Berlin terrorist attack -- Poland's ethnic homogeneity a true blessing

@Maf,

Do you consider the value of a single human life a "fantasy which I need to lose"???! What in the end separate us from them, human animals from our four-legged friends. eh?! The answer is our "humanity", most sorely needed, the true test of who we are vs. what we aren't, EVEN WHEN IT HURTS!!!!

Need more context.... that's why the quote function exists...

Ooooh, I feel and excuse comin' on, bud!

How much "context" do you need, for pity's sake, Maf? It's as wrong to stigmatize as it is to terrorize, can't you get that straight finally??!

Too bad 2016 is missing.

You'll find the table a good indicator

Wrong (again).

They are attacks by mad men who ARE Muslim, there is no denying this. Accept this and we can discuss the red herrings that you constantly throw into a debate.

Where's Delphian anyway ?

Indeed, the situation is worsening and calling for action.

They are attacks by mad men who claim to be Muslims, just as the terrorist bombings in London in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s were bombings by mad men who claimed to be Catholics.

But they are muslims, more than any other people, according to quran.

Quite. I remember all too well the bombings in the 1990's, and there are still terrorist attacks to this day by self-proclaimed Catholics.

It really is funny how racists will jump all over this, yet fail to acknowledge that for many years in the UK, the most serious threat came from self-proclaimed Catholics and Protestants. Muslims never established a no-go area like in the Bogside, and they certainly never drove the security forces off the ground like the IRA did in South Armagh.

Not only off the ground, in bandit country the 'Catholic' terrorists (i.e. Terrorists who were not real Catholics but said they were) used to sit down British helicopters.

Nope.

I will say this slowly so you can understand.

They WERE muslim. Someone who claims to be a muslim can actually BE a muslim you know ? The Irish terrorists who "claimed" to be Catholics were actually Catholics. Whether they behaved within the spirit of their respective faiths is very much open to debate but their religion cannot be denied..........as much as you, Delphian and Jon (what's his name) may try.

All ex - pats talking for Poland as authorities.

mate-I'm not convinced they are not all one and the same :)

Anyway, back on topic. Poland's attitude towards foreigners may well indeed turn out to be a blessing

Who are those?

They know certainly more about daily life in the country than PolAms or AusAms... :)

Nothing Catholic about murder, as the Vatican's stance on the death penalty shows.

(well, we ignore the role of the RCC in some dreadful events)

I don't remember saying anything that would prompt that question, but if you really, really, really wanna know... No, I don't think all human life is especially valuable.

For instance, the life of the Westminster attack (after the attack) was of negative value. I only hope he died in pain either feeling the first flames of hell or the gaping maw of godless infinity, whichever would have caused him more trauma.

The value of the life of any of his victims was far, far, far higher than his at that point.

Tiresome old line, impresses no one now.


Actually they claimed to be Irish, do you dispure that?

This tedious lie about how terror isn't Islamic - I DON'T CARE!

Muslims are producing more terrorists at present than all other groups combined and I'm sick of it and they need to either get their house in order or stop playing the victim card when one of the faithful gets all explody or crashy.

I'm a little disappointed in your argument this time Delphian (and Harry.....and Jon)

It is possible to be a bad Catholic but a Catholic all the same and your obfuscation this time is painting you into a corner.

Your example about Catholics is like comparing apples and oranges. They are not the same and therefore not relevant to the discussion on this thread. Unlike Catholicism there is no unified school of thought about what a good or bad muslim should be. There is no Islamic equivalent of the Pope and each mosque or madrassa often teaches their own interpretation of the Q'ran.

So back to my original point which really should not have been questioned (but thanks for the walk around the park)......muslims are still muslims even if they commit acts of terrorism that many other muslims believe is against the spirit of Islam. A bad muslim is still a muslim.

I appreciate it's uncomfortable for you guys sometimes as you're trying to peddle your own agenda all the time on the question of Islam and that requires consistency which in turn means you often find yourself having to argue the impossible as in this case.

I'm getting tired of pointing this out but that never stopped me yet so.............here goes once more.

There is no valid comparison to be made between the present Islamic terror campaign and the troubles in Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland conflict was a political one and the religions of those involved were incidental. They never bombed or killed in the name of Catholicism or Protestantism but in the names of Republicanism and Unionism. They might just as easily have been aetheists.

But.... but.... if they can't make false equivalencies, then they might find themselves subject to Thoughtcrime such as "Muslim immigration to Europe is not an unalloyed good" or "the problem of muslim religious based violence in Europe is getting worse, not better".

Much easier, for their mental health, to try to find "They did it too!" arguments.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there. The IRA were not real Catholics, not even the Real IRA were real Catholics. The madmen who attack London, Paris Berlin and all the rest are not real Muslims. So the comparison is that just as it would have been completely wrong to call the IRA's work Catholic terrorism, it is wrong to call the current terrorism Islamic terrorism.

Where is your degree in muslim theology, panie imamie, to declare who is and isn't a "real" muslim?

By this logic somewhere between 20-40 % of self-proclaimed muslims are not "real".

32% refuse to condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet

source:
channel4.com/info/press/news/c4-survey-and-documentary-reveals-what-british-muslims-really-think

You are right only to certain degree. Even though there is a Pope Catolicism differs in different countries. Hell it can even differ in one country. There are different fractions and the voice of the Pope is not always followed. And that's without going into ppl personal opinion. Even on PF you have ppl who are Catholics yet don't listen to the Pope.


Do you really think that if I was killed in a terrorist attack I would care why someone committed that act? Am I supposed to feel better looking at the victim's grave because they weren't killed in the name of God?

Comparing the two situations is valid not because they commited act of terrorism for the same reason but to show that Catholics are as capable of doing it as Muslims.

There is plenty of Muslims that live normal lives yet we want to push them into one terrorist lot. When Catholics did it we are supposed to say it's only them. Or following Atch argument maybe we should judge all Republicans as IRA terrorists?

Not to mention that nice difference in wording:


Vs


Because of course all the bombing and casualties are troubles when it's Ireland but it's terror campaign with Muslims.

The Troubles is a euphemism used by both the British and Irish governments to refer to the conflict in Northern Ireland. It's always referred to as 'the Troubles'.

bbc.co.uk/history/troubles


Lenka I've lived alongside Muslims for years, both in England and Ireland and never had any problems with them at all. They were my neighbours, my local chemist, my bus driver, my doctor and in recent years my pupils when I was teaching. The only sign I ever saw of them being difficult were the few complaints from Muslim parents about things that were against Muslim beliefs and which they wanted us to respect in school. School policy was that it was a Catholic school in a western country and we couldnt' go along with that. They accepted that. I never had the impression that any of them would take out a fatwa on us or come charging up the school yard waving sabres.

Nonetheless Islamic terrorists (as opposed to Muslims) claim to be acting in accord with and indeed as dictated by their religious faith and use Islam to justify their acts.


Anyone who commits deliberate acts of murder can hardly call themselves a Catholic and yet..........people focus on the Troubles of recent years but in the centuries of conflict on the island of Ireland, scores of practising and very devout Catholics committed murder repeatedly, or were prepared to do so to free Ireland from British rule. Michael Collins' last act on this earth was to respond to one of his men who realising that he was still breathing asked him' Mick do you repent your sins?' whereupon Collins squeezed his hand. All the patriots of Ireland and indeed of Poland, knew they were committing sin and placed the fate of their souls in God's hands. Those commiting murder in the name of Islam claim that they are not commiting sin but are, quite to the contrary, doing God's work on earth.

Really? That is your comparison? To troubles in NI? Those troubles has been of different nature, that one side is so called 'Catholic' has been purely coincidental and religion has little to do with their cause. Name me a one item on their agenda that pertained to religion. If you can't you're clearly a fool and should use that opportunity to be quiet.

@lenka 'if I was killed in a terrorist a..'
This is not about you. Anyhow you would be dead and no one would care what you think.

@lenka "Catholics are as capable of doing it as Muslims."
The difference is that religion tell to the Catholics that killing innocents is a sin and as a result one can to hell. Whereas religion tells Muslims that killing unbelievers is the surest way to ensure paradise for themselves. Besides even worse that Catholic or Muslims are commies, lefties and their ideology.

By the way argument here goes between people who say that religion has nothing to do with Muslim acts of terrors and those who say the opposite.

Funny enough those denying religion as passobiole factor are more oft than not lefties who so far are arguing that religion is the greatest case of war, oppression and generally all human misfortunes and by the eradication of religion humanity will reach and an earthly leftie paradise.

Here they sung the different tune giving credence to the fact that mostly their are shallow thinkers and wholesome morons.

Also some people tar all the Muslims with the same brush. Clearly those people are simpletons and there is no need to debate them.
There are different shades of Islam depending on a country. Plus there two main groups - Sunni and Shiite, Wahhbities and whatnot.

My standing is clear I have nothing against Muslims. I just don't think that enticing Muslim immigration into a Christian country would bring anything but a strife. Some lefties think otherwise but we have already established that they are basically glorified morons.

I even like some aspect of their culture - for one women know they place, they have great barbers.

Ironside, to whom are you speaking? Not me I hope. I wasn't the one who made the initial comparison. In fact I said:

No, to people who commented above and whose argument is as follow - hey Catholics are doing it (were doing it) too!
Well, lefties were/are even worse - all that Sendero Lumninoso, Rote Armee Fraktion, Brigate Rosse, Black Panther, United Freedom Party, Weather Underground Organization. BLM and many others leftie organizations than continues today.

The point though, Maf, is that your statement regarding the value of human life now makes YOU the very enemy you hate, namely that Westminster bloke!

Don't you see that when we allow our human value system, imbued within our Judeo-Christian ethic for millenia, to be abandoned in favor of the expedient, we cheapen both ourselves and our society! Of course we're enraged that someone would attack innocent civilians in a public place, but that attacker was born to the same G_d as you and I! If we start to give up on that notion and start to imagine that we are somehow not all equal as human beings (as people, that's another story all together!), picking and choosing whose life is more worthy, our entire belief system which nourishes and sustains us will begin to unravel even faster than it already has. Hitler too frequently justified his euthenasia program etc. based upon the singularly cynical notion of "lebensunwertes Leben" aka "a life unworthy of life".

We're already frayin' at the edges here, friend! You want things to get even more out of hand?? Liberalism and tolerance aren't "fashionable", they're ESSENTIAL. Otherwise, just call us two-legged animals walking upright and dispense with the human being label, as we've traded it in for quick-fix convenience:-)

As Churchill himself once said: "Democracy is the most ineffectual, ineffective form of government we have. But have we any better?"