Demonstrations in Poland in defence of democracy.

So little do you know...

As usual, it's the working people, the elderly and disabled and those with small businesses who are suffering - as they did when PiS briefly got in before. It is those people who fear the consequences of Kaczynski's incompetence, venality and disregard for the law.

If the have-nots and post-1989 losers according to you all oppose PiS, does that mean you believe the haves, those who profited from the roundtable bandwagon, the banksters, post-nomenklatura types, and snooty elites are all for PiS? If not, then maybe the garden dwarfs all came to life and voted PiS into power.

Those of us like me you mean, who work 7 days a week to put our child through university, and who have never had ONE zloty off this or any Polish government in business grants, tax relief for providing employment, or home grants of ANY sort, but were regularly harassed for imaginary tax defaults, and have paid exhorbitant ZUS business rates for 16 years ( but NO more)...

I could go on, but the Polish socialist system of "Let's help the poor" can go **** itself AFAIC.

Don't be so silly.

Most Poles oppose PIS - and they oppose them so strongly that thousands of people turn out for the Polish pro-democracy rallies. Do try to keep up with current affairs.


So wrong again. 18% of voters voted them in due to a low turnout.

Crikey Dougpo
"Those of us like me you mean, who work 7 days a week to put our child through university, and who have never had ONE zloty off this or any Polish government" jesus you are in the shoe box in the middle of the street.

But I get your point, people who work hard and pay their dues are taken as a cash cow by left or right wing governments alike, either the rich get richer off the backs of people like you, or " wasters (Not genuine people in need) who have no interest in hard work take the money out of your pocket as benefits.

Dougpo I don't see anyone working for someone in your situation either, which must be representative of the majority of the Polish population.

There again I felt the same way when I lived in the UK.

Thousands back KOD but how many thousands does your por-PiS 18% translate into? What you mean is the type of Poles you happen to hobnob with oppose PiS and back KOD, but they are in a minrotiy whether you like it or not. The volume of the street chants and rants cannot change the fact that they are but a niche group of malcontents.

This makes a lot of sense. The issue is mainly that most people here, not just people attending the Polish pro-democracy rallies, do not trust PiS as stewards of public funds or anything else. Everything they have done since taking office has only added to that distrust.

I am a (British) socialist through and through Dolno. Always voted Labour. But the Polish situation is sadly muddled and different. PIS don't necessarily stand for those who are most in need.

"I am a (British) socialist through and through Dolno" I can respect that

British socialism was quite unique in its day, a great deal was done for workers rights and health and welfare for all.

What do you recon to Jeremy Corbyn, tad too much or do you see a light from the old days when politicians were more honest and true to their values.

I am finding Polish politics a tad confusing. still learning

What are you talking about? People don't trust nobody lest of all politicians but the fact is that overwhelming majority of people voted for changes as their are fed up with all those clowns that have been in charge for tow decades.

The people voted change they voted PiS! Could you at least pretend to respect that choice?


I read your post man and yet again you are a living and posting prove that you are clueless as to what is what in the Polish politics. I guess it is at least partly due to your limited command of the Polish langue which is a shame really.

I just see a knee-jerk radical (though committed and with personal decency that doesn't sit well with party politics) with some slightly alarming views. Supported by a hard core of entryists with extremely alarming views, a real screaming mob. An absolute gift for both the Tories and LibDems, not to mention the SNP.


If you're used to UK politics, it's all upside down. Platforma are the equivalent of the modern Tory party. PiS are part-BNP, part-Farage, and part Monster Raving Loony.

I understand Polish politics all too well thank you. I speak Polish, and understand Polish news broadcasts quite well. What do you want to know?

PIS don't care for the poor, but then again, you Polonia obviously know better than us people living here. I do apologise (again) for being so stupid.


Bevan/tick
Wilson (first time)/tick
Blair/tick
Brown/tick

All of them far more charismatic and better educated than ANY Polish PM sorry to say :(

pS: Bevan wasn't PM but should have been. The father of the NHS which is now under threat, and what Poland should emulate.

Dolno - Rest assured that is only lower-case jon's interpretaiton. Has he interviewed "most people"? He always claims polls are not reliable so on what basis does he make such misleading sweeping statements. These may be the views of the limit circle he interacts with (and being a snob he probably runs with fellow elitists). His wishful thinking then projects those views it on the rest of the nation.

Agreed. I'd add though that the names on the list are Social Capitalists rather than Socialists. The last Socialist to lead the Labour Party (apart from Michael Foot and that tit we've got now) was George Lansbury (pre-Atlee, was a very old man at the start of the war, btw Angela Lansbury's father).

You're very right that no Polish leader (even Wałęsa) approaches them in charisma. One reason the centre-right Platforma lost - they were technicians rather than crowd pleasers. They did a great job, but just didn't bring the crowds out on polling day.

Though there's no shortage of people out on the streets for the pro-democracy rallies now; people who didn't generally bother to vote, hence letting the unpopular minority regime in.

Still churning out the anti-PiS propaganda? Unpopular according to whom?
Minority? Which party in post-1989 ever won a majority vote in any parliamentary election? In other words, more bollocks and BS from lower-case jon!

There you go again Po3. Nothing to say and shocked at the Polish pro-democracy rallies, attended by people who want the minority (18% of voters) Kaczynski gang to either behave (their every decision so far has been an appalling one so nobody expects that to happen) or go as soon as possible.

That's why those people now got together and voted for PiS because they wanted to suffer again, yep it makes perfect sense.

Unlike post #1,146 which does not. Fewer than 1 in 5 voted for them.

No, only you and a handful of your disgruntled cronies want that. Most ordinary Poles are sick of seeing KOD demos occupying half the evening news and fortunately the street nonsense is fizzling out. If the protesters want things to improve, let them get down to work and put their nose to the grindstone. Nothign is produced or developed and Poland will not imrpove becuase of demonstratros ranting, chanting and pounding the pavement. Initially some got their jollies that way, others actually thought they were somehow defending democracy, but the novetly was bound to wear off.

Au contraire, Polonius. So far, 34 demonstrations in Poland for next weekend, plus quite a few abroad. Chicago is joining us now, which is very nice to see.


Why didn't you tell the PiS protesters that for the last 8 years?

How would you know what "most ordinary Poles" think, since you spend so much time on here from dawn to, well, dawn, deteriorating as the day goes on that you can hardly claim to go knocking on doors and asking them? All we actually know about "most ordinary Poles" is that they didn't vote for PiS. Fewer than 1 in 5 of the electorate did.


Typical of the rage we're seeing in extreme right wing circles that the Kaczynski/Macierewicz/Ziobro phalange have been totally wrong-footed by the intensity and scale of the popular feeling against them.

And yet they were majority.

He'd say something completely different if it was PO winning elections. Funny thing is those foreigners are so involved in defending our democracy but yet they're suggesting PiS came to power in some illegal and anti-democratic way. Typical eurocratic hypocrisy.

As well you know, that was due solely to the low turnout. Only 18% of the electorate voted for them.

Hence, in part, the Polish pro-democracy rallies. That and the appalling mismanagement of the country and the attacks on democracy that started as soon as Kaczynski's puppets got (temporarily) the keys to their offices.

Thinking about keys, even if they hadn't got them, they'd just have another set of keys cut so they could break in during the night like Macierewicz (possibly the worst candidate in the country for Defence Minister) did to the new NATO offices.

There is always around 50% of turnout.


Which is still way more than any other party.

This one was rather low, especially in the more affluent voivodships.

Next time, given the Polish pro-democracy movement, it will be higher. As it was when people turned out en masse to chuck PiS out last time they were in. A genuine groundswell of common sense then, too.

If pis decisions will come out as right even more people will vote for them and you will still be here whining and imaginating other reasons of how undemocratic the election was. Probably some planets were in line in the election day.

None have so far (or did before) so I doubt people (especially the people who attend Polish pro-democracy rallies) are holding out much hope. Nor are the markets.

Given what happened in Germany in the new year eve which is only the tip of the iceberg of what is going to happen in the next 4 years accross Europe I very much doubt in people voting for any pro-immigration party which is PO for example, especially that "PiS media" is not going to hide a single bit about it for the next 4 years, which is very positive thing.

You don't know the people nor what they think and hope for.