Demonstrations in Poland in defence of democracy.

Maybe not, but those who won out on the roundtable passed their (ill-gotten?) gains and cushy posts on to the next generation, creating post-communist mini-dynasties of the privileged.

The so-called "grass-roots" protest movement mainyl comprises an Obamesque liberal-libertine-leftstream camp allied with the banksters and disentitled nomenklatura. Seems like unlikely bedfellows, but when the "feed trough" is involved, those pushed away from it will seek out seemingly exotic allies. In a word, it's the elites - opportunistic radish communists and KOR-leaning Solidiarity leftists (Michnik & Co) - that struck the roundtable deal (Magdalenka and all that) and lived happily ever after vs those who lost out on the transformation and whose defender are now PiS. The continuing Polish-Polish war began during the Soldiarity "carnival" when the pro-KOR and "true Poles" factions first emerged. The roundtable and June 1989 election temporarily created the illusion of unity in the anti-PZPR camp, but the rifts re-emerged when Wałęsa launched his "war at the top" (worker Soldarity vs KOR and Katolewica). The battle lines got further entrenched in 1992 when Wałęsa realigned himself with Kuroń, Tusk, Kwaśniewski, Pawlak, et al to topple the Olszewski govt and stop the opening of declassified police files which identified him as an SB informer codenamed "Bolek". Today's KOD (Komitet Obrony Demokracji" are mostly middle-aged and elderly, the disentiteld beneficiaries of the roundtable with very few younger folk in their midst. Their opponents call it Komitet Obrony Koryta (Committee in Defense of the Trough).

PiS have been in power for only three months but already have succeeded in eneacitng key legislative measures reforming the Constitutional Court, law enforcement, public media and civil service. The economy is the most difficult to quickly dynamise, but the 500zł per 2nd child and bank and retail chain tax have been enacted and await implementation. We'll just have to wait and see how things turn out.

Every society has some people who are wealthier and more privileged than others. It's part of society and that isn't going to change any time soon. When you relocated from the United States of America to a communist country during the Cold War you probably exepected social and economic egalitarianism however in practice that never happens.

Nor is there the slightest suggestion that the people who attend the Polish pro-democracy rallies are in any way privileged. Not even Kaczynski and his clowns are hysterical enough to suggest that.

The correct prhasing is: They are NO LONGER as priviłeged as they had been under PO, but some survivors are holding on by hook or by crook. People like Żakowski, Olejnik, Miller and Tusk have visibly toned down their PiS-bashing. Just to be on the safe side presumably. One never know what lies ahead, so those with any poltical ambitions prudently tread lightly and try not to overdo things.

But in Poland there's seething hatred towards people who can take care of themselves, and are successful. It's part of the culture. Anyone who's above the crowd needs to be taken down and smeared. It's not just businessmen, but anyone with above average intelligence, creativity, or insight.

@Borsu: be aware that in countries such as Poland, there is a lot of dirty money ;). Very strange, nobody in Poland speaks about their situation prior to 1989. I trust that a lot of people with very good money and well connected these days were big shots prior to 1989 and stole money from the State in order to open businesses, send their kids to higher education and now said kids are the Polish elite.

Personally, I am not impressed by the rich who made their money too quickly and by "all sorts of means" ;).

Intellectual sadism of Schadenfreude? If a fellow-man lacks knowledge, a decent person's reaction is to elighten him, not deride nor derive pleasure therefrom. But then who ever said Delph was a decent person?!

Classic sadism of western people whom I know very well, they will not let you up when you down, they will step on you and press foot further down in sadistic satisfaction and self-fulfillment. It is low, it not knew, it is old age western frame of mind, there is no point for you to explain it to them, they will never understand what you mean. Milosz (the traitor) aligned himself with this mentality when he echoed western ridicule of Polish glorification of those Polish heroes who defended Poland against foreign invasions - he called them dwarfs who make themselves into giants. Such is western compassion. For them helping others is not a virtue, it is the destruction they like. I would not mind to destroy them in return, since they like it so much - sadists are often masochists.

That's certainly the way PiS operate. At town hall level (in those few towns they control, mostly rural) corruption is rife and they tend to assume others are as bad.

Even in cities there are pis supporters living in houses they got in dodgy ways or operating businesses that were handed to them when the state's assets were divvied up.

Hence so many decent people coming out to attend the Polish pro-democracy rallies.

But pro-democracy rallies are minorities of minorities.

That makes no difference - and they are continuing apace.

What ever they like, they mean nothing anyway and now you'll say so why there are counter demonstrations? We don't want to fall in a false sense of security like PO did before both elections so just in case.

The PRL was corrupt to the core -- nothing could be dealt with without greasing the palm, and PO was a hotbed of corruption and scamsterism. Since there are surely more PO backers and ex-PZPR types in KOD than PiS supproters, ergo corruption is KOD's middle name! Supporting KOD means accepting and promoting corruption as a way of life! Like Piłsudski's Sanacja, the PiS clean-up campaign will sweep all the crud away!

Compared to PiS, they were angels.


Given that they are deeply corrupt themselves at every level and every project they have attempted has been a total disaster, I doubt they'll 'clean-up' anything at all. Least of all themselves.

People should never forget the words of the odious and unmissed Lech Kaczynski "Teraz kurwa my" = "Now it's our f*cking turn (for corruption)".

And meanwhile, the ordinary people suffer from their incompetence and hysteria.

thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/238237,Poland-less-corrupt


In 2007, Poland was 61st.

transparency.org/research/cpi/cpi_2007

Stop talking nonsense, Polonius.

Basically PiS and their gang want as much corruption as possible - providing they themselves earn from it.

And who is in charge of the ranking?

Gosh, who might be in charge of Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index?

The index is not worth much If it shows Poland to be much better than Czech Republic, Slovakia or Hungary. It's "about the same" at the very best. Corruption was a huge problem in Poland in 90's, then it got better to "very bad" level and stays the same since years.


Utter rubbish as usual.

Clearly you have no experience of those countries, because the corruption in Hungary is well known (the health service and border guards are notoriously corrupt there), the Czechs have a habit of losing money on infrastructure projects (almost 50% of the revenue from truck tolls goes to pay the company that installed the system!) and the Slovaks are still dealing with corruption in Eastern Slovakia. Poland has nothing like this in comparison.

However, it's clear that PiS want to set Poland back considerably, given that they've made it clear that Party membership will be required in the civil service.


Spoken as only a PiS supporter can speak.

If PiS weren't about corruption, they would depoliticise the civil service as much as possible.

Care to provide a relevant quote from the civil service law? The measure was enacted to do away with corrupt and fixed contests which were just as crooked as many of the industrial tenders are.

Basically trying to create another demographic to vote for them (since they only have one group of voters and that group is dying off) and, like every other scam they try, it will backfire on them.

For parasites who are getting rich on the public money without adding anything or even doing their job properly. They are useless dilettantes and scum. They are marching and protesting because they are angry and full of aggression for the simple reason the fact they are nobodies are being exposed and they lost their sinecures.


Nonsense! They were and are rotten with corruption.


A phrase that in all probability he never said. Listing to propagandist in the guise of journalists is never a good idea they lie and are not hold accountable for those lies.


An Utter nonsense and a lie.


Spoken like a complete tit.

This very much fits both PiS and their few supporters within the business community. Mostly at town hall level - that's where the PiSites get away with it most easily.

As Lech Kaczinski, the worst president Poland has ever had and the PiS leader's unmissed twin said "teraz k*rwa my", "Now it's our f*cking turn (for corruption)".

No wonder so many people are coming out for the Polish pro-democracy rallies.

Surly they cannot be worse than the old PO squad including that dangerous moron Waltz who used a private security firm paying them form the city funds to kick out Polish merchants form their stalls. Supporting Polish busies my ass. She acted in interest of the foreign firms. I wonder has he done it for free?

No wonder they called her Gronkowiec-Waltz (Polish for a staph infection).

They didn't. Only you do. On here.


More accurately and truthfully (not that you seem to care much about the truth) the few market traders you mentioned were squatting on the site of the new metro interchange station right in the centre of the capital, in a temporary building that they always knew was temporary when they took on the temporary leases.

Perhaps you think people illegally selling plastic shoes is more important to our economy than an underground rail network that takes hundreds of thousands of people to work every day and that the illegal traders who were holding up the development (at a huge cost to the taxpayer) and who were all offered new premises were more important to our economy.

Only someone who is either hysterical and out of touch with reality (like PiS supporters) might say some such nonsense. That or someone like yourself who left Poland decades ago and prefers not to live here.

Hahahah, yep I heard that one too, good one, too many Gronkowiecs in Polish government's opposition at the moment.

You're talking of course about the lady who was re-elected.

Not perfect, being a little too conservative, but popular enough to win a re-election, something that PiS have never achieved and don't look in the least bit likely to now.

I'm writing about a man who poses as a lady. Homosexuals or transexuals who draw most attention receive support from overseas and since Poland is constantly bombarded by foreign invasion into its social and political scene someone like Gronkiewicz will receive a lot of support. He is also of Jewish background so he will receive a lot more support through Jewish connections than others which is not fair and PiS should look into that too.

Let me sum it up:

A man poses as a lady... I knew
from the background he's a Jew
Those kinds as homos or transvestites do
PiS should look into them too