Berlin terrorist attack -- Poland's ethnic homogeneity a true blessing

There won't be any reparations since the issue has been long settled. And the issue might cost Poland far more than that. Chances are very high that the structural funds for Poland will be cut in half in the next budget session.


Poland is still not contributing to the EU budget, but actually its' largest recepient so it has a weak hand in this matter. Certainly weaker than the UK did. And it might find itself in conflict with other countries that don't appreciate its low wage policies like France.


True, but this is more of a Nato matter. The UK has a seat on the UN Security Council and Nuclear weapons. Except as a buffer against Russia, Poland has little to offer in terms of power projection et al.


Perhaps, but if Merkel will deliver on her promise to almost double the military budget until 2024, this will change. Mind you, my original argument was not that Poland had nothing to offer, it certainly does, but its' importance for the EU is simply not as great as the UK was and even there the EU refused to accomodate. Breaking the rules of the EU on several cases will end badly for Poland, no doubt about it.

Poland is the biggest net recipient - when it comes to EU funds per capita Poland receives more only than Bulgaria and Romania - so there you go

@Tacitus

First off the budget for eu funds that Poland will receive is settled till 2021.
Second the eu funds aren't a gift - its an investment. Poland's market was opened up which German companies especially profited very handsomely from. Like any investor, they want to continue receiving a healthy return. Hence they can only push Poland so far before Poland says screw you and bam the principal and any future returns are over.

Even if we don't get the reparations, a one time payment of 200 zloty per pole is nothing. Its a drop in the bucket. There's plenty of revenue streams they can take 2 bil out of. Besides, Poland and Germany are currently discussing this behind closed doors. I predict a far smaller hush hush one time payment from germany to Poland (or perhaps dropping a certain issue germany/eu has w Poland or aglest the promise to not pursue any actions but still discuss it in media so as to appear to have the upper hand).

I know my country and my people and how this will most likely play out. I can guarantee you won't see masses of people clapping for economic migrants and waving refugee welcome signs. Instead IF, a very very big if as accepting migrants isn't popular with either PO or pis camps, Poland does decide to accept refugees you'll see demonstrations reaching tens and hundreds of thousands of people all over poland as has happened in the past. If even despite that migrants are let in you'll see direct actions like people blocking their buses, harassing them, perhaps even violence. Personally if I were an Iraqi Tunisian etc Muslim Poland would be my last choice. They don't want to come here and 3/4 of poles don't want am either.

We've taken in a million Ukrainians Georgians chechens etc. The eu wants to talk solidarity where were they when tens of thousands of Ukrainians were coming in daily to Poland? Why don't they relieve the pressure on poland? Germany says they've taken in a million migrants well so have we and we have half the population. However it appears that the media doesn't consider Ukrainians to be 'real' migrants even though they're fleeing war, poverty, destruction, discrimination, etc. They only want to spread around the Muslims and Africans. Could it be because they're such a burden on the state given the non stop.terror attacks, demands of housing food and money, rapes, crimes, etc? Me thinks so, after all there's only so much a country can take.

Only EUR 50 billion paid into that mess so far and growing every year. If we lose half of "structural funds" we would be a net payer and then definitely leave this mess, personally I hope it's going to happen.


EU is neither democracy nor a country. You must be crazy If you think that Germany will control Europe via Brussels for paying EUR 12 billion annually into it.


Wow, thank you. The problem is, once Poland start moving in that direction, the Berlin/Brussels faggots will be creating "troubles" to postpone/stop that. The whole "If you don't like it, you can leave" nonsense is being distributed only because the faggots think they may undermine/overthrow democratically elected Polish government with that.

The "structural funds" are an illusion created in order to fool people in poorer countries that they make a good business out of it. The most important thing in EU are regulations (damn load of them) and various "politics" and obviously they aren't tailored for the needs of Bulgaria or Poland. EU/EA are designed by/for/to Germany and France and they need peripheral areas to parasite on them, just like Britain needed colonies.

Ever wondered why "pro-European" Tusk was so loved in your country and finally got awarded with that office assistant job in Belgium, while the current government is made to look worse than Putin ? If EU is such a great deal for Poland at the expense of Germany, you should **** your pants that someone might finally put it to the end.

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/rome-woman-bound-rape-park-villa-borghese-security-catania-rimini-a7956981.html

Rome to heighten security after German woman 'bound and raped' in park

"Doctors and engineers" that Mutti Merkel said would "enrich" the EU strike again.

@Dirk diggler


And negotiations for the new budget will start in a year, and as said before, there is now a strong lobby for redirecting those funds to countries who have been burdened to pick up the tap for the rest of the EU in the refugee crisis.


Doing so would be economic suicide for Poland. Poland exports and imports more to Germany than to its' next three trading partner, and with Brexit, this number might even become bigger. As you said, those structural funds are no gift, they are granted out of solidarity to help poorer countries develop their economies which benefits all trading partners in the long. But if Poland continues to spit on such solidarity for too long, it will become more difficult to justify it.

atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/pol/


I trust that the majority of the Polish people would react in a rational manner once it has been pointed out to them that genuin refugees (from Syria) pose no threat to them. Sadly, so far PiS has not adressed the issue in a rational manner and instead used it to get some cheap brownie points with nationalists.


Genuine refugees will be happy to live in safety. Those who are not (like Tunisians) won't be part of the relocation program.


Because unlike refugees from the Middle East who require language courses and education, those refugees are of great economic benefit to Poland:

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-06/million-migrants-fleeing-putin-score-a-policy-jackpot-for-poland

Has Poland actively asked for help by relocating those refugees? Of course not, because it values their economic potential far too much.

Far from 'economic suicide.' Germany is one of many trading partners, yes at the moment the largest as the situation allows for both parties to profit. When that changes, people and corps in both countries will find new partners. Both Poland and Germany can find new trading partners at the drop of a hat to replace each other. The only way Poland would suffer an economic suicide if the entire EU market were suddenly cut off which isn't in the cards. Poland has already formed a lot of new trade partnerships lately. Sugar exports to Israel are ever increasing, new trade deals with China have been signed, energy and military hardware deals were signed with the US, and such activities will continue. The amount of finished goods flowing into Poland from China from chandeliers, to tombstones, to electronics, is staggering. There's many Poles, a few whom I even know personally, who have become millionaires within a few short years by importing high quality goods from China and selling at slightly below market Besides, trade occurs between people and corporations. Governments help by offering lowered tariffs, better deals for large volume trades, etc especially in certain sectors that governments either have a stake in, have partnerships with, or simply have acquaintances serving as executives. Poland easily overcame the sudden cut off of trade with Russia, which was rather significant especially for those employed in agriculture in the east, when the EU asked us to do so. We can do the same with Germany. Corporations and business people tend to be focused on the bottom dollar and they'll work with whatever the political or socioeconomic situation is in an area to make a buck. In Gdansk, shipping companies are even more than happy to employ North Koreans because of their high skill and low labor costs. NK companies are happy because Poland pays more for their labor than just about any other country they're in.

As far as the political and social relationship with Germany, it's already quite strained. Poles don't look at Germany the same way as they did 10-20 or even 5 years ago. Sure, some people still go to do blue collar work to make money for a week or two and spend their check in Poland. However, many Poles aren't too happy about the fact that German corps have established a near monopoly in Poland in the media as well as a disproportionate share of capital in banks.

As far as the post-2021 budget, Poland will most likely be asked to put more money towards it. The EU is already gradually asking for more and more money from Poland. If we remain in the EU, we'll most likely be a net payee within the next decade or two.

The question of migrants/refugees is yet to be determined. It's silly to ask would've, should've, could've. When people on here say that Poland is going to leave EU/get kicked out of EU for not taking in migrants that's completely false. No one ever said that from the Polish side nor the EU side. The only thing that was threatened was a possible 2 bil fine from the EU side which was months ago. Since then the EU has focused more on the perceived 'rule of law' issue. I don't have a crystal ball to determine whether Poland will accept migrants/refugees or not. I can only go by what has happened and what is happening to somewhat gauge what will happen. What has happened is massive demonstrations and public disappointment with PO for kowtowing to the EU and accepting the quota. This upset Poles a lot - not just for the quota acceptance but also that they allowed the EU to stick their nose in our domestic home affairs and are deciding our immigration policy for us - who to take in, from where, how many, etc. Since then, PiS won the election and according to two CBOS polls put out recently one stated 3/4 of Poles do not want migration from M.E. and Africa and the second and more recent one stated PiS enjoys record support at 43% of Poles while PO enjoys less than half. Add 8% of Kukiz and Pis/Kukiz is over the 50% mark. One of the reasons why PiS is enjoying such record support is because they're actually listening to Polish people and not allowing the EU to dictate certain things.

Poles and our government are more than happy to follow EU rules as far as consumer protection, economics, free movement of EU citizens, etc. We even follow certain economic and business rules that seem silly to us like having 400 some rules and guidelines on how a towel is to be produced. However, there's certain things that are a red line and we believe are up to us to decide - that's why were butting heads with the EU. The EU feels they can determine things which are typically a sovereign country's concerns and we and our elected officials disagree - especially the migrant question. If a Muslim is a EU citizen he or she is welcome to come to Poland, per the Schengen rules. However, we will not to be told who to resettle, how many, from where, etc. We Poles feel that's up to us to decide. As a born and raised Pole, I can tell you that most Polish people are deeply patriotic, especially due to our history, and overwhelmingly identify as Catholics (even if they're Easter/Christmas church goers as many are) hence the recent crowning of Jesus as King of Poland. We are not interested in having our culture changed nor our safety put at risk. We have seen what has happened in western Europe - the massacres, the terror, the rapes, the crimes, all the problems - economic and social and it's left a very unpleasant taste in our mouths as it pertains to accepting migrants. The migrants have even gone as far as asking crosses and other Catholic symbols to be taken down because they 'offend' them. We see the quotas as a slippery slope and infringement of a sovereign right and that is why we are happy to have a government that cares about of safety and preservation of our sovereignty and culture. While we do wish to remain in the EU, it is a two way relationship. There are many things that we have agreed to with the EU - far more than disagreed, however this issue is something the vast majority of Poles and our democratically elected government will fight. It is up to Poland and EU now to either settle this issue, determine a fair solution, and move on. The government and majority of Poles don't want certain migrants so perhaps they can agree to send us Christian Iraqis or Syrians, Eritreans, etc that we ourselves can vet so as to not put our society and people in danger. I'm confident while Poles wouldn't be too happy they'll be much more comfortable with Christians coming in than Muslims from M.E. and Africa.

Personally, I know that 4k 7k whatever muslims would be a drop in the bucket. Really we shouldn't be asked to take in anyone since we relieved the pressure of 1 mln ukranians and the 30k chechens we took in exceeds the quotas anyway. However the police would most likely constantly monitor the muslims that were distributed to us to prevent any terrorist inclinations and we'd most likely retain our perfect record of no Islamic terror attacks. Nonetheless, I support my country's democratically government and the Polish majority in their decision. That is how democracy works.

For now we can only wait and see what happens. I don't know what your connection is with Poland but I can tell you based on my experience, bringing in Muslims and Africans and asking Poles to accept them is going to be a very very tough sell.

There is no matter.

According to the EU (yes the EU itself and not you personally) the budget is a decided issue based on the size of a country's economy and how funds will benefit Europeans (i.e., not third-world economic migrants masquerading as refugees and illegally let in by unaccountable virtue signaling leftist buffoons who have a fetish for non-whites).

Budgets and Funding

How much does Poland contribute and receive?

Member countries' financial contributions to the EU budget are shared fairly, according to means. The larger your country's economy, the more it pays - and vice versa. The EU budget doesn't aim to redistribute wealth, but rather to focus on the needs of all Europeans as a whole.

europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries/poland_en


You can't break rules when they are made up on the go by unaccountable leftist buffoons in Berlin and Brussels with an agenda they want to push without common consent from ALL EU members.

As stated above budgets were previously decided. Tying them to the resettlement of third-world economic migrants is economic blackmail and therefore contravenes EU membership agreements.

@Bieganski


None of this sentence makes even remotely sense or is based on anything in reality.

LOL ! So what are you "threatening" ? Economic sanctions ? I would love to see faces of VW folks when they hear that their newest EUR +1 billinon factory near Poznań is a waste of money. At least half of "Polish" export to Germany is what foreign (largely German) owned companies produce here - and that's not any "charity", they just make money exploiting cheaper labor here.

Besides, there's OECD, WTO and damn load of other trade agreements, tariffs these days are no more than 3-4% on most things and works both ways. In order to start a trade embargo of some sort, you basically need to have UN sanctions in place. Good luck with that.

It's really fascinating in some way. Where do you Gerries get it from... ? That you are some sort of judges here... - don't take refugees ? Boooh - economic suicide ! That's too funny :)))

What Bieganski, as a Canadian fails to understand is that the EU is shaped by the members. The majority of members are actually centre-right, which is why the EU has so much emphasis on trade.

I suggest he leaves discussion about the European Union to Europeans.

Just back from your latest suspension from this forum and you're already trying to censor other members because you don't agree with them ? The forum is free for anyone from anywhere to discuss subjects raised on these boards..........deal with it.


Completely agree with you and I'm baffled why some people just don't get this.

I don't see why non-Europeans should be allowed to spread propaganda and lies about Europe. Their aim is remarkably easy to figure out - to destroy European unity, something all Europeans should be on their guard against.


No wonder the UK voted for Brexit when the Brits themselves are so horribly clueless about the workings of the European Union.

By the way, all EU members gave "common consent" to the current way of working in the EU. They had to, as it was part of the Treaty of Lisbon, which Poland ratified without fuss.

which Poland only ratified after the second irish referendum - PiS were in no hurry to ratify it in the hope it fails

That's a bit presumptuous. Czech Republic doesn't. Don't be too sure about the others either when it comes to the crunch. The easiest way to invoke Article 7 is to target both Poland and Hungary at the same time in order to block Hungary's veto but the Hungarians are a devious bunch and they're a lot cleverer than the Polish government so they manage to stay just within the bounds of what's acceptable. Orban cosies up to the EU quite a bit and compromises to some extent. Bad though Hungary is, they just don't quite merit Article 7. Poland on the other hand is like a child with behavioural problems who's completely out of control, running wild around the classroom, refusing to comply with any classroom rules, shouting 'whatever - I'll do what I want, you can't expel me, so there'.


There was justification for that because of the unique political situation that pertains on the island of Ireland. Just as the Common Travel Area will be retained after Brexit, Ireland and the UK MUST retain control over some aspects of their affairs. Also Ireland is a neutral country and part of the opt out in Lisbon is to ensure that we remain so. That was one of the reasons that the first referendum failed. Poland didn't have any special reason to require opt out clauses any more than any other country who wanted to pick and choose bits they agreed with.

An amusing admission-so it's ok for Europeans on this forum to spread propaganda and lies ? I will repeat it again....this forum is open to everyone and you need to stop leaning on and bullying people who have a different opinion to your own.........if you can't deal with that the leave.

Poland's ethnic homogeneity a true blessing? Indeed. But, let us be more specific. Ethnic Slavs (ie Sarmatians) you are, Poles. Truly, in purest sense of the word. But, if we speak about mixing of Poland`s population within Slavdom, greatest contribution gave Serbians. I would dare to say that out of 5 Poles, at least one have Serbian blood in himself. Minimum.

Every country has a unique political situation. While Ireland is not a 'formal' NATO member, they have a mutual defense treaty with UK, train with NATO forces, are used as a US air force stop over, and are a member of NATO's partnership for peace program. In other words, they're definitely not neutral as they side with NATO despite not being a formal member. On the other hand, UK is a formal NATO member yet still has an opt out clause to decide certain judicial and home affairs. I don't see how Ireland/UK can claim they need an opt out clause while Poland and other countries cannot. The only difference I see is that they're island nations and not in continental Europe.


True - he also cozies up to the Kremlin which I wish Poland would do but alas russophobia has become state sponsored movement, especially since they fear the USSR 2.0 project. Orban has been in the game 7+ years and has a better network inside the EU than Kaczynski. He's playing his cards a bit wiser imo. Nonetheless, Orban and Szydlo jointly declared that Poland and Hungary do not wish to become immigrant countries. Hungary caught some flak for being against Soros, who claimed that they were being anti-semites... till Israel supported Orban in his battle against Soros making his claims of anti-Semitism laughable. Israel hates Soros because he meddles in sovereign affairs through NGOs - and he's done this to Israel too. Anyway, the desire to not become an immigrant country is our sovereign right. According to CBOS, 74% of Poles do not want migration from M.E. and Africa to which our government has listened to. The same CBOS pole stated that 50% of PO/Nowoczesna supporters were against migration while 90%+ of PiS/Kukiz members were against migration. So this isn't really a partisan issue as again the vast majority of Poles are against this migration - not just PiS. At worst, we'll pay a fine although the last time I've heard of the EU even discussing the 2 bil Euro fine was like 6+ months ago. They have since focused on their perceived threats to the rule of law.

bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-27/polish-nationalists-are-beating-the-eu-at-its-own-game

Also, even if EU triggered article 7 against both Poland and Hungary (which actually only one person to my understanding, Timmermans, threatened to do so - not the entire EC at large), I'm pretty confident we'd have support from at least one other nation which means it wouldn't pass. Could be Lithuania, Slovakia, Czechy, Romania, or any other number of countries who aren't happy about one thing or other or are simply concerned that the EU is infringing too much what are typically a sovereign country's decisions. However, it doesn't even really matter - according to recent news, the article 7 threat is only coming from Timmermans - not the EC at large. In fact, there wasn't even a mention of the words 'article 7' at the last meeting of the EC -

euobserver.com/political/139144

There was no discussion about launching the two-phased sanctions procedure - Article 7 of the EU treaty - against Poland.

"The word Article 7 was not mentioned in the room," an EU official said.

Polish EU affairs minister, Konrad Szymanski, reassured his colleagues that Poland does not question rule of law as the foundation of the EU, but said there are different interpretations of the principle.

He said that Poland has responded to every recommendation of the EU Commission and the country's justice and foreign ministers would be available to meet with Timmermans.

You don't seem to understand how interdependent economies are these days. If large foreign investors come to the conclusion that it is a risk to do business in Poland, the country is toast. With what would you replace these lost jobs? Apple picking?

JP morgan just announced the creation of 2.5k-3k jobs in Poland.

Foreign companies love Poland because of its highly skilled work force which they are able to pay lower salaries than western Europe. FDI in Poland has been steadily growing and more and more companies are opening enormous offices, factories, operation centers, etc - Mercedes, VW, JP Morgan are just some recent additions.

The only reasons why international firms invest in Poland are a highly educated, yet cheap workforce and easy access to the EU market. Change one of these parameters (i.e., increase wages significantly, take a strong anti-EU stance, rely too much on service industries) and the situation will change rather quickly. Poland wouldn't be the first country that gets burned this way.

Wages have been increasing pretty rapidly but yes they're still a bit below the EU average. Services dominate Poland's economy at over 60% - agriculture accounts for perhaps 3-4% and manufacturing around another third. Wages in Poland are higher than in Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, China etc despite also having an educated work force. As far as an EU stance, while Poles wish to remain in the EU, they aren't keen on accepting migrants and allowing an outside force to erode their identity.

The foreign companies opening offices, factories, etc. aren't just looking for cheap factory workers - manufacturing may be the largest single sectors but it's for example finance and retail together are larger. There's plenty of companies who have opened facilities to employ IT professionals, pink collar workers, customer service, retail banking, etc with more to come. IT is especially hot right now in Poland and a lot of foreign companies are realizing that.

FDI as of 2015 according to Bank of Poland:

manufacturing EUR 53.8 billion;
financial and insurance activity EUR 31.4 billion;
wholesale and retail trade including repair of vehicles EUR 21.1 billion
activities related to real estate services EUR 13.1 bilion
professional, scientific and technical activities EUR 2.5 bilion

In the Schengen Area, you will not prevent a Turkish German or a French Algerian to move his large Muslim family to Poland. You can make their lives miserable, but that's about it.


Comparatively low wages is only one factor. Easy access to the EU is clearly the main driving force behind foreign investment in Poland. Manufacturing for the local market is still of secondary importance in my opinion.


How much of that is due to foreign investment? At some point in time Poland might have the same problems the Brits will face after BREXIT.

Of course not. We're already established that. Anyone who shares an affinity for Poland and Polish culture and is a benefit to our economy is most welcome. There are a significant number of Chechens and Kurds in Poland - at least 30k Chechens came since 2015. These people tend to be well assimilated. The fact is though there are very few French Algerians or German Turks that wish to move to Poland for multiple reasons. The CBOS poll did not measure the attitudes of Poles towards foreign born EU citizens. It measured the attitudes of Poles towards migrants coming from middle east and Africa, not EU.


Not exactly. Easy access to EU is one of many driving forces but actually wages is one of the most important factors. Labor is typically the largest expense for every major corporation so if they can save even $500-$1k per worker, multiplied by say 2,500 (as with the JP Morgan office) each month the numbers really start to add up. Other factors include the fact that Poland is one of the only EU countries, along with the Baltic Tigers, who have consistently been growing since the worldwide recession of 2008. The additional advantages that Poland has is the ever decreasing unemployment rate, extremely low inflation, a highly developed finance sector, low debt to GDP, excellent credit rating, and a whole host of additional factors that are making Poland an attractive country for FDI and relocating operations - especially manufacture, IT, CS, etc. Poland's GDP is hovering right around the 4% mark which is an amazing figure for a developed EU nation.

Also, corporations do not establish manufacturing plants in foreign lands for the primary purpose of servicing the local market. I.E. US or even S. Korean Corps like Apple, Samsung, LG, etc manufacture their goods in China not because they sell well in China but because of the abundant cheap factory labor and excellent infrastructure especially ports to handle their logistics. As increasing wages in China begin to match those in Mexico, US/Korean/Canadian/etc companies are gradually moving to Mexico to take advantage of the savings in shipping which was negated by Chinese labor costs. An easier business environment due to being in the same time zones as US and the fact that there's plenty of Spanish speakers in the US but far less Chinese are additional pluses.

The manufacturing hubs that were established by VW, Mercedes, etc in Poland isn't to service Polish car buyers. Poland represents a tiny fraction of auto sales for these companies. They were built primarily to service the European market as a whole. Same with the 2.5k-3k jobs JP Morgan announced at their new Warsaw center. It is meant to service European (or perhaps even global) customers of JP Morgan.


100%... FDI = foreign direct investment...

Yes, I said that already in one of my previous posts. Lower wages plus direct access to the EU market are what draws foreign corporations to Poland. Now let Poland do something stupid like the Brits did with BREXIT, and there goes your economy. That's why I believe that the country's negative "attitude" towards the EU is somewhat counterproductive and more like playing with the fire.


Yeah, sorry. I read "GDP" for whatever reason.


Or it actually measured the attitude of Poles towards Muslims, who knows? That's why I used the Turkish German and Algerian French as examples.

Why would they do that in the first place? Unless we talk about the distant future when Germany is copletely wasted land.

Because they got a job offer in Poland?

Large muslim families don't typically look for jobs abroad, they live on welfare when they are in the right country which is Germany.

I can't believe they re-elected carrot top to another term, what a disaster she caused. Where is worst place in the EU? Berlin, Paris or Londonistan?