Why is Poland developing so slowly or in the wrong direction? Who is responsible ?

I found what I was looking for:

And remember this is not about the standard of third level education but just about the amounts of people with a third level education in Poland and China:

China: In 2002, Total graduate student enrolment was 501,000.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education_in_China#Present_day

Poland: As of 2001 there were 1,224,600 students[1] enrolled in the publicly funded universities and colleges. In the private universities and colleges there were 519,100 students. Total = 1743700 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education_in_Poland#The_present_time


What are you talking about?

I don't know of anyone who is afraid of being invaded by China.

They are already doing pretty advanced work. Everyone likes to think of China as a nation of factories producing goods designed in Europe, Japan, and the US. The truth is, they're developing quite a bit in house now, and are coming up incredibly fast in some sectors.

Look at companies like Huawei, they're the second biggest name in telecoms, and 90% of their R&D happens in China.

PetroChina is primarily staffed with Chinese geologists and engineers.

They are producing some amazing economists and financial managers, there are some brilliant minds working at ICBC and BOC...

Lots of software is produced in China now.

Quite a bit of Pharma coming out of China as well.

Home grown high speed trains, about to start building commercial jets, have been building their own military equipment for some time, have been launching (and shooting down) satellites for years...

I think they're pretty happy with the "factories that make stuffed animals" view that quite a few people in the world have of them.

Just to punch numbers, they seem to have a low rate of third level education. (see above)
Especially when compared to their populations.

At the same time, you could say that Poland is lagging behind in actually productivity of it's post graduate students. It's important to remember that in China you don't need 8 years of post secondary education to work as an electrical engineer. Same goes for software engineer, aeronautical engineer, chemist, biologist... Much more is done through trade schools and training programs on the job. The students that China does produce are top flight, because there is so much competition. In Poland, education is diluted to a point where universities might as well be high schools.

Some interesting bits from the article:


In three years, the number of higher education institutes more than doubled.

It should be noted, for comparisons, that you're comparing the number of graduate students in China, 500k to the total number of post secondary students in Poland 1.7m. If you wanted to compare apples to apples, the article says that 15m Chinese students are currently enrolled in post secondary schools.

I missed that...

So do you share Milky's view that we are doomed because China will undercut anything we attempt to do?

Not at all, wages are rising in China faster than anywhere else on earth. The Chinese will soon want to consume instead of loan out money for foreign consumption of their labor. It's already beginning to happen.

Just something I came across recently on this China/Poland/infrastructure issue


China's controversial Polish contract


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8259153.stm]

It must be added that the majority of contracts have gone to European companies.

OK guys, enough arguing, I take the full responsibility for "Why is Poland developing so slowly or in the wrong direction? Who is responsible ?" ;-)

Have a great day.

They are held to the same labor constraints as local companies. I have my beliefs that it is being done for a reason, maybe to remind European construction companies that they can't constantly fleece the state.

60% below the the guide price.
I think a bit of blind eye, human trafficking i.e. slavery is involved.


Why would China care about European construction companies "fleecing' European state?
Remember the "Guide price" is set by the state not the construction companies.

The Polish even admit in several articles that the Chinese must be paying very very little.

Guesswho, you're a bad bad man! :)

Right, and apparently the government was doing a bit of lobbying to get those companies to bid...


Pay very little, low quality work, will not get any more contracts. The Chinese are selling quality now as well.

I think regarding the pay, it will probably be more along the lines of using cheaper equipment, not issuing brand new trucks to everyone, and actually planning things out and carrying them through. Their projects are usually incredibly structured.

Anyway, seeing as this is one of the first forays into Europe, I think they are low balling themselves and won't make the same mistake next time.

Time to learn Mandarin?

So I like Chinese.
youtube.com/watch?v=04QoA44c23A

I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I'll change my gender for you ;-)

Naw, English will due in this life time.

But I mean, all this talk about Chinese taking over...one out of every five people on the face of the planet is Chinese. They're starting to punch their weight, but won't catch up for another 100 years.

There is a point here to be made about Poland only starting to catch up with today's international language i.e. English.
The lack of English speakers here has held Poland back.

I am not saying this because I am an English speaker (before anyone jumps on me).
English is, today, the business language of the world. (French was, Mandarin probably will be)

Come on Seanus, get them going :)

I do have mixed feelings about the global village homogenisation.


AH well in that case... That explains it! :p

It really does, lol

What is the correct direction of the development then? And how it is different from the current one?

Well this one is close to home for me....
globeboss.com/money/china-buying-up-european-assets
Some people believe the Celtic Tiger was basically the Americans using Ireland as a gate-way into Europe,and then left us high and dry,now the Chinese(think its their turn) look like they want to take advantage of a bad situation:Ireland-Greece. Which one is desperate enough to accept our injustice!

Is it good to make deals with dictatorships? Will they recognize EU law and give the finger to it back home?
Sort of like, letting the US army land in Shannon, even though it may not be morally right, BUT it makes short-term economic sense ( i hear they are moving from Shannon to Germany now anyway)

I think countries need to keep out the Pirates.

Sounds like a good deal.


What's wrong with this, Milky?

I remember Mary Robinson, when she was United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights spoke out against doing business with China on humanitarian grounds. Is that what you mean?

It's interesting that we hear so much about Chinese human rights violations. Considering all the terrible stuff that Americans and Europeans have been doing, it seems a bit of the pot screaming at the kettle.

On a side note, get ready to see the Dollar and the Renminbi plunge like a rock. One of the two economies will be able to recover...

I thought China owned the States debt?


Mostly to Japan and China.

true
Its a bit of a paradox really.

But Milky, you cannot impose your own ways on the other cultures. I would be /see and behold/ "rasism". Banish the thought.

PS. Am I politically correct enough?

China is the largest holder of US debt, they hold 5% of the total, Japan owns about the same...but, the US owns quite a bit of Japanese debt as well...and no Chinese debt.

Anyway, the drop is going to be because the US still believes that the Yuan is undervalued...so the US will keep devaluing its currency....ah race to the bottom where no one wins. The US isn't willing to tell Americans that they are spending too much and it's not sustainable.

No f0king idea what you're talking about?????
But the law of the land is the law of the land.

"the law of the land is the law of the land"??
In turn, I have no fooking idea what YOU do mean...
Seems vaguely king Arthur thing... Something Merlin could say... King is the land and land is the king... Makes about as much sense.

Always backwards my friend, always backwards ;-)

Definition :




Dream on or keep lying !


there a many ideas what to do, question is why nothing has been done ?

So you think Poland can afford all these huge pensions paid out to ex-Party, ex-Solidarity members? You think Poland can continue to keep allowing ballet dancers to retire at the age of 40? dream on....


Because the Polish people want it all, now. They aren't willing to tolerate a few years of pain for the greater good - and there is a rather large block of selfish individuals that will cause mayhem if their cushy living standards are threatened.

Roll on 2011, a PO-Palikot majority in the Sejm, a PO President and PO majority in the Senat and a vast axe being taken to many of these benefits.

How so? Comeon, give us a pie chart of government expenses...