Why is Poland developing so slowly or in the wrong direction? Who is responsible ?

I really don't think Poland is developing slowly either. Geez, entrenched attitudes under 43 years of communism are hard to change. Poland's achilles heel is its pessimism but, thankfully, optimism is on the rise amongst some Poles. The troubles of other economies may distort Poland's true development rate but there is potential here to go onwards and upwards.

I hope Poland will not be a slave of the free market and at least put a permanent halt at some stage soon to the selling off of the Family Silver.

I have some comments on the OP, but I don't have the time now. I would like to address the comment above quickly. The polite and familiar form is common to many languages, French, German, Polish, etc. English speakers, who do not know such languages, are puzzled at first just as for example Poles who haven't studied English think that in English speaking countries all people are buddies and are on familiar terms. Just in case that is not what you mean, let me give you a different example. In France, you might greet a person "Bon jour," but a cultured French person will greet "Bon jour, Monsieur/Madam." Not that I'm saying you are not cultured, but you might not understand the difference.

Oh yes it is. Many of the unemployable idiots went West - and the economy is better as a result, because we don't have to fund them.

Anyway, Poland seems to be developing fine. The only people that think it's developing in the wrong direction are the ones who think that the State should look after them because they're too lazy to do something about it.


Why? None of the parties support such a move. Even PiS, for all the criticism of their socialist policies are much more inclined to financially support the companies as opposed to keeping them in public hands.

Are you seriously saying that the relatively slow progress in Poland is our fault? lol


of course there's a lot of potential but it doesn't mean that it's being used like it could be used to speed up the progress.

Poland in my opinion is not getting worse, not if you think in the terms of living standard.
There no place here for long and elaborated essays, in short - Poland is is getting worse for some and getting better for some!
In a way is not really getting better or worse but changing! Those changes are not necessarily bad from the casual look of things, although after close examinations I must conclude that a poisonous tree can only bring poisonous fruits.


Whoosh!
Explain !


Do you really believe that some theoretical stuff from uni make that much of the difference ?


Wrong on both counts!


Comparing, progress, effectiveness of government also by comparing others country's like Spain, Greece which were a way behind Poland before WWII, also by the thingy that Poland before WWII were leading country in a innovation and modern technology developments - and now is only as good as a receiving secondary market !


depends what you have in mind genius


Do you know what GDP is ? or you are just fascinated by a numbers that grows?


Who is running the show ?

Agree again with you iron :-) and this is exactly the difference in our education systems, less general knowledge but a well directed knowledge which helps later on to make a difference where it's needed.

Is it? (Which wrong direction?)


Well, if I had to take my best uneducated guess, I'd wager that the Polish themselves are probably responsible for whatever happens in Poland.

:)

Well, the problem is that if you grow before you have reached a certain stage of development it causes problems. I mean, look at all the deprived villages in some areas of Poland which still don't have running water, sewage systems etc and then ask if the country really needs to grow more before it sorts out these problems.

Part of the problem may be the use of neo-classical economics after 1989 who decided on using a trickle-down effect, which never got part of the way, and the scrapping of much govt support to many industries (such as compulsory purchase of produce). The change was too quick and industries like agriculture were not developed enough to take the change.

I mean, when you have a whole industry, both individual farmers and communal farms suddenly going from a compulsory purchase system to darwinian survival economics, how are they supposed to flourish? A long term re-education of farmers would have been a more productive idea, better financial aid to help development etc.

Poland could be at the forefront of organic farming and supply rather than having thousands of crumbling farms, falling rural populations and land being sold off to urban property developers.

Guess where a lot of those economists came from...

The Russians did it....


I would much rather live in a poorer Europe than a slightly richer one with so many innocent perished. Would you give up your life so others could have a better material existence?

Well, I kinda agree with you here. So many years under the Russian occupation definitely messed up the positive energy of many Poles.

There is absolutely no doubt about that. 43 years under communism is only part of the story. Poland has been under Russian oppression in one form or another since early in the 16th century. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth wanted to pursue a Western model but the Russians wouldn't allow it. When you have people blocking you, that's automatically unfair. Besides, the EU is full of arrogant players that don't want to see Poland as a leading force. Like it or not, it is an emerging entity :) :)

Isn't there a world crises and recession in every other country in the E.U.

Nobody can develop quickly in this climate.

I personally don't see Poland as a leading force in the EU yet whatsoever. I also wouldn't put it necessarily as "arrogant" players. I think it's more like a lack of faith in Poland as one of the leading forces due to the historical past of Poland.

Poland is known for its good soldiers and pretty women (which that is obviously a matter of taste) but not for its politics, economy and leadership qualities and that is kinda bone breaker here.


true but Poland wasn't really progressing fast before either and that's what iron meant (I guess)

Why Poland is developing so slow or in a wrong direction? Who is responsible ?

FDR, Winston Churchill, Joe Stalin and God

Wow, just about anyone but the Poles themselves, right? :-)

Marek, we had a sensible discussion so far, let's keep it that way (please).

I beg to differ, Poland was shooting up the ranks before the recession.

With a big internal market, retaliative cheap labour meant lots of exports, entrance into the E.U. meant billions of Euros being pumped in to improve infrastructure, millions of Poles working abroad sending their money back.

As is known, Poland is the only country in the E.U. to have not been in recession so far and the future does not look too bad either. It has slowed down of course but nothing like what has and is happening in other E.U. countries.

I think one of the things holding Poland back is the bureaucracy, which certainly has been changing over the past few years to make it easier here. There needs to be more documentation in other languages to make it easier to navigate, this goes for internet banking too etc...

Well, ask Polish people how much impact the ranks have or had on their daily lives and this is probably the most important thing to Polish people.

I fully agree with you when it comes to the statistics, everything looks great on paper but as long as Poles don't feel it, it's all rather a "breadless art".

This is a valid point. I mean, how was EU supposed to have confidence in Poland when the former government was rabidly anti-EU and formed a coalition with other rabidly anti-EU groups. Poland was seen as a trouble-maker within EU when the twins were at the top.

The problem of remaning dregs of post-socialist administration were also a problem. Just a few years ago it took over a month for a company to be able to register and start up trading, compared to a 15 minute phone call in Scotland. I remember being refused credit by GE MOneybank because i didn't have a PESEL on my id card, despite having my own firm and having paid taxes in Poland for a couple of years (and I did have a PESEL, it just wasn't on my card). Such beaureacracy scared away quite a few foreign investors for a number of years.

They don't feel the recession because there is none.

I also think it is difficult to see change when you are living in it, now Poland is a different animal than the Poland I saw first 9 years ago.


Agreed.

The number of new houses being built and new cars on the new roads suggest you are right.

I wasn't talking about the recession Sean, I was talking about the influence of the "positive statistics" on the economical situation of an average Pole.

Do you not think that there has been a positive difference to the average Pole over the past 6 years?

I know what you mean by fluffing the numbers but I think things have changed for the better over the past decade, although there has been a slow down due to other countries being in a recession.


The first thing I noticed when I moved back to Poland (I had been away for 5 years living in other E.U. countries) was that people were insulating their houses and putting in new PVC windows everywhere. There was a vast noticeable difference and that's just the basics.

I'm most likely not the right person to answer this question but alone creating this thread, iron kinda did. All I can tell you is that most of my friends in Poland are not very satisfied with the changes in Poland. All I hear is,"they keep talking about our great economy but we still make the same money" etc.

So much cr*p in one thread.

Poland has one of the fastest growing BNP in the EU.

There are some structural problems in the economy. But Greece, Portugal, England etc. have bigger problems.

i tend to agree with your friends.

Is it crap to say that Polish people don't feel much of this "fastest growing BNP in the EU"?


I mean, for real, what's great about all these achievements if people don't feel any positive outcome of it? It's very sad but true.

as a comment a story:
While in Greece due to government's cuts of the wages and such, people were demonstrating and putting ablaze buses and such. In Poland a many said or/and thought - fukk they are demonstrating because they'll have almost the same as most of Poles have for all their life...


thats all fragmentary and temporary measures and means, where is a plan, government is employing a new bureaucrats, they spent tax money on the war, flashy displays, phew ! they cannot even bother to build a proper motorways, or oversee quality of new investment in infrastructure, trains - in mess due to freaky organization - not because Poles don't know how - but because is the way to make a money for few with connections !

The 2 biggest structural problems are:

1. Polish economy needs a lot of money from EU.
2. Salaries don't increase as much as the cost of living do.

I have never heard anyone here say that it's worse now than 10 years ago. I think more and more Poles start to believe in a good future.

In a sense it is, but at the same time it really isn't. (I agree with your friends.) They're right of course, but the fact remains that it works the exact same way in every other country on this globe. I mean, working people will always be the last group to recieve the benefits, and when they do, it's going to be the minimum. If you disagree with that, you could try studying, come up with a brilliant idea, or simply turn rogue. (Rock 'n Roll!) Most politicians won't do jack for you except for promising you a lot of sunshine tomorrow, although it certainly would be nice if they would prove me wrong some day. But yeah, it'll always stay that way, atleast to some extent, regardless of the economical conjuncture.

;)