Demonstrations in Poland in defence of democracy.

PO incorrectly appointed 2 judges. Three correctly appointed judges are being ignored by the overly partisan ruling party.

And the TK is about interpreting the constitutionality of legislation and so party affiliation should not matter, by discussing the party affiliation of judges PiS is signalling that it intends to appoint judges who will support it irregardless of the constitution - rule of party and not rule of law.

Finally, there's no rule saying the opposition cannot try to destabilize the ruling party. That the ruling party fell so easily for such obvious bait is an indicator of its .... unsuitability for being the ruling party.

Kaczyński is a fan of Victor Orban, among others.

Orban's party got constitutional majority - enough of parliament to change the Constitution legally.
Kaczyński's party got a majority in Sejm - but not enough to change the Constitution legally. That's why they paralyzed TK - so it's unable to rule PiS laws are unconstitutional. PiS can't change the Constitution, but now it can completely ignore it.

In practice they're going to pass Constitution-breaking laws without having the required majority. Clearly, the voters didn't like them enough to approve of their meddling with Constitution. Do you think Kaczyński cares ?

PO is trying to force Mr President Duda to accept two judges they chose. The Tribunal has ruled those were chosen in a way that is against the Constitution. So who is breaking law? Or maybe PO can freely break it but PiS can't?

Duda. He is legally required to swear in as TK judges all correctly proposed candidates. The actions of the former Sejm proposing five candidates for only three positions were improper but no more illegal than them passing a bill which says all women must walk be silent Saturdays (because their action has no effect until made law by the President). He is also legally required to comply with all decisions of the TK; he's been told by the TK to swear in the three correctly proposed candidates but he refuses to do that. He's a criminal and I hope he goes to prison.

But why did PO supporters didn't say a word about what former govt did and they're vocal now? Simply because they have no honor and can't accept losing.

As an extra PiS being chosen is not a coincidence and it didn't happen in some undemocratic way some suggest. Duda was elected to be a president first with Komorowski losing then PiS was elected too. It is a proof people wanted that to happen.

All mixed up as usual: PO appointed five judges. According the the rules set out in the constitution three of those were properly made and two weren't. Nobody wants the two improperly chosen judges to be sworn in as fas as I know. The three properly selected judges should be sworn in - to not do so is to violate the constitution.


There wasn't a verdict before now? No one is now defending the two judges or PO for chosing five instead of three , it's the three that were selected in accordance with the constitution that are the issue.


Exactly. It's rule by party (as in most of the time of the PRL) rather than rule of law. Those who support the current PiS policy vis a vis the constitution are technically traitors since they're putting their political allegiance ahead of the constitution.

Those who think PO didn't choose 5 judges and did that on purpose to make problems next govt will have to deal with and claim PO didn't know it was against the Constitution are simply blind. Even if PO didn't know they're breaking Constitution back then it just shows how incompetent the former government was.

Of course they did. But it's disgraceful that it worked. Rather than appoint the three judges who were constitutionally chosen and then chosing two more of their own the ruling party took the ridiculous bait and got involved in an ugly wrangle that no good will come from.

The ugly wrangle was sole work of the frustrated and desperate bad losers who incited, instigated, whipped up hysteria and hyped the situation to no end with their KOD marches and the Michnikite yellow press. If they continue this way and produce more negative anti-Polish consequences who knows if someday Petru, Schetyna, Michnik et al won't end up on trial on treason charges?

Hence the pro-democracy rallies. When the first act of a new and unpopular regime is to subvert the constitution, people realised very quickly that things can only get worse.

Who knows that? Everybody who can read Polish law.

Unfortuantely, Poland is not a plaything and her affairs are not a baiting game. Anti-government street protests that have caused the European Union to place Poland under special surveillance and led to the downgrade of the country's credibility by rating agency Standard & Poor's have continued. Despite sub-freezing temperatures demonstrators took to the streets of some 40 localities across the country alleging that the government's reforms of the judiciary, public media and the civil service were a threat to demcoracy. "We are not revolutionaries who destroy order and seek to forcibly impose our agenda," KOD leader Mateusz Kijowski claims despite incessant virulent attacks on the government, the resultant international repercussions and the disruption of normal traffic caused by weeks of noisy street marches. The protesters support poltical groupings defeated at the polls last October by the conservative Law and Justice party which favours Poland's little guy over foreign banks and interest groups.

No, Polonius. It's the actions of the government that caused S&P to downgrade Poland. Likewise, the European Union also started with the measures against Poland based on the actions of the government.

The fact that you're writing yet again your Party propaganda against KOD shows that you're deeply afraid. Over 40 simultaneous demonstrations today very much reminds the world of what we're dealing with here - a deeply corrupt party in which personal connections and loyalty stand for far more than ability to do the job. Fortunately, we have KOD to tell the world exactly what's happening in Poland.

It's good you noticed us. Now even the uber PISed-up VIPs acknowledge us! Just wait for the protests in better weather when our ranks have been swelled by the hundreds of thousands who'll lose their jobs due to the PISed-up forcing their religious beliefs down the throats of the nation and by the tens of millions more who now pay more for everything due to PISed-up economic ineptitude.

Indeed. The hardest part is over - now Saturdays are firmly established as the day of opposition in Poland and abroad, we can expect them to keep reminding everyone elsewhere in the world exactly what this government is doing to Poland.

Incidentally, I notice that there's the beginnings of a boycott of TVP as well.

They could benefit from some cold water sprayed on their empty heads, that would cool them down a notch.

With total participation of 25 thousand people. Let's be honest, it's a joke. You can't even get half of the football stadium in the whole country, so you are blabbling about "huge number of demonstrations", I won't be surprised if next weekend we will hear about KOD in 1000 places, 1 idiot in each village.

Neither the EU of S&P have ever reacted in this way in response to any government's reforms. If was not for the rabble-rousuing, snitching and virulent media propaganda there would not have been such a reaction. Especially sicne Europe has much bigger fish to fry at thIs moment.

Perhaps no government has ever acted in such a blatant anti-democratic way straight after a election. It's unthinkable in Europe that a government would simply ignore the law of the highest court in the country because they didn't agree with it.

Still, I'm sure tomorrow's newspapers around the world will report how Poles took to the streets in 44 different demonstrations today.

More likely they'll end up like anti-polish tax fraud Tusk. Within the EU structures.


Really. Are you stupid? If PiS is unpopular but still leads in the charts what will you call Platfuses?

No opposiiton has ever acted in such a blatant, unreasonable, anti-democratic way even before the democratically elected government adopted a single measure. One possible exception would be Bolsheviks who overthrew the Kerensky government before it had even settled in proprrly. Michnik was spewing his "Fascism is coming" and other toxic kosherisms even before election day, as you'll recall.

Lying again, Polonius. The whole KOD movement started when PiS attacked the Constitutional Tribunal by attempting to pack it with their goons.

As I keep saying, PiS could end these demonstrations tomorrow by getting the puppet Duda to swear in the three legally appointed judges by PO and allow the Constitutional Tribunal to do the job.

As for being undemocratic, what's not democratic about demonstrating legally on the streets? You seem to be very very afraid of KOD - why?

Ditto! Give me a chuckle!


No, he is talking about his circles.

Notice how yet again, the PiS supporters react with rudeness and contempt. Entirely in line with their origins as PZPR nomeklatura.

Is your memory that bad that you must write one-liners to remind yourself what you have been thinking just a moment ago in order to remember? Hold that thought!

Can you blame them ?


How about your lie of saying no native Poles have posted in this thread ?


Guess we shouldn't point fingers should we delph.
The only opposition to PiS in this thread is the ex pats as far as I have read.

I didn't mention KOD but Michnik and the Platfus opposition. They were spewing their poison-pen rhetoric even before the TK sbuienss erupted. The PO wanted to stuff the TK with their own goons.

The fact that those useful idiots are aowed to chant, rant, pound the tarmac and chill their sl*ts and b*llocks indisturbed belies the claim that democracy is threatened in Poland. The Platfus clique by contarst did actually use police against demonstrators and to raid editorial offices publshing what they regarded as politically offensve texts.


But it's the nomenklatura riffraff form the bulk of the KOD ranters. Registered Polish presidential candidate Marian Kowalski led a patriotic counter-demonstration in Lublin today where he adressed the KOD ranters over a loud-hailer and asked: "Where are your young people? Nothing by retired secret police agents with cushy pensions who have come to squawk because their privileges are coming to an end." Freedom, democracy, rule of law? Hell no -- it's all about and only about privileges and filthy licre!

The old armoured car water cannon.
Like in communist days? Good call bud. Not.

Notice how the pro-Government supporters use traditional PZPR methods such as anti-semitic insults, suggest the use of the legal system/police/water cannons/etc against demonstrators and blame them for all the problems that Poland has?

It's frightening how their methods are identical, and how this government uses former PZPR mouthpieces to spread their hatred.

The whole KOD movement are a still a niche group however you slice. More signifiantly their influecne is clearly waning. Back in December amid the initial onslaught of uproarious KOD hysteria when the marches were still a novelty, Poland's Public Opinion Research Center (CBOS) found that only 27 percent of Poles rated their country's general situation as "positive". At present, after weeks of hateful propaganda and noisy loser harangues the approval rating has climbed to 32%. By the same token, 46 percent of respondents believe the country's situation is "negative", four percentage points lower than in December's survey. Gradually the novelty of incessant badmouthing of the government is wearing off. Most Poles are thoroughly sick and fed up with KOD, TK, Petru and the political class in general.


CBOS or some other polster should survey KOD backers to see who forms the bulk of the movment. Ex-PZPR types would surely be in the forefornt, to a lesser extent their children and their grandchildren hardly at all. Nearly one-fifth of PO's current MPs are former PZPR activists or secret police informers -- more than in any other party. The percentage in the KOD movement would probably be much higher.