SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1589
17 Oct 2010 / #61
I mean, for real, what's great about all these achievements if people don't feel any positive outcome of it?
Well, that's true. Probably the gap between poor and rich has grown.
Why is Poland developing so slowly or in the wrong direction? Who is responsible ?
Well, that's true. Probably the gap between poor and rich has grown.
this thread has been tainted and i would be glad to read the true story good or bad if only i had some refrences. and by the way the partition stuff happened in the 18th century- norman davies god's playground.
I mean, working people will always be the last group to recieve the benefits, and when they do, it's going to be the minimum
Absolutely right. It sounds kinda tough but following your correct statement, Poles will have to wait quite a while until they'll feel anything at all. I purposely don't put any numbers here because it would probably sound very discouraging for Poles.
Marek11111 9 | 807
17 Oct 2010 / #64
Why Poland is developing so slow or in a wrong direction? Who is responsible ?
Let talk about it as you may know or do not know Poland was occupied by Germans, Russians, Austrians for 123 years starting 1795
My question to you is do you think the foreign power invested any dime in Poland?
The ww1 started and majority of fighting between Germany, Austrians and Russia took place in Poland, devastating country from their recourses.
Poland got independence in 1918 for 21 years then in 1939 ww2 again Poland is devastated industries are bomb and moved.
In 1945 Poland was given to Soviets, Poland was occupied by foreign power Soviets.
Do you think soviets help Poland to developed or just used Poland.
In 1989 Poland got their independence, so for 21 years now Poland is rebuilding again and it is too slow for you or you think that is not like other countries comparing to United States or Germany
Or England maybe France, you cannot start to discuss this topic if you do not understand or know Polish history.
Wow, just about anyone but the Poles themselves, right? :-)
Marek, we had a sensible discussion so far, let's keep it that way (please).
Marek, we had a sensible discussion so far, let's keep it that way (please).
Let talk about it as you may know or do not know Poland was occupied by Germans, Russians, Austrians for 123 years starting 1795
My question to you is do you think the foreign power invested any dime in Poland?
The ww1 started and majority of fighting between Germany, Austrians and Russia took place in Poland, devastating country from their recourses.
Poland got independence in 1918 for 21 years then in 1939 ww2 again Poland is devastated industries are bomb and moved.
In 1945 Poland was given to Soviets, Poland was occupied by foreign power Soviets.
Do you think soviets help Poland to developed or just used Poland.
In 1989 Poland got their independence, so for 21 years now Poland is rebuilding again and it is too slow for you or you think that is not like other countries comparing to United States or Germany
Or England maybe France, you cannot start to discuss this topic if you do not understand or know Polish history.
this thread has been tainted and i would be glad to read the true story good or bad if only i had some refrences
The thread is for people familiar with Poland, not for tourists !
1. Polish economy needs a lot of money from EU.
2. Salaries don't increase as much as the cost of living do.
2. Salaries don't increase as much as the cost of living do.
There is no incentive from the government to increase salaries. Small increases will be swallowed by taxes, and large increases will make the cost of labor uncompetitive. Employing people in Poland is expensive. Until the government fixes that, wages will remain low.
In 1945 Poland was given to Soviets, Poland was occupied by foreign power Soviets.
Do you think soviets help Poland to developed or just used Poland.
Do you think soviets help Poland to developed or just used Poland.
It's pretend time?
you cannot start to discuss this topic if you do not understand or know Polish history.
How do you determine that I don't know it?
Besides, the topic is really about the recent events in Poland (let's say since 1989) even though I agree with you that the further history of Poland also plays a role in the way Poles approach certain things today. For example, what's really obvious, you guys are very pessimistic due to the negative events in your history in the past centuries and this is something you definitely have to work on because it will be hard for you to move forward if you don't.
and it is too slow for you
It's not too slow for me, it's too slow for the most of you guys.
so for 21 years now Poland is rebuilding again and it is too slow for you
yeah ! problem????
There is no incentive from the government to increase salaries. Small increases will be swallowed by taxes, and large increases will make the cost of labor uncompetitive. Employing people in Poland is expensive. Until the government fixes that, wages will remain low.
And there is a importers lobby - to keep high value of zloty !
zloty should be about 10 - 11 zl for 1 $, overvalued and paying for it are people in Poland !
i would be glad to read the true story good or bad if only i had some refrences.
Poland has pursued a policy of economic liberalization since 1990 and today stands out as a success story among transition economies.
Before 2009, GDP had grown about 5% annually, based on rising private consumption, a jump in corporate investment, and EU funds inflows.
GDP per capita is still much below the EU average, but is similar to that of the three Baltic states. Since 2004, EU membership and access to EU structural funds have provided a major boost to the economy.
Unemployment fell rapidly to 6.4% in October 2008, climbed back to 8.9% by January 2010, but remains below the EU average.
Before 2009, GDP had grown about 5% annually, based on rising private consumption, a jump in corporate investment, and EU funds inflows.
GDP per capita is still much below the EU average, but is similar to that of the three Baltic states. Since 2004, EU membership and access to EU structural funds have provided a major boost to the economy.
Unemployment fell rapidly to 6.4% in October 2008, climbed back to 8.9% by January 2010, but remains below the EU average.
cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pl.html
With stability restored, Poland was able to offer its well-educated, low-wage workforce, its position in Europe's center, and its tariff-free access to European Union (EU) markets to attract foreign investment--all with the goal of bringing Polish incomes up to the levels of those in the U.S. and Western Europe.
One generation later, the reforms since 1989 have brought success and new challenges.
Poland joined the EU in 2004. Its per capita economic growth rate has outpaced those of the U.S. and of its EU partners.
Polish incomes have risen to 37% of U.S. incomes (up from 29% in 1997)
One generation later, the reforms since 1989 have brought success and new challenges.
Poland joined the EU in 2004. Its per capita economic growth rate has outpaced those of the U.S. and of its EU partners.
Polish incomes have risen to 37% of U.S. incomes (up from 29% in 1997)
state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2875.htm#econ
Marek11111 9 | 807
17 Oct 2010 / #70
How long it took Germans to rebuild with a Marshal plan?
Oh no we looking at today events with historical prospective as you may know today events form future trends so we know what could happen.
Poland will move forward as long as you will keep your hands of her. ( you are foreign powers )
For example, what's really obvious, you guys are very pessimistic due to the negative events in your history in the past centuries and this is something you definitely have to work on because it will be hard for you to move forward if you don't.
Oh no we looking at today events with historical prospective as you may know today events form future trends so we know what could happen.
Poland will move forward as long as you will keep your hands of her. ( you are foreign powers )
Common ! Come from USA and see for yourself !
give it a try !
give it a try !
Poland will move forward as long as you will keep your hands of her.
Well, I don't see any threats for Poland nowadays. Unless your eastern, more or less "neighbors" (Iran etc.) will decide to surprise you, I wouldn't worry about the western Europe and definitely not the US either.
It is Slavic mentality.Some things grow differently than in the west.
There is no incentive from the government to increase salaries. Small increases will be swallowed by taxes, and large increases will make the cost of labor uncompetitive. Employing people in Poland is expensive. Until the government fixes that, wages will remain low.( ?
It means that for every zloty an employer pays an employee, they also pay one to the government.
PS, Paiz is really proud of low wages.
That's why people wangle things here. Mnóstwo (sporo) są kombinatorze :) It is a way of life for some and I've experienced it first-hand on many occasions. I'm not going to elaborate on that. The problem is that they have to use their 'spryt' (cunning) in order to mask it from the tax office. I'm no different and again I'll say no more on the matter.
thanks! sean bm.
delphiandomine 86 | 17823
17 Oct 2010 / #77
The government, however, has moved slowly on major reforms.
And this is solely because of the hysterical "Solidarity" types who threaten hunger strikes and who riot every time any sort of reforms are promised.
I'd say it's almost certain that a PO win in the next election will mean huge reforms, especially in regards to pensions. They aren't going to risk it now, but with themselves (and Komorowski) comfortably in power for 4 years, they'll have the mandate to finally put a stop to those hideously large pensions that are being paid to former State employees.
Well, you make me laugh tiger!Who are you for real, not Scottish for sure !
No problem.
Poland is a poor country but it has improved a great deal in the last decade.
Another few things that should be noted are:
- 2012 Poland and ukrain will be holding the European Cup
- Poland manages to use 95% out of EUR 67.3 billion of funds available in the years 2007-13.
- The Polish Zloty dropped 30%, this heightened internal consumption, lessened imports and increased exports. (No link...)
Of course these are all very positive things, the truth is Poland is still a poor country.
On a personal note, I think most Poles are educated, have a good work ethic and want to improve things. All it needs are the right circumstances and time.
One of the major problems here are the prices for imported goods, they are the same price as everywhere else in Europe but as stated the wages are low.
That's what Polish people are telling me.
And links in to what Convex is saying about tax...
Radio Maria is going o go in to over dirve ;D
Poland is a poor country but it has improved a great deal in the last decade.
Another few things that should be noted are:
- 2012 Poland and ukrain will be holding the European Cup
- Poland manages to use 95% out of EUR 67.3 billion of funds available in the years 2007-13.
- The Polish Zloty dropped 30%, this heightened internal consumption, lessened imports and increased exports. (No link...)
Of course these are all very positive things, the truth is Poland is still a poor country.
On a personal note, I think most Poles are educated, have a good work ethic and want to improve things. All it needs are the right circumstances and time.
One of the major problems here are the prices for imported goods, they are the same price as everywhere else in Europe but as stated the wages are low.
put a stop to those hideously large pensions that are being paid to former State employees.
That's what Polish people are telling me.
And links in to what Convex is saying about tax...
Radio Maria is going o go in to over dirve ;D
The Polish Zloty dropped 30%, this heightened internal consumption, lessened imports and increased exports. (No link...)
The zloty is at exactly at the same point against the euro as it was at 10 years ago :)
Spoil sport ;p
Edit*
Another couple things of note are:
!) Poland "B" is the Eastern side of Poland, which was under Russia during the partition. It has very little infrastructure. It gets 30% more of the E.U. finds because it lags behind so much.
See map here upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/NowaMapaAutostradyStan.svg
Green - line existing
Red - line under construction
dotted - planned
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roads_and_expressways_in_Poland
Labour is cheaper there than it is anywhere else in Poland. I am also led to believe that of the 2 million people who have left Poland since 2004 (E.U. freedom of movement) most come from there.
Personally I believe this is a good place to invest, due to the infrastructure that will be and the even cheaper labour.
2) Although Poland has a population of about 38 million, they are still mostly rural inhabitants.
Only about 1.7 million people live in the capital Warsaw. The farms tend to be very very small and inefficient and therefore ineffective.
People are moving in to the cities.
Edit*
Another couple things of note are:
!) Poland "B" is the Eastern side of Poland, which was under Russia during the partition. It has very little infrastructure. It gets 30% more of the E.U. finds because it lags behind so much.
See map here upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/NowaMapaAutostradyStan.svg
Green - line existing
Red - line under construction
dotted - planned
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roads_and_expressways_in_Poland
Labour is cheaper there than it is anywhere else in Poland. I am also led to believe that of the 2 million people who have left Poland since 2004 (E.U. freedom of movement) most come from there.
Personally I believe this is a good place to invest, due to the infrastructure that will be and the even cheaper labour.
2) Although Poland has a population of about 38 million, they are still mostly rural inhabitants.
Only about 1.7 million people live in the capital Warsaw. The farms tend to be very very small and inefficient and therefore ineffective.
People are moving in to the cities.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 503
18 Oct 2010 / #82
The thread is for people familiar with Poland, not for tourists !
tourists have a different perspective.
delphiandomine 86 | 17823
18 Oct 2010 / #83
Well, you make me laugh tiger!Who are you for real, not Scottish for sure!
Ah, someone is worried that the next PO government will force him back to work instead of letting him sit at home on "renta".
That's what Polish people are telling me.
Anyone who isn't socialist can see the huge problem in Poland - the country is in dire need of a major pension reform. Yes, it'll be painful, yes, it's going to hurt all those ex Party members who were in the top jobs - but it's going to happen.
I don't see why this generation should be paying for members of the PZPR. In fact, I'd go one further and only allocate a nominal amount to the money paid in before 1989. It wasn't real money - so why should I pay real money to it?
Personally I believe this is a good place to invest, due to the infrastructure that will be and the even cheaper labour.
Do you mean, buy up the small inefficient farms and make one big one?
That's what happened in UK a few years ago.
The situation with farms in Poland is an overhang from communism. Individual farmers weren't allowed to expand and had less access to loans, credit etc than communal farms. The government compulsory purchase meant that there was no necessity for 'business' farming.
The lack of competition and chance to develop has blighted the agricultural sector.
Mind you, the EEC (EU) also did a fair bit of damage to western farmers in 1970's and 1980's, I believe.
The situation with farms in Poland is an overhang from communism. Individual farmers weren't allowed to expand and had less access to loans, credit etc than communal farms. The government compulsory purchase meant that there was no necessity for 'business' farming.
The lack of competition and chance to develop has blighted the agricultural sector.
Mind you, the EEC (EU) also did a fair bit of damage to western farmers in 1970's and 1980's, I believe.
Well with the future influx of African/Chines agricultural produce,i don't think a newly enlarged farm even in Poland B could compete.
Do you mean, buy up the small inefficient farms and make one big one?
No, I personally think manufacturing/factories is better.
There are too many farms in Poland as it is, it's like Ireland was.
Here are a highly educated workforce, so I would think for example, pharmaceuticals would be a good option.
With the new motorway (E.U. funds) the long distance trucks can deliver raw materials and take away finished products.
Poland being in the centre of Europe is in a perfect place to export goods.
Well with the future influx of African/Chines agricultural produce,i don't think a newly enlarged farm even in Poland B could compete.
The same can be said for non-technical cheap goods like cds or shoelaces.
That is why I think specializations would be best in Poland "B".
Pity they don't have Ireland's lower corporate tax here :)
That is why I think specializations would be best in Poland "B".
The Chinese will specialise too, and they are much more competitive than any EU country could ever be(even with a Thatcher like leader). Once the chinese workers demands pay rise they get jailed or get lost in the forest; wet dream for the keep things competitive mentality.
The Chinese will specialise too,
I don't think they have a skilled enough workforce, it is more mundane factory work.
Slave labour can't produce the high skills that are necessary to perform specialized work.
Of course there are such skilled workers in China but most are not.
What what do you suggest? Poland becomes part of China?
33 (1) Poland 0.952
97 (2) China 0.851
Education Index
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index
What what do you suggest? Poland becomes part of China?
Is that not a general fear for all EU countries, that they will be undermined and coerced by the world of powerful undemocratic governments.