the phone. The lady had a student that was in the army when martial law was introduced. He told her that every few hours new Russian soldiers were delivered to their unit to the point where Poles had to move to give space. He said he was thankful to Jaruzelski because if it wasn't for him and martial law town steets would be drowned with blood.

A way of justification probably i trust experts and historians from the IPN, not my mums friends.

I never trusted and never will trust IPN. Simple. I prefer ppl that I know are not liers and just say what they saw. I guess my family member also didn't see the army on the border...

Hahaha well this where we differ then i believe a written document, whereas you believe to some guys tales...
Too bad ..

Apart from that the next part of comrade wojteks biography/legacy is in the making!

Do you take everything you read to be gospel Goofy?
Things are rarely that clear cut and even Historians can make mistakes and disagree with versions of events.
I certainly wouldn't believe everything I read.
I don't know enough about Jaruzelski to make much comment, but judging from the threads it appears he was both revered and reviled in equal doses.

I do believe written word but not ones written by IPN. Most of the historians were proven to be at least selective in their work.

Some wise words of history and historians:

The past actually happened. History is what someone took the time to write down.

Writing history is like drinking an ocean and pis-sing a cupful.

Life is not simple, and therefore history, which is past life, is not simple.

Any fool can make history, but it takes a genius to write it.

God alone knows the future, but only a historian can alter the past.

After many years in the service of the WSI, Wojtus got his new place new rank as a major... he was given many medals by the Polsih "President" - dictator Boleslaw Bierut .. a smaller yet still dangerous bandit like Stalin.

.. as I lack time for today.. I shall write the story of Wojciech Jaruzelski's viscious antisemitism tomorrow.
See you guys!

The New York Times

JARUZELSKI IS SAID TO BAN ANTI-SEMITIC BROADCASTS[/url]
nytimes.com/1982/01/01/world/jaruzelski-is-said-to-ban-anti-semitic-broadcasts.html
By BERNARD D. NOSSITER
Published: January 1, 1982

I shall present my sources later extracts later.

This one is definitely worth reading (unfortunately, the article is in Polish only).

Professor Jerzy Eisler is a renown historian known for his very balanced views on the most recent history of Poland. The three points he discusses in the article are:

- Jaruzelski's alleged antisemitic actions in 1967-68;
- his taking part in the massacre of workers in 1970;
- introducing martial law in 1981.

On the latter point:
- Could the Russians have moved in?
- We are in the area of speculation here. Every one believes what they want to believe in. A more important question for me is: To whose advantage had the martial law been declared? We may look at it in this way: this was to the advantage of the Kremlin as communist order was restored in Warsaw without loosing a single drop of Russian blood and spending a single rouble on it. General Jaruzelski was much celebrated thereafter in Moscow ...

More unfortunately, the text on Wyborcza is subscriber only. Does anybody happen to know of a site which has a version of the article which is free to all?


The only reason they would celebrate that would be if they thought that without him they would have needed to spill Russian blood and spend lots of roubles, which would mean that they did plan to invade if the General hadn't acted. Not that that that is news.

There is a long (102 pages, plus 30 pages of intro and documents) but absolutely brilliant article titled "Jaruzelski, the Soviet Union, and the Imposition of Martial Law in Poland: New Light on the Mystery of December 1981" here: wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/CWIHPBulletin11_p1.pdf

I haven't finished it yet but so far it is superb.


Frankly it was in almost everybody's (short-term) interests; without it the death toll would probably have stretched into the tens of thousands.


That's not true. Almost all of the IPN stuff about WWII events and events shortly after the war is top notch. The problem comes with their more contemporary work (e.g. the fact that according to their files nobody in the secret police ever even wondered if Jarek Kaczynski might be gay).

Find the link in my previous post: Generał Jaruzelski na ogół nie protestował.