Demonstrations in Poland in defence of democracy.

Let me guess: the IPN can now find documents to prove that estimate, right? And the remaining 20% of top fortunes belong to PIS lovers and the IPN can't find any documents at all about them, right?

Still, at least not all former SB collaborators have done well under democracy, some of them are so hard up they can't even afford to maintain the properties they stole from Poland.


Why would you think a PIS supporter would care at all what the constitution says? The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski clearly doesn't care what the constitution says.

that would explain why those who... failed to thrive after 1989 were so bitter....

And some rendering clandestine services for the undergorund CPGB evade that issue like the plague and refuse to explain their frequent visits to Poland B to non-digitally liase near the BY border.


Who ever said a few of Soros' Petrudollars cannot also sway US politicians. But fortunartely not all of them. Asked by Rzeczpospolita whether US military bases are likely to be established in Poland despite mounting reservations of the Department of State concerning the respect for democratic principles, Rudy Giuliani said: "Even if the dispute is not resolved soon, Poland will remain a very close ally and friend of the United States. It is for you to decide how to interpret your democracy; we have nothing to do with it. He added: "Likewise, it is not for you to evaluate the manner in which we interpret democracy in the United States".

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/245301,It-is-for-Poles-to-decide-how-to-interpret-their-Constitution-Rudolph-Giuliani#sthash.PdhS8vFF.dpufnas

Well, well, well.

The news coming through now is that the courts are interpreting the TK's decision as being legally binding, even without the formal publication of the ruling by the Constitutional Tribunal. In this case, it means that the PiS law on the Constitutional Tribunal has been thrown out - which means that the TK will continue to rule according to the old rules.

To explain it in plain English - this means that any laws declared unconstitutional by the Constitutional Tribunal will not be recognised by the courts in Poland. The government can attempt to bring prosecutions, but these prosecutions will fail if they are under measures declared unconstitutional by the Constitutional Tribunal.

Either way, it now means that the courts are opposed to the government. Works for me, and shows how badly thought out this plan of PiS was.

Old commie Rzepliński, old rules, old SB-rooted establishment. It all figures!

Do we really have to explain how Rzepliński was thrown out of the PZPR for siding with Solidarność, while Kaczyński's henchman Piotorwicz was awarded a special prize by the Party for his work as a public prosecutor during martial law?

Either way, if PiS don't back down now, we're going to see the situation where the government will find their laws to be unenforceable.

During 8 years in power the PO/PSL government failed to heed nearly 50 TK rulings. And what happened? Nothing? No KOD marches, no hysterical headlines in the Michnik rag, no snitching to the EU, no Delph fuming and ranting 24/7. One wonders why that is? And why those who had effectviely ignored those TK rulings that didn't suit them have suddenly become "holier than thou" TK defenders. Isn't that called hypocrisy?

All it would take is a serious legal challenge. And it isn't as if they have much of a support base.

Maybe not much but many times more than any other single grouping. It is the KOD gang whose noise, commotion and publicity-seeking has little suppprt outside their own mutual adoration society and the foreign bodies to whom they have snitched. PiS remains in the 37-40% range in terms of support whilst their vociferous detractors are in their mid-teens. The sustained rumpus is only turning Poles off. When TK-related reports appear on the evening news, mamy average Poles say "Not that stuff again!" and leave the room to have a smoke on the balcony or fix themselves a tea or snack.

More lies from Polonius.

The average from the last month -

PiS - 32.6%
Nowoczesna - 19.3%
PO -15.6%

PiS are behind the combined opposition.

The average of what?


But the TK must abide by existing, binding law before it can declare anything unconstitutional. Otherwise the declaration is illegal. And the latest ruling was indeed illegal, hence the government is under no obligation to print illict rulings.

You are very simply lying; please stop. The constitution makes this point crystal clear. The reason it makes this point so clear is that otherwise a government could pass a law saying that before TK judges can issue any ruling they must shoot themselves in the head with a .50 caliber pistol. Surely nobody can be so blinded by their love of PIS to not see this!

He is not, if they want rule to be binding they need to precede in accordance to the rules of the new bill. They cannot a priory disagreed them as not binding - in that 'K' is crystal clear.

You haven't read the Constitution, have you?


The Constitution is higher than law passed by the Sejm. It's a basic, fundamental part of law.

Then again, what can one expect from a party where the leader signed up to become a public prosecutor in the PZPR?

But it's a moot point. The courts regard the TK ruling as being effective, hence the TK continues to operate under the rules that they recognise.

Lying and twisting facts are a hallmark of the appalling Kaczynski clique, just as they are for Orban and others of their ilk. The rabid misleading propaganda is a hallmark of the totalitarian regimes that preceded them before 1990 and the totalitarian regimes that they want to impose. And largely the propagandists are the same people..

Hence the Polish pro-democracy rallies and their equivalent in Hungary.

*disregard


You haven't got a clue have you? They need to abide by the legal frame regulated by the Parliament otherwise all their 'rulings' are null and void - that is crystal clear.

In fact they need to abide by the constitution and defend it against politicians; that is the reason the Constitutional Tribunal exists.

The Constitution is crystal clear that they are subject only to the Constitution, hence why the courts are now deciding that they will enforce the TK's ruling.


Indeed. It didn't escape my attention that the two recently appointed PiS judges also signed the recent ruling.

Either way, it's all pretty much irrelevant. The courts will treat the ruling as being in force, hence if it's published or not is really quite irrelevant.

Do the armed forces, government employees, Police etc swear an oath to protect the constitution?

There is no more totalitarian regime than that of the RT establishment and their self-serving Michnikite pinko propaganda in the service of foreign-interest groups. The KOD marchers and all the Schetyna-style snitchers clearly prove they want to keep it that way. They and they alone as a self-styled "enlightened" elite are entitled to run the show and reap the benefits, All others STAY OUT!

Instead of insulting people, why don't you address the lies you've been caught telling here about what is and is not legal? Perhaps you'd carry to tell us the PIS thoughts on how the TK would rule on a new law saying that before TK judges can issue any ruling they must shoot themselves in the head with a .50 caliber pistol? Your stance is that TK judges must follow all laws passed, isn't it?

Perhaps you could prove those lies instead of making assumptions?


"carry to tell us"? (said by the English teacher)

Of course I can. Just read Po's posts and then read Article 195 of the constitution. He claims one thing, while the constitution says another.

But seeing as you want to jump in to support your fellow PIS lover, perhaps you care to answer the question he has to ignore: what are the PIS thoughts on how the TK would rule on a new law saying that before TK judges can issue any ruling they must shoot themselves in the head with a .50 caliber pistol?

I wonder if you'll answer that question or just resort to yet more off-topic ad hom trolling.

Care to quote ad hom trolling you are referring to?


I have checked Article 195 of the constitution and it does not point out Po's posts to be lies in any sense. Care to explain those lies? or you prefer that we just once again accept the usual thing that you lie about someone lying?

You mean you also are struggling to understand that the Constitutional Tribunal is only subject to the Constitution and not to any lesser law?

Fortunately, the courts in Poland understand the Constitution and have chosen to interpret the TK's ruling as being binding.

Of course:


Now I've answered your question, time for you to answer mine. What are the PIS thoughts on how the TK would rule on a new law saying that before TK judges can issue any ruling they must shoot themselves in the head with a .50 caliber pistol? PIS lovers claim that the TK must respect any law passed by the Sejm, so how would the TK rule on a new law saying that before TK judges can issue any ruling they must shoot themselves in the head with a .50 caliber pistol?

I look forward to yet more of your off-topic ad hom trolling as you refuse to answer that very simple question.

This is not ad hom trolling and you very well know that, I pointed out the grammar mistake that you made. Do you want to lie that this was the correct form?


There is no such a party in Poland like PIS.


So far there was none but I look forward for you to lie about it yet more.

Yawn, more tiresome off-topic trolling from Wulkan, but at least it gives us our answer: even he knows that the TK are not required to follow unconstitutional laws. I wonder when Po is going to admit that too.

A law is unconstitutional not a prirori but only after it has been ofifcially ruled so by the Tribunal functioning in accordance with existing, binding law. If everyone knew ahead of time which is law is constitutional and which is not, there'd be no need to waste taxpayer money on such a costly toga-clad gang. After all, the Supreme Court could easily double as a constitutional court without requiring an extra money-guzzler the likes of the TK.

That's not what the Constitution states. Article 195, paragraph 1 is very clear that the Tribunal is subject only to the Constitution. There is no mention of the Constitutional Tribunal having to obey lesser law. Legal theory in Poland is very clear on this point : the Constitution is higher than law passed by the National Assembly.

The courts also recognise the supremacy of the Constitutional Tribunal.

At the end of the day, any law can be passed. But you need to enforce that law, and it seems that judges have made it crystal clear that they will recognise rulings by the TK regardless of what the government says or claims.