Don't let Poland become like my country, France.

Looks like "green" propaganda is so massive and successful, so Germans pay that "green energy tax", vote for nuclear plants shutdown, and not even asking questions (yet)...

Fortunately, there is people who don't forget basic math... ;)

Fritz Vahrenholt, who heads a subsidiary of energy group RWE that operates wind farms and biogas plants, says that the fluctuations of renewable energy could lead electricity prices to skyrocket and hurt Germany's economic competitiveness.

"If we set our goals too high and dream of renewable energy covering all of our energy needs, then in the end we're not going to have a steel, chemical, or machine-tool industry anymore - and then the Chinese will thank us," says Mr. Vahrenholt.

csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0928/Why-many-environmentalists-will-fight-Germany-s-green-energy-plan

Fortunately, France is not so brainwashed (to be a bit closer to topic). ;)

Okay..it's baseless discussion..let us come together in 20 years. It's a new kind of industry and technology...I'm quite sure there had been alot of russian doubters and mockers from their horses as the Germans put the first cars on the streets. ;)

But honestly I have much more trust in german industry/business than what a Russian thinks about math.
Our business was and is been much more often proven right than anything Russia did put out! ;)
They have an instinct for money and what will be a good sell!

For sure... What a brilliant idea is to use "clean Earth ideas" to avoid any competition and pull some funds out of everyone's pocket just to subsidize "right businesses and persons". ;)

No doubt that German industry and engineering traditions is really strong. I just trying to tell that atempt to move to 100% of "renevable energy" will cost too much to German industry.

I have some selfish motives here - I do not want to see Germany purchasing increasing amounts of russian gas during decades just to climb out of a$$hole once "green madness" will prove their inconsistency. It will slow down development of my own country, but will create more "fat cats".

Just a fraction of funds that now goes to pockets of heavily subsidized solar and wind generation equipment manufacturers and owners, invested to new technologies of safe sub-critical thorium nuclear plants and advanced fuel reprocessing technologies would make Germany energetically independent for centuries and provide basis to technological growth. There is plenty of thorium on Earth, no need for expensive enrichment, by-products of thorium fuel production is valuable rare-earth metals widely used by industry. Processes by itself is much cleaner compared to uranium fuel cycle, much less minor actinides that is long lived and have litle practical uses.

But, for now, high-tech suicide way is choosed. ;)

So, let's see what happens in a 10-20 years...

"high-tech suicide" ;)

A combination of words you won't find here...one has to be a Russian to use that!

But yeah...let's compare our countries in 20 years :)

I don't think one will find them anywhere, because even the Neanderthals (sorry, ancestors, no offense) tried to find better tools to improve their lives. Homo sovetici are the worst branch of humanity, it thrives in regression and moves backward, no matter how hard it is.

Yap, and you as Ukranian are pisssing because of them in your pants. Nothing has changed. Do they that much scare you?

He is not a real Ukrainian. He posted a couple of "ukrainian" folk-inspired videos for discussion a while ago, and couldn't even tell that the second was done by the Russians, with atrocious Ukrainian accents. So funny!

I am scared of stupidity. Because it has no logic or explanation. Because normal people don't waste time on inventing ways to destroy progress. They, on the other hand, have only one goal - to trample you. Backwardness leads to disasters. Homo sovetici is a menace for those countries which remember "kovbasa" (sausage) of 1970s and how cheap it might have been, but forget about persecutions, prisons, millions murdered in Siberia and at home, fear to be, to express who you are ethnically, sexually, intellectualy, you name it. Those people enjoyed doing nothing and get the same as others who spent studying or working. These people are mindless, brutal mess of degenerates who is afraid to open up their minds and see a bit more. They are satisfied in living with no progress, as long as there is "Kalinka-malinka", a rotten dried cod with a bottle of vodka. In addition, most of that mess, in my country is made of the Russians who do nothing, but dig under.

Yeah... Some people is really desperate. ;)

Some of them blindly believe that someone else, real genius, will invent method to extract 2 kW of electrical energy from ~1kW of light energy that come to a square meter of ground during sunny summer day.... Or will figure out how to turn cattle fart to endless energy source for whole continent. The only thing that necessary is to pay much enough and wait long enough... ;)

Others have cold-war era propaganda stamps so deeply imprinted in their brains, so it obstruct the flow of new ideas and opponent arguments to unaffected areas that still can process it. ;)

Time will show what is what and who is who, anyway.


So, should I come to conclusion that german "greens" is not normal people? ;)

For sure it would better if Polish politicians were not behaving like the French ones.

I haven't expected any other conclusion from you. Somehow they manage to live normally and think about the future since resources are not here forever. You think that it is Ok to live in garbage and don't invent anything new. Why? Even if it takes hundred years - it is worth it, because when there is no oil or gas anymore, how will you power your home, car, boat,..? I know you are trying to play a devil's advocate, but can't you do it better, with more solid arguments?

hamsters?

Or Sokrates tongue-flipping technique. It might replace a thousand hamsters. But will Poland borrow him to Russia? :)

I dunno. Too much negative charge and unreliable ground

I think it would be great if Poland became a country similar to France in almost every aspect only without all these colored immigrants from 3 rd world.It's only up to Polish people wheter or not Poland will become 3rd world dump.We need to put pressure on Polish crooks called "politicians" and let them know we don't need 3rd worlders in Poland.Also it is important to boycott immigrants already in Poland,don't deal with them,don't spend any money in their pity kebob "bussineses",boycott Polish bussineses hiring them,let the immigrants know on personal level that they are not welcomed and have to go back home,call police to harras them.We also must keep image of Poland as a rascist country that will stop some of them from even coming to Poland.If any of you 3rd worlders reads this,now you know what to do GO HOME!

Another person who doesn't live in Poland yet say "we". It annoys me.

Mr "we" mind that the way you regard so called by you "3rd worlders" is the same way that Poles are regarded in Western Europe. Would you like Polish people being treated the way you've advised in case of immigrants coming to Poland?

I don't like to live in garbage. But if there is some "garbage" produced, we deal with them, doesn't try to export pollution to China and other asian countries like german "greens" try to do (never declaring this, though).

Let's see report and forecasts about German metals production...

businesswire.com/news/home/20110512005893/en/Research-Markets-Germany-Metals-Report-Q2-2011

Aluminium...
[i]On the downside, high electricity and environmental costs are undermining the long-term viability of German smelters, with Norsk Hydro reportedly considering the closure of the country's largest primary aluminium producer. Consequently, primary aluminium output will reach around 605,000 tonnes in 2015, close to 2008 levels, while exports should reach 1.89mn tonnes. However, apparent aluminium consumption will surge to 3.35mn tonnes from an estimated 2.70mn tonnes in 2010. Most of this increase will be supplied by imports, which will rise to 3.29mn tonnes in 2015 in addition to domestic recycling.[i]

So, Germany will be forced to import lots of aluminium... Most likely from Russia and China. "We are paranoid about nuclear plants, and producing enough electricity for smelters by other means is too dirty for us. Let Chinese people die due to respiratory diseases and cancer near coal power plants... We are so green, so green..."

Similar story with steel, silicon, rare earth metals, etc, etc...

Truely spoken from and inferior position with lots of envy. Enjoy your time in Ukraine, by just crying around you will not change anything. Russia will always be superior to Ukraine and not only to them.

That's what you got from my post? Envy to Russia? I do envy a bit the Western European countries' way of social organization. I admit. But Russia? Come on :) I don't feel superior or inferior to anyone, sascha.


It never was and never will be. Except, probably, in vodka-consumption.


If 1.6 billion people see it as normal... But at least they are trying to invent something that will reduce the negative effects of the industrial plants' pollution by persuing the greener energy sources utilization. The denial of the attempt to create something better is what you are presenting. And I (and you too) know that it is not right.

Is he forgetting that we're talking a Poland??????????????????????

Yessss!!! Looks like if I will dispose my garbage under the window of my neighbour, I also will be able to pretend to "at least attempt to reduce trashing" of my own land...

And nobody yet seen the bill that will come from those 1.6 billion of people later...

I think you need to be put into some isolated prison, away from civilization ... where researchers would run tests on your, so that they can know how to explain what makes people like you psychologically so unstable and violent, and how to NOT LET the future generation have any such people of your kind. It will benefit Poles and the entire mankind. :)

Nobody tries to pretend, of course, since you and I know about it. The issue is of developping new technologies today to not have to shift garbage around the Earth pointlessly, since as you said, it doesn't eliminate the problem. The EU stands at the top in this regard and I don't think you would argue. If we take the passive approach and drive Ladas polluting the environment like WWII tanks then what will happen to the world if the population hits 10 billion mark? It might result in vodka-pollution as well and I don't think Russia will appreciate it;)

EU make few smart things and a lot of really stupid populist moves that either change nothing, either make things even worse on a global scale, but anyway increase expenses for EU manufacturers.

Hard to expect something else once persons with degree in theology and similar "precise sciences" trying to control energetic and industry of whole countries.

Up to recent time european RoHS was #1 in my personal list of applied stupidity, but recent German decisions about nuclear power for sure will drive it lower...

It was very funny .

EU is the death of Europe as we know it.

Now the EU is pretty much cutting the throats of Nations like Poland, Romania, Slovakia ect
'
Because now the EU wants to put qoutas on how many immigrants to let in from Asia & Africa.

I mean many Central / Eastern European EU Nations can be a perfect use of cheap labor.

But, Instead they want to cut our throats & get cheaper labor from Asia & Africa.

Disgusting

Oh boy...seeing spitters of your qualities the EU must be something good!

fcukin hell,talk about slave mentality/low expectations!!!!!!
Why cant Central/ eatern European nations become competitors for atracting cheap labour,ie,get your own house in order before critisizing others...

I'm not into this cheap labour idea at all. You should do your best to train up your locals to do what is needed in your economy and forget about taking in Africans just because they happen to be cheaper.

Oh please...there is no such "law"
PolskiDumb is speaking out of his arse again....