For all Americans worried about Schengen in Poland, dont worry about it.

Perhaps, but I do not believe it was right to use Poland as a tool of exchange or for consideration of the Russians efforts in the war.


You cannot take the heat, huh? I'd rather be a redneck than a Góraly.

Not only that but It's fairer to other smaller states to be able to choose with whom they want to side, not be threatened to do so. No one likes a bully.

Nun ja...that was the problem with the Sovietunion...it wasn't exactly a union of volunteers.

We do not like being referred to as a superpower, not when we are in debt forever without hope of paying any of it down and people are just getting poorer and more ignorant and going bankrupt.

We feel like slaves to the world with this whole world police concept some US political buffoon came up with 30 or more years ago.

We would prefer the world takes care of its own problems wherever those people with those problems may be, and that we negotiate for oil the way the rest of the world does. It would costs us less in real terms.

Near $15 trillion in debt. Incredible.

Spot on. Hopefully more americans start thinking like this and Ron Paul gets elected.

I don't think Ron Paul can fix these montrous issues. He has the right idea as a Constitutionalist, but I just don't see how the honorable Ron Paul could turn any of this around for the USA, not in one term. And, unfortunately, Representative Paul is 75 years old, so I doubt there would be a second term of office if elected to a first term.

I like what he has to say. Perhaps his son could run once Mr. Paul left office.

It is damn near impossible...

You have to live in Poland and file paperwork every year. Even if you have lived in the same location they still want the same information all over again.

If you leave for too long of time you have to start your time all over again.

Every year for 6 years until you can file for permanent residency.

First you get approved by the consulate and then you have to get approved all over again once you are in country.

Reading these posts one can assume Poles hate foreigners and it bothers them that there are 20 or 50 foreigners living in their city. Yet it's ok for millions of Poles to live in other countries, puke down their streets and fight in bars. Why do Poles think they are better than anyone else?

Yeah, been through that. Marry an Italian. It is easier. Poland excludes through bureaucracy. They make it difficult because Poland is a protectionist society.

When I got married, I paid this one and that one to get a stamp and got sent across the city to another office, then they wanted me to come to court and then they said the paperwork wasnt correct. It went on for a year. Finally, we went to Copenhagen and got married in 3 days.

It is a shame because my wife wanted a church wedding.

Poles do not hate foreigners, but they do resent them. I remember I applied for a job in a bank, and they said, to my face, "Maybe you are a spy." No one is more paranoid than a Pole. I swear they keep records of every conversation you have with them. And they keep them for years. I went out with a Polish guy once and we had some beers. Two weeks later he called me and he said, "You owe me a beer because I bought one more than you did." Now, that would be funny if he wasnt serious. I laughed and he asked me why I was laughing. He also went on to say that I owed him 15 PLN for using his mobile for an incomplete call only because my battery was dead. I never spoke with him again.

I lived in an apartment building with about 8 apartments. In the adjacent apartment was a Scottish girl and an American girl. One day she came to me, the American girl, and said, "You know, the landlord came to me and said that I was causing a problem with one of the neighbors. I asked what I had done, and the landlord said, 'Well, you owe her a piece of coal.'" It seem the American girl was trying to start her heating and the lady gave her piece of coal to prime the system. Well, after a few day she wanted it or a similar piece returned. But I guess any crazy old lady can be like that.

I do remember going into a bank once and trying to cash an American Express travelers check. One small tiny bit of the corner came off in the book. I mean it was as small as it could be and still be noticeable. The cashier called an associate, and the associate called the manager. They all examined it for a few minutes and they looked at me several times and at the check and at me, and finally they said, "We can accept this, it is damaged." I called them all idiots in Polish as best I could at the time and stormed out. I regret that. I was just being a frustrated foreigner. They really didn't understand what I said. My Polish was really bad.

Living in Poland can be frustrating if you are accustomed to fast service. The customer is hardly ever right in Poland. But Europe is like that in general. Shops and banks have been sitting there for years and they know that if you live in the neighborhood, you probably have to come there. They do not consider it a favor that you shop with them. They consider it a favor that they are there for you.

Love it or leave it.

lowfunk99 wrote:


it's a crazy process but it's similar to the rest of RP.

if you ask me, why would you expect an expeditious, smooth method of gaining residency in a country that.....well.....doesn't deal much with the process in general? they don't exactly have a lot of practice dealing with foreigners pouring in so the process simply is unrefined.

secondly, bureaucracy exists in Poland and everything involves never ending paper pushing because if it didn't, a huge chunk of the work force would be eliminated, putting many many people in Poland out of a job. imagine what would happen to all those people sitting in those offices that have but one, maybe 2 job responsibilities, miniscule ones at that, if all of a sudden Poland got smart and said OK, let's cut the fat here and here to get things moving smoother. whenever you look at Poland's unemployment rate, it's only what it is because the country still employs lots of people to do senseless jobs that should have been obsolete with the birth of computer advancement and the internet. hence, when you want something done in Poland, you get tons of paperwork and it is seen by 15 different hands in 15 different offices before it's complete.

It really simply is not worth it to live in Poland to go through that. It is not. Go 3 leave 3 if that is what you have to do. Poland is OK if you have family or lots of friends, but alone it can be terrible.

There is Hel and Gdansk (which isnt that great) the Mazurian Lakes, the Tetras Mountains, Zakopane in the winter, Warsaw which isnt that great except for one or two streets, Naleczow (which isnt that great) but it is a nice quiet little community, lots of villages across Poland like it, Ojcow, Krakow (which is really spectacular), Florianska is my favorite street, Wieliczka, which you have to see once in this life. The list goes on. But there is nothing like living there. As have I stated ad nauseum, as one poster likes to say, I lived in Poland for 6 years. I loved my life there, but it was not sustainable. You really need to go with about a years worth of cash, and try to start a business or something to stay legally. Or go as a student and do your best.

Actually, it doesn't bother Poles. What bothers them is when foreigners come in and ignore the rules - which is fair enough - who wants outsiders coming in and ruining things for you?

Poland is very neutral towards foreigners - they don't embrace them, nor do they hate them. Which is nice, really - you're treated as being equal to them.

That doesn't bother them IME, ignoring rules is the national sport. What bothers them is foreigners who don't know how the system works (which includes learning which rules to break and how) and also refuse to learn and expect the country to adapt to them and who get all preachy when it doesn't.

A certain kind of foreigner in Poland tries to play rugby when everybody else is playing soccer (and then gets mad when they're sent off the field).

Poles generally expect that the longer you're in Poland the more you should play by Polish rules. They don't mind making allowances for short term guests but don't like people who've spent years in the country and still expect special treatment.

On this one I am definitely not trying to start an argument. Everybody understands that legitimate rules need to be followed, and that they apply to everyone, and not just these or those.

Having said that, any idea how many people live in the USA illegally?

11 million to 12 million illegals.

How many from Europe? Around 600,000 to 700,000.

How many from Poland? 70,000 to 80,000

How many Poles in Chicago alone? 185,000 Poles. There are other very large populations of Poles living in various major cities throughout the United States. We have been accepting Polish immigrants for decades and they are everywhere.

How many Polish decendants in the United States? 10 million.

How many US born, non-Polish decent American citizens live in Poland?

How many live there illegally? The answers to these two questions would be nice to know. I searched for info and found none immediately.

As you said, what makes Poles angry is when people ignore the rules. I dislike saying it just like this, but if Poles don't want Americans in Poland, then let`s revoke some Polish American citizenships and all Polish immigrants and first generation Polish Americans can go back home and they can stay there and we will stay here. Or they can forfeit their Polish citizenship and quit using the USA like an ATM and running home when they want free education and medical care.

If single citizenship Americans cannot have the best of both worlds, then Poles shouldn`t either.

delphiandomine wrote:


sure, as long as you're not asian or black or muslim or.....

you've been there long enough delph to know that you're only getting under the radar screen there if you're white and like some Jesus.

Michaelmansun wrote:


you misquoted me, I didn't write that.

mafketis wrote:


isn't that the truth.

michaelmansun wrote:


but why should the USA care if one of their citizens runs out to Poland to get educated? while they were growing up, their parents were paying taxes to pay for the schools the kid was going to in the USA. now, they're going elsewhere for their college education. business is business and college is business. for a kid growing up in Michigan with low income parents who can't afford to pay $20,000/year for college tuition in America, as long as Poland keeps the doors open, all the power to them. Use what resources are made available to you. If someone from Poland can visit America and buy an iPhone for half the price while they're there, why can't a Pole living in Michigan with dual citizenship go to Poland to get educated to save money? Free market, baby.

No, it isnt a free market, baby. Not in Poland. Not for me. Look, be a Pole or be an American. I dont believe in this multiple citizenship thing. Be dedicated to one nation and stick with it.

I pay a lot of taxes in the USA and I have paid a lot in Poland. I don`t get a free education. I just feel that if a Pole wants to be an American, then be one and suffer along with the rest of us. For better or worse and so on. It should be a requirement in the USA that you have to surrender your foreign citizenship when you swear in. If you want it so much it shouldn`t be a problem.

Like you said, its expensive to get an education in the USA. Why should a Pole be my boss because he could run home and get a free education? I mean, my people have been in the US territories since around 1790. The USA needs to protect its own, and a Pole coming here as a kid or winning citizenship in the lottery or being one generation removed from immigration has given nothing to the USA, has made very little in contributions.

I dont believe in dual citizenship. There is no loyalty in it.

And it is not fair to Poland. If you are not there contributing to Poland, why should Poland educate you just to see you come back to the USA to make a better wage?

Are you not pushing someone else in Poland out a seat? What if that person has no options but to stay in Poland and try to make his life there? But you come with better marks and push him out of a free spot and he has to pay or just become a mechanic. Meanwhile, you take the education and head West for the bucks!

I dont see how any of that is fair to Poland or the USA.

michaelmansun wrote:


that's fine man, but you still can't blame them for doing what is being offered to them. if you go to Poland to visit and buy something there because it's cheaper there than in the USA, that's just how it is. name your price and if it's too high, i'll go buy it somewhere else. education is no different. it's business.

Here's a scenario: Polish people import cars from the USA because it's cheaper. Even after paying for shipping fees, it's still much cheaper. Should Poland not allow them to do it because they're not spending their money in Poland? Should the USA remind them of how disloyal they're being to their country because they're spending their Polish money in the USA?

What about when people come from Korea, India, China, Japan and go to $40,000/year colleges to get educated in the USA? Should we tell them to spend their money back home?

look, if Poland wants to educate a 1st or 2nd generation Pole that was born and raised in the USA, someone who will not stay and work there, that's their problem. the USA loses the business by them not paying for college in the USA but....well.....you want people to attend your college, make it more affordable....offer government subsidies....do what you gotta do to keep people on your soil. FREE MARKET, deal with it.

like it or not, people have all the right to move freely to get what they want, as long as it's legal. can't say no to them based on loyalty measures.

countries compete in business, education is no acception, man.

Do you see the oxymoron in your statement? Whose ATM are they using? US? or Polish. Once again the wisdom of the Yanks is astonishing.

No. Nothing contradicting here, but try again. I will explain once, as you are obviously thick. The USA is the ATM, Poland is the home.

Polish emigrants send money to Poland. For 2010 it was $9.1B. Not a trivial amount.
Poland's entire expenditures on education in 2009 were 35.6B PLN, or $12.46. I think Poland is getting a good bang for the buck on their people it educates and who later return the favor with a significant tip.

On the other side, SOME Poles living in Poland use Polish taxpayer's money to spend it in the US. An example is Polish Ministry of Health that finances various gigs in the US to cover their de facto shopping trips.

z_darius wrote:


$9.1B would be the traceable amount, I guess.

That figure is according to World Bank data, so yes, I imagine in reality it's much more. Those "fistfuls of dollars" a lot of Polonia visiting Poland hand into the hands of their siblings, nephews etc are definitely not accounted for. Neither are the material goods or the funds they spend on every day activities such as travel, food and so on. This is all pur profit for Poland, not just internal shuffling of money from one pocket to another in the same pair of pants.

In the US and Canada, parcel services to Poland are still a good business.

Let me see; running home when they want free education and medical care is somehow using US as ATM? Perhaps only in a sense that they made direct deposit in that ATM of yours in the form of Social Security tax funding programs such as unemployment insurance, temp assistance to needy families, medicare, medicaid, state children's health insurance programs etc. not to mention other taxes all to the benefit of the native Yanks but when it coms to using those very programs and services they run back to Poland. Ah I got you ;)

Is there any reason why we Europeans would like to come to your country? I can think of nothing.
Culture and history? You have to be joking.... You were living in trees when Michelangelo was drinking beers and negotiating his contract with the popes.

I thought China is the ATM of you yanks these days?

sobieski wrote:


this is a side argument, but I fail to see how the relationship between age of country and overall quality of life have any correlation. if that were the case, I'd go live in Egypt.

over the past 100+ years, millions upon millions of people have come to the USA from Europe to live, even though the churches in their hometowns were considerably older.

Thats is the natural order of things!

We Europeans. That`s a laugh. For decades Europe wouldn`t claim Poland, and in fact, rarely permitted Polish People to cross the border even into Germany. I remember travelling with some Polish friends in 1996 to Germany and I mean we there just a few km in and we got stopped by the German police.

They made us get out and sit on the highway. They went through the car for 30 minutes. They used to joke about Poland and all the car thieves. And they would only let you come to clean houses.

Now Poland is European and all is forgotten. "Oh, we were always European." Well, there is European and there is "You`re a Peon." I think we know which one Poland was for about 60 years.

Why would you come to the USA? Good question. Get on Skype and call your 1o million cousins and ask them to leave the USA, that it embarrasses you.

ATM? Look, The USA has always been a source of funds for Poland. I mean jobs, cash, working, whatever. And when it was time for free education and medical care, you ran back home. For those of you who don't seem or dont want to understand what I said, an ATM dispenses cash. You can make the argument that Poland with its free education is also some sort of ATM, but not really. If you cannot see the difference, then just overlook the post.

You are simply purposely contentious.

Hey Mike! I told you already that sobieski is Belgian.

Well you know why there is a pile of poop in front of every Belgium store? Because the sign on the door says, "Please Push Hard"

To say you guys fought so hard to shake off one Monarchy you dont half seem to love family dysnasty's in your political life :)