Don't let Poland become like my country, France.

Yeah... First yor govt make Germany a largest importer of electricity on continent, and then try to double load on electrical grid introducing electric cars that will need to charge very often.

As far as I know, average cost of wind-generated electricity is about 3 times higher than stock prices of kw/h. And at 7% of wind generation in grid balance your wind generators installers already crying that it is real problem to find places to install more.

Either I'm overlooked smth, either "Y2K problem" hoax that put billions in some pockets will look like child game soon.

PS: Real fun will be after 20-25 yrs, when you will "suddenly" figure out that you need to completely replace worn wind generation infrastructure... And you need _much_ more energy for this task that it can provide.

Russia better keeps watching it's own problems...what you will do when you don't sell yo much of your gas and oil anymore because countries like Germany don't depend on your energy so much anymore? You can't stop the future ;)

Hopefully those great russian engineers working for Germany will then come home, as you will need them...

Nobody can stop the future. But the way that current German govt leading the country is way to nowhere (IMHO). Nearest 10-15 yrs will be very profitable for some businnesses... And then whole generation will work hard to get out of situation created by sect of "greens" and their (not so charitable) supporters.

It will be really good for Russia if demand for gas and oil will decline. (I mean good for Russia, but not for oil/gas oligarchy and politicians).

Well...we just have to watch Russia to go "somewhere"...as you are such a shining beacon of success in all fields! :):):)

Why?

Natural resources are a curse for Russia. There will be no significant economic and political development as long as there's an easier way out (easy money via selling of natural resources) available.

Too long story to tell at once. Too much foreign currency in hand of government works not very good for average russian citizen. Too strong rouble is not making life in Russia cheaper as well, and definitely making manufacture of many things here not economical.

What is good for oil companies and Gazprom is not so good for russian middle class.


Russia never choose obvious ways. ;) Let's look after 10 or so years what really happens.

For now, germans is so heavily brainwashed with "renevable energy" tales so looks like they forgot how some basic mathematics work. ;)

"brainwashed"...that's funny!
Our industry wouldn't be leading if they are "brainwashed". Our business is nothing if not brutally interested in profits.

Green technology is the future...and as we Germans say "Vorsprung durch Technik"! Those who invest now will be ahead of the rest when it is time to cash in.

Green technology is already now an important industry and employment factor...

nuclear-news.net/2011/05/10/renewable-energy-making-good-business-sense-for-germany/

[quote]...Already, the country's share in the green-tech world market is 16 percent, which means billions of Euros in business. Renewable energy has generated 300,000 'green collar' new jobs in the past decade, Röttgen says.

Big companies like Siemens and Bosch are determined to become "green multinationals." Thousands of small- and medium-sized technology companies see green technology as an important part of their business and investment strategy.

...
William Reilly, the former administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, said on a recent visit to Germany that he was impressed by Merkel's energy turn and the example it sets for the rest of the industrialized world./quote]

In ten to twenty years we will have the technology which the rest of the world wants to buy...as it is today with german tech and machinery. They will run after german tech again, not russian or serbian! ;)

You should just start to think ahead...actually that is a requirement when you want to be economically successful. Germany is just that, for decades now, always standing on our toes to keep the cutting edge.

So please excuse me if I can only smile about your yesteryear arguments! :)

Good point for decades even back during Soviet times Russia has relied only on it's natural resources for income. It had so much time to invest in technology, didn't they think the resources aren't gonna be around forever?

As Velund shows Russia still not got it what it takes to be successful....they just don't think!

Maybe it really makes a difference if you sit on free resources you can use and sell easily or if you have to use your brain to survive and become successful.

I got it.
Why aren't you starting some program of European immigration to Russia?As America in 1850-1900.
Such wast territory , rich with minerals and oil and gas!!

You are saving this resources, but for whom when young Russians are living to USA, Canada, UK, Germany.

On the end all of that will belong to Asians!


There is only one solution.
But unfortunately we have to to wait about 50 years

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

There are some problems with the 3 main renewable energy sources already surfacing. This is how it looks in US/Canada:

- biofuels are basically busted. In the US 12% of agricultural land devoted to biofuels replaced 1% of conventional oil. If the US stopped food production completely it would still be 88% short of the need. Not to mention the inconvenient details that it would have to import all its food

- photovoltaics (solar panel) the technology has moved ahead quite a bit in the last decade but it is still short of optimal. The Sun throws about 1.3 KWh per square meter on a sunny day. An average household in the US/Canada uses over 30KWh of energy per day. The number of panels and thus the area required to satisfy the need would require 23sq/meters per household if the Sun was up 24/7. It's not. Where I live we have about 220 (from memory) sunny days per year. Generously, I will use 12 hour days, even though they are much shorter in Winter. That means that to power my house I would need about 60 sq/meter of solar panels.

There is another trick. The most efficient panels are rated at about 20%. That means I would need 300 square meters of panels to supply my house with energy. That's lot. A city of 40,000 households would require 12 square kilometers for solar panels, which would cause huge environmental impact on plants, animals and micro-climate affecting both. Not a very green idea.

A installation of solar panels to yield 10KWh costs $40,000 ( had a quote from a few companies). My current cost is about $1100 per year, so I would break even a few years after I die (based on life expectancy for males in Canada) and that using only 1/3 of the energy I need. That's if the photocells survive that long. Currently their life is estimated at 20 years, i.e. I would have to replace them before I die, which would push my break-even date to about 20 to 30 years after I die.

A 25 year old who just bought a house would break even at the age of 60.

Still, there are some additional practical problems. do I have enough space on my property. I do, but there are trees around. A shadow cast one one single element of the solar panel bank causes ALL panels to work at decreased (as low as 30%) capacity. I could cut the trees but this throws out of the window the idea of "green" energy.

The roof of the house is an option, but I need to get a permit for that, and I need an engineer's opinion that the roof will carry the weight, which is an additional $1000 plus $5000 for roof installation. If the roof is too weak then it means yet more money ($5000 to $20000) and all that pushes the return of investment to about the 100th anniversary of my death.

There are many more issues and associated costs, but this is just to give you an idea that "solar" ain't as green or as cheap as you may think.

- Wind energy is particularly close to what I know about green energy as there is plenty of wind power turbines around here (the lakes, open spaces and all). There is not a week that I can just keep driving on the highway without having to stop to yield to a column of police escorted vehicles carrying huge tower elements for those wind turbines. The fukcers are huge.

There is a significant resistance to wind turbines here. Not by the kumbaya types of course. They live far away from the turbines. The opposition comes from those who have to live close to and under the turbines. The requirements are that turbines must be 500 meters or more from the nearest house. A lot of people say it's not enough. Recently municipal governments were voted out because they supported wind power. Things are being reversed now, and our provincial elections this year are already promising the scrapping of wind towers, specifically Ontario's contract with Samsung.

Oh, and those birds do bump against the propellers. Thousands. People are pissed off finding dead geese around their backyards.

I'm all for renewable energy sources and, as I mentioned above, I investigated the option for myself. It just doesn't add up at this point. I'm sure German engineers will be able to increase the efficiencies of green energy and to lower their costs. I just hope that the break even points won't be made attractive by crazy increases of energy prices. For now it is simply not affordable.

Bratwuss Boy!

An engineer is an engineer.

If you want we'll give you back all your German engineers and bomb you guys back to the stone age as your country surrenders a third time within a 100 years.

Besides the world would be a better place without your kind.

Face it, France has already gone to the muslims and will be a mostly muslim country by the year 2030.

Nahh, at best you only have 10% Muslims there now.. In 19 years they won't have a majority. Definitely a country to watch though.

I bet they will, especially after the Libya fiasco. All those refugees will set up shop there.

Lol, not with Sarko in power. His main rival for the next election just got busted for rape in NYC too. So he'll probably remain in power. France will always be Catholic and with a white majority. I've got no doubt about it.

I'm not that confident. Besides, France is so secular anyway. It's just like all those other western European countries. The European countries along the Mediterranean will have the most Muslims because of proximity to Islamic African nations. France will be secular except for the growing muslim populations which will try to change things. France has already had Sharia law issues, hasn't it?

It's only a matter of time before Sharia is allowed in.

Not sure but Sarkozy has openly campaigned to ban the burka.. or head dress that Muslim women HAVE TO WEAR based on Sharia. He won't cave in anytime soon on Muslim demands.

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6557252.ece

As someone smart said - "So hard to find a black cat in a dark room... especially if it's not there."

Can you fool the nature and get some energy from wind generators if there is no wind? (BTW: When I driven from Belgium to Poland last time, I saw lots of such beasties along the roads - still or idling at about 1 rpm. No wind... We passed Berlin ring when I saw first one rotating at full speed).

Can you get some energy out of solar panel during night?

As some smart people calculated, large wind generator installed in windy area can generate about 20 times more energy than was used to produce materials and then build and install it, during their lifetime. Vibrations and powerful infra-sound from wind turbines is also not very good for neighbours. After 20-25 years you'll have to dismantle and rebuild it (for large ones, smaller turbines usually require rotor replacement every 5-8 years). New composite materials may somewhat prolong life cycle of rotors, but not very much, and for sure will make it more expensive.

Solar panels (with silicon produced using Siemens process) not even able to return energy spent for their manufacture during whole lifetime (!!!). In addition, processes used in production of solar panels is NOT environmentally friendly (really dangerous, to say the truth). There is some processes in devellopment that require much less energy to produce solar grade silicon, but feedstock materials for this processes is quite rare and expensive, compared to Siemens process. AFAIK, Germany does not have such resources at all.

All renewable energy sources is not guaranteed. Absolutely. So, if you have grid with generation only from wind/sun - you need some energy reserves, like hydro-accumulating stations or something similar. Which part of Germany you ready to flood to build such stations?

I agree with him but Muslim women don't see it that way and will want to wear that Burqua despite Sarkozy. Can you really keep someone in jail for wearing a burqua? It's not like it's a major offense.

No they don't. And use the right terminology

hijab = hair and neck covering

niqab = face covering (the burka is a local form of niqab)

IIRC neither is mentioned in the Koran. They're based not so much on religion as culture. Seeing as how the cultures that practice face covering cannot create the kind of civil society that I like living in I'm all for banning them in public areas. In the west you show your face in public. Don't like it? Go somewhere where it's the norm.

Hm... If majority of French people see it that way, maybe it will be beter solution for that Muslim women to leave France and find better place to live?

Green technology augments, but will never provide, the bulk of energy needed for a modern civilization.

What will happen to nuclear power in Germany?

Oh my f**** god..
stop complaining and ******** altogether and do something about it!

white population declining? well go fvck more and have more children!
Blacks/Asian/Latins/arabs invading your country? well do the same they did in the past with Europeans, kick them out!

I am in favour of a tolerant society and against all type of racial discrimination, but if you feel it is getting overwhelming, then do something about it instead of just whining!

And take it to the real responsibles, the criminals, the ones who avoid taxe paying/ molesters/thieves.. do not take it with the honest guy who works at a fruitshop or restaurant...cause many coward europeans always take it agains the innocent ones, not the real guilty...

This Imam agrees with you

youtube.com/watch?v=lT9nVHIh0nE

Unlike many of the so called 'Imams' who are self appointed with no formal education, this man is a doctor of theology at Oxford and has upset a few Muslims by allowing a woman to speak in his mosque. If there were more like him there wouldn't be this problem

If you've got time to watch this, he explains more

youtube.com/watch?v=RtLd6AKiTfs

You're in favour of a tolerant society and against all types of racial discrimination but advocate "kicking them" out and "taking it" to those you refer to as "real responsibles".

Define taking it to themand who are the real responsiblesyou speak of?

The skyline of town of my birth is now dominated by Minarets. My father didn't want them there but no-one consulted my father. He just found his job in the textile industry being taken. He had to go back to University despite already having a degree and had to re-skill. Not easy as married man with one child.

Slowly the textile industry died in the UK because it was taken overseas to India and China.

The result is that a lot of that immigrant labour was now unemployed. What did they do?

Do you think they got off their arses and re-skilled like my old dad??

Mass immigration and clashes of cultures do not come without a price and it isn't the affluent or the politicians that pay that price. It is the average man on the street.

You see it doesn't have to be the violent tax avoiding, child molesting theives who are referred to as the responsibles. The definition of responsibles can be applied to the cheap labour immigrant that replaced my father or the fat cat CEO sat in his reclining leather chair who just off-shored 5,000 call centre jobs to save XYZ million of which 1.X million will form part of his annual bonus.

The UK is still not truly integrated, despite what some would have you believe. Sure we make a better job of it than most but it is not truly integrated. Oldham, Burnley, Bradford, Blackburn......to name but a few. All cities that experienced mass immigration back in the 60's which continued unabated ever since and STILL these cities remain divided.

Only now there are draconian laws that make what you suggest impossible. Try telling Mr. Mohammed he can't build another mosque and watch him howl.

Poland has some decisions to make and it needs to put policies in place now. Immigration managed sensitively and properly can be made to work but managed in the way the UK managed it (or didn't manage it should I say) will result in serious problems.

In Greece we already have clashes between whites and non-whites and believe me it is not nice to check around if anyone is carrying a knife.

In the US the main problem are wetbacks, illegal aliens mainly from Mexico and other Hispanic countries. They cross the broder illegally, double up with their already insatlled compatriots in Hispanic ghettoes and immediately land on the dole, get child support, food stamps, free medical treatemnt and other welfare perks but often do not work or pay taxes. Ordinary hard-working tax-paying folk are fed up with it all, but the wetbacks keep coming and coming. And the liberal mainstream media and the 'politically correct' entertainment-industry types eagerly hurl labels such as 'racist' and 'bigot' when anyone tries to point this out.

This seems to be a world-wide thing which, if unchecked, may well eventually spell the undoing of Western civilisation.

Don't make this thread about the USA.

This is a bald-faced lie. Illegals come here to work and are not eligble for welfare. Polonius you have been misled, and your use of the term "wetback" shows that you are a lowbrow moron.