A bit of neat flying there...
I bet there was a few needing fresh belizna on board though...
I bet there was a few needing fresh belizna on board though...
Polish hero pilot lands 767 without wheels. (Warsaw)
catsoldier 54 | 574
2 Nov 2011 / #32
at 16 seconds you can get an idea of it's speed when it passes some stationary objects in the video below
Does this happen often? Maybe they should have a special place for a plane like this to land with things to slow it down and cushion it's landing?
Does this happen often? Maybe they should have a special place for a plane like this to land with things to slow it down and cushion it's landing?
Mark in Florida - | 1
2 Nov 2011 / #33
I've always enjoyed flying LOT. Have made 4 roundtrips from Chicago to Warsaw and flights have been on time, the flight attendants professional (though they could be a bit more friendly), the food pretty good for an airline, my fellow passengers interesting and enjoy the feeling that I am experiencing Poland as soon as I board. Nithing like flying and enjoying a Zubrowka and apple juice en route. Thrilled about this pilot's excellent work. Hope he's the captain of my flight next summer!
Great story! I'm very proud of the pilot and crews both on the plane and on the ground. It was beautiful, like poetry. The foam sprayed on the tarmac allowed the plane to just gliiiiide.
Capt Tadeusz Wrona, 20 years experience on the 767, around 70 years old
He is 53. He has been flying gliders since he was 16 years old ( a minimum legal age to do so). Some experts say now that his experience flying and landing a glider helped him today.
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Wrona_(pilot)
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 438
2 Nov 2011 / #36
wiki/Tadeusz_Wrona_(pilot)
I bet that page didn't even exist two days ago :)
This reminds me of the British pilot SFO Coward, who managed to crash-land at Heathrow a few years ago, but with much less time to decide what to do. Let's hope that the sickening Western compensation culture doesn't rear its ugly head in Poland after this incident, as it did after the Heathrow accident. If it was me, I'd count myself as lucky to be alive - that's reward enough!
What a remarkable and miraculous landing. The pilot is certainly a skilled professional and definitely a hero.
wielki pan 2 | 250
2 Nov 2011 / #38
The pilot is certainly a skilled professional and definitely a hero.
Absolutely skilled and a professional, but not a hero. He was doing his job, which he did very well...The next question to be asked is how good is aircraft maintenance at LOT??? hmmm I hope not another example of cost savings and shortcuts!
Well done to that pilot!
Looks like those new Boeing 787 are badly needed the 767 was a good plane but its glory days are long gone.
skysoulmate 13 | 1250
2 Nov 2011 / #40
Hi all,
I saw the video via a company safety forum (all airlines learn from accidents/incidents) and thought I'd chime in here.
First of all, well done to the crew! Text book gear-up landing, just the way it's taught in simulators.
I flew the 757/767 for many years, my 767 time is primarily in the -300 family which I believe is what LOT uses? I understand the crew knew there was a hydraulic system issue shortly after take off but decided to continue on. I probably would've made the same decision, it was just one system (center) and I'm sure they ran their checklists, contacted their dispatch & mx, looked into all their options, etc., etc. The fact the gear failed to extend in the alternate mode is very schocking to say the least. B767 is a very reliable aircraft and the alternate system for the gear is surprisingly simple and yet ingenious. Basically there are small electrical locks that unlock when activated which lets the gear to "free-fall" into the down and locked position. I'm schocked the gear failed to deploy in that mode. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about a maintenance error although it could be something else. Either way, the comments relating to no wanting to fly on LOT until they upgrade the fleet are very misleading. Professionalism, training, good maintenance, etc., is 90 percent of an airline's safety record. What airplanes they fly is actually not as critical as many think (well, there are exceptions but generally speaking western manufacturers have very good safety records, enough about that). So I think that LOT is a perfectly safe airline (duh? ;)) and no one should be afraid to fly on them, I haven't but won't hesitate if an opportunity presents itself.
Just a few additional comments - Everyone remembers "Sully" - the "hero" pilot on Hudson river correct? Answer quickly - what was his co-pilot's name? Anyone? What about the flight attendants? See my point? The passengers love to choose a "hero" when in fact we always have a crew up there working together. Not sure about the term hero - it is after all our job. They did a great job!
As far as flying, remember that there were two pilots in that cockpit, the passengers tend to focus on one only, usually the captain, but remember that this is a crew concept, one person keeps flying while the other troubleshoots, runs checklists, etc. Each airline does it their own way, most let the pilot who kept flying when the incudent happened to keep flying while others, like USAirways make the captain take over. Doesn't matter, they're all pilots. I've had my share of incidents both as a first officer and as a captain and the other pilot's assistance was ALWAYS invaluable. We are always a crew!
Next time your flight gets delayed please remember this and other "good stories" and give us some slack. :-)
Again, gratuluję dwóch pilotów LOTu!
Not quick enough to revise...
Meant to say "gratulacje dla B767 LOT pilotów i flight attendants - a text book emergency gear-up landing and cabin evacuation! Kudos to you all!"
PS. Correct my Polish please, somehow it doesn't sound right...?
I saw the video via a company safety forum (all airlines learn from accidents/incidents) and thought I'd chime in here.
First of all, well done to the crew! Text book gear-up landing, just the way it's taught in simulators.
I flew the 757/767 for many years, my 767 time is primarily in the -300 family which I believe is what LOT uses? I understand the crew knew there was a hydraulic system issue shortly after take off but decided to continue on. I probably would've made the same decision, it was just one system (center) and I'm sure they ran their checklists, contacted their dispatch & mx, looked into all their options, etc., etc. The fact the gear failed to extend in the alternate mode is very schocking to say the least. B767 is a very reliable aircraft and the alternate system for the gear is surprisingly simple and yet ingenious. Basically there are small electrical locks that unlock when activated which lets the gear to "free-fall" into the down and locked position. I'm schocked the gear failed to deploy in that mode. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about a maintenance error although it could be something else. Either way, the comments relating to no wanting to fly on LOT until they upgrade the fleet are very misleading. Professionalism, training, good maintenance, etc., is 90 percent of an airline's safety record. What airplanes they fly is actually not as critical as many think (well, there are exceptions but generally speaking western manufacturers have very good safety records, enough about that). So I think that LOT is a perfectly safe airline (duh? ;)) and no one should be afraid to fly on them, I haven't but won't hesitate if an opportunity presents itself.
Just a few additional comments - Everyone remembers "Sully" - the "hero" pilot on Hudson river correct? Answer quickly - what was his co-pilot's name? Anyone? What about the flight attendants? See my point? The passengers love to choose a "hero" when in fact we always have a crew up there working together. Not sure about the term hero - it is after all our job. They did a great job!
As far as flying, remember that there were two pilots in that cockpit, the passengers tend to focus on one only, usually the captain, but remember that this is a crew concept, one person keeps flying while the other troubleshoots, runs checklists, etc. Each airline does it their own way, most let the pilot who kept flying when the incudent happened to keep flying while others, like USAirways make the captain take over. Doesn't matter, they're all pilots. I've had my share of incidents both as a first officer and as a captain and the other pilot's assistance was ALWAYS invaluable. We are always a crew!
Next time your flight gets delayed please remember this and other "good stories" and give us some slack. :-)
Again, gratuluję dwóch pilotów LOTu!
Not quick enough to revise...
Meant to say "gratulacje dla B767 LOT pilotów i flight attendants - a text book emergency gear-up landing and cabin evacuation! Kudos to you all!"
PS. Correct my Polish please, somehow it doesn't sound right...?
PlasticPole 7 | 2641
2 Nov 2011 / #41
Those two pilots are truly gifted. The passengers are lucky to have them on board.
Im happy no one died.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear about a maintenance error although it could be something else.
It shows you know nothing about the real cause of that failure . As a matter of fact the electrical circuit leading to this gear collapsed . So , it has nothing to do with the maintenance .This is what they say so far .
Update from the Prague airport Marriott: both runways at Warsaw airport will remain closed until 4am tomorrow morning. LOT have responded to this by not diverting today's flights to Lodz/Katowice/Poznan/Krakow/etc but simply canceling all flights which were scheduled to use Warsaw. Brilliant, eh?
hudsonhicks 21 | 346
2 Nov 2011 / #45
Is this another story added to the Polish list of national-pride or internet arguments and trolling/
Along with the 5% RAF Polish Squadron
And Polish sausages taste soooo good
????????
I salute the pilot. However obviously is he was British or American, the plane would be a ball of spoke and fire
Along with the 5% RAF Polish Squadron
And Polish sausages taste soooo good
????????
I salute the pilot. However obviously is he was British or American, the plane would be a ball of spoke and fire
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 438
2 Nov 2011 / #46
It shows you know nothing about the real cause of that failure
I think I'll stick with skysoulmate's explanation for now. Don't you think that a pilot knows more about this than a lawyer/doctor/whatever you are today?
However obviously is he was British or American, the plane would be a ball of spoke and fire
Rubbish.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509163/I-feared-Heathrow-crash-landing-end-catastrophe-says-hero-pilot-Coward.html
Here is an excerpt of TVN 24 article :
He made a strategic decision
"The decision was correct"
The decision made by Cpt. Tadeusz Wrona was correct , praises the editor and publisher of the magazine "REPORT - military, technology, defense," Wojciech Luczak.
- The decision was entirely correct and in accordance with safety procedures - assessed. He said, the pressure drop in the hydraulic system does not mean having to return to the airport. He stressed that the actions of the crew was "absolutely procedural." - The whole of this event shows the scale of the experience of air crew - concluded Luczak.
Chorzewski, in turn, pointed out that the plane after take-off - even though a fault occurred - but it was full of fuel and it would have to fly in circles over the territory of the United States for many hours (until fuel was combusted ) .
"He deserves the highest honor"
I think this is an excellent example of proper action in emergency situations. And this crisis of the whole system, but particularly in the first place it should be stressed mastery of the Cpt. Tadeusz Wrona, who fully showed a hundred percent mastery of the pilot - said Head of the National Security Bureau, General Stanislaw Koziej.
- I spoke with the captain directly, at the airport. I had the opportunity to hear his impressions - he 's incredibly quiet man. You must have iron nerves and a really good professional development, so that after a traumatic experience - after an hour of flying, knowing that he would have a moment to land without landing gear - so powerful precisely seat a plane - with the knowledge that at the back, behind his back is over 200 passengers - said Gen. Koziej . - This man deserves the highest honor, the president certainly will want to distinguish him for this act - he added.
- The captain was full of praise for all his crew, both for the co-pilot and flight attendants - the whole crew
More about the failure of the plane :
Today the expert from Boeing corp is coming to Warsaw to examine the failed system of 767 Boeing .
He made a strategic decision
"The decision was correct"
The decision made by Cpt. Tadeusz Wrona was correct , praises the editor and publisher of the magazine "REPORT - military, technology, defense," Wojciech Luczak.
- The decision was entirely correct and in accordance with safety procedures - assessed. He said, the pressure drop in the hydraulic system does not mean having to return to the airport. He stressed that the actions of the crew was "absolutely procedural." - The whole of this event shows the scale of the experience of air crew - concluded Luczak.
Chorzewski, in turn, pointed out that the plane after take-off - even though a fault occurred - but it was full of fuel and it would have to fly in circles over the territory of the United States for many hours (until fuel was combusted ) .
"He deserves the highest honor"
I think this is an excellent example of proper action in emergency situations. And this crisis of the whole system, but particularly in the first place it should be stressed mastery of the Cpt. Tadeusz Wrona, who fully showed a hundred percent mastery of the pilot - said Head of the National Security Bureau, General Stanislaw Koziej.
- I spoke with the captain directly, at the airport. I had the opportunity to hear his impressions - he 's incredibly quiet man. You must have iron nerves and a really good professional development, so that after a traumatic experience - after an hour of flying, knowing that he would have a moment to land without landing gear - so powerful precisely seat a plane - with the knowledge that at the back, behind his back is over 200 passengers - said Gen. Koziej . - This man deserves the highest honor, the president certainly will want to distinguish him for this act - he added.
- The captain was full of praise for all his crew, both for the co-pilot and flight attendants - the whole crew
More about the failure of the plane :
Today the expert from Boeing corp is coming to Warsaw to examine the failed system of 767 Boeing .
LOT spokesman Leszek Chorzewski said that despite of the detection in about 30 minutes after take off from Newark (USA) faults in the aircraft, the captain made an autonomous and "strategic" decision to continue flight.
As previously reported LOT president Marcin Pirog said that already about 30 minutes after takeoff from Newark (USA) Polish crew of the aircraft indicated that the central hydraulic system malfunction.
The machine had still another system, which can eject the chassis, electrical. - The captain could not be 100 percent sure of the fault - says Chorzewski. - He wanted to verify that the electrical system works. I wanted to do it in Poland . It was a strategic decision of the master, as it turned out, very correct - notes.
Over Warsaw, it turned out that the chassis could not leave, even though the so-called flaps of the chassis were ejected .So it revealed that , the electrical system didn`t work either . Then the decision was taken to an emergency landing.
Boeing over the capital was secured by two Polish military F-16 fighters. Before there was an emergency landing, the flying airplane burnt excess fuel and airport services made preparations to accept the machine. The runway was covered with a special foam. They called for the fire brigades and ambulances.
As previously reported LOT president Marcin Pirog said that already about 30 minutes after takeoff from Newark (USA) Polish crew of the aircraft indicated that the central hydraulic system malfunction.
The machine had still another system, which can eject the chassis, electrical. - The captain could not be 100 percent sure of the fault - says Chorzewski. - He wanted to verify that the electrical system works. I wanted to do it in Poland . It was a strategic decision of the master, as it turned out, very correct - notes.
Over Warsaw, it turned out that the chassis could not leave, even though the so-called flaps of the chassis were ejected .So it revealed that , the electrical system didn`t work either . Then the decision was taken to an emergency landing.
Boeing over the capital was secured by two Polish military F-16 fighters. Before there was an emergency landing, the flying airplane burnt excess fuel and airport services made preparations to accept the machine. The runway was covered with a special foam. They called for the fire brigades and ambulances.
Jeezus...they dont have manual pump over rides anymore!!!!! ( see 1986's Memphis Belle ;) )
Like Skysoulmate,all I can say is well done crew, absolutly perfect landing,been in rougher ones with all wheels down.
Just another reason for me to say,IMHO LOT Pilots are some of ,if not THE best Airline Pilots in the world ! :)
Lets hope the Pilots dont now get shafted and find themselves esentially unemployable down to their insurence having just shot up......yes,thats right folks, do something heroic like that and save hundreds of lives doesnt count for a hill of beans to the insurers,as far as they are concerned "you" have a flawed safety record :(
Like Skysoulmate,all I can say is well done crew, absolutly perfect landing,been in rougher ones with all wheels down.
Just another reason for me to say,IMHO LOT Pilots are some of ,if not THE best Airline Pilots in the world ! :)
Lets hope the Pilots dont now get shafted and find themselves esentially unemployable down to their insurence having just shot up......yes,thats right folks, do something heroic like that and save hundreds of lives doesnt count for a hill of beans to the insurers,as far as they are concerned "you" have a flawed safety record :(
Just my hint :
there are thousands of pilots around the world , but no one formulates any opinion about the case just Skysoulmate .
No professional would comment about the cause of a plane failure without examining the plane . Every time there is a special commission formed to investigate plane accident according to procedures .
And because I am a lawyer I would never analyze any legal case if I was not presented with evidences .
So ,at this moment , skysoulmate should praise the crew as most posters did , and wait for the report to come out instead of pinpointing maintenance crew `s failure . He was saying the same BS after the Smoleńsk crash that the cause was on the pilot`s side . While the Polish report pointed out many circumstances , moreover on the meeting with victim`s families it was clearly said that there was no pilot`s fault .
So , Skysoulmate , will you just shut up and wait patiently for the report, pls.
there are thousands of pilots around the world , but no one formulates any opinion about the case just Skysoulmate .
No professional would comment about the cause of a plane failure without examining the plane . Every time there is a special commission formed to investigate plane accident according to procedures .
And because I am a lawyer I would never analyze any legal case if I was not presented with evidences .
So ,at this moment , skysoulmate should praise the crew as most posters did , and wait for the report to come out instead of pinpointing maintenance crew `s failure . He was saying the same BS after the Smoleńsk crash that the cause was on the pilot`s side . While the Polish report pointed out many circumstances , moreover on the meeting with victim`s families it was clearly said that there was no pilot`s fault .
So , Skysoulmate , will you just shut up and wait patiently for the report, pls.
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 438
2 Nov 2011 / #50
And because I am a lawyer I would never analyze any legal case if I was not presented with evidences .
I would still rather accept the opinion of a pilot. Would you ask a pilot for their opinion of what disease a particular person may have died from? No, you would ask a doctor.
Let's face it, the only reason a lawyer would be interested in a plane crash is to see how much money they can make out of compensation cases!
You see , the first thing the doctor would do is to examine the patient if he is alive , if he is dead then the pathologist is the one who examines the body and issues the autopsy .
Giving the opinion over the internet is life threatening decision.
Your biased opinion is just a proof that you are a person who has got some inferiority problem .
Giving the opinion over the internet is life threatening decision.
Let's face it, the only reason a lawyer would be interested in a plane crash is to see how much money they can make out of compensation cases!
Your biased opinion is just a proof that you are a person who has got some inferiority problem .
You see , the first thing the doctor would do is to examine the patient if he is alive
nope,the first thing a Dr would do is call on his years of experience then review the patients health history.....
Moania, brush up on your English comprehension old duck.....skysoulmate did nothing but praise the flight crew ffs......
Exactly how many hours flying time have you moania? and I dont mean as a passenger.....of course, for all we really know skysoulmate might be a WALT who sits at home flying Microsoft flight sims all day, but he knows his stuff on the subject where you clearly do not.
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 438
2 Nov 2011 / #53
Your biased opinion is just a proof that you are a person who has got some inferiority problem .
I'm sick of lawyers, with very good reason. If that makes me have an "inferiority problem", then fine!
nope,the first thing a Dr would do is call on his years of experience then review the patients health history.....
I can't be the only one who's getting fed up with all these name changes as well. You would think she would make it a bit less obvious, but no :)
nope,the first thing a Dr would do is call on his years of experience then review the patients health history.....
Examining of a patient consist of many things which I didn`t mention , just because it is not the thread`s subject .
And if you mention one more time Moania I will ask for your suspention .
It is so stupid of you that every time you respond to my posts you refer to me as Moania and pull out byplays.
old duck.....skysoulmate did nothing but praise the flight crew ffs......
The old duck tried to speculate on something he has no clue , even though he is a pilot . Why ? because he is not an engineer , he knows how to fly a plane , but he has got no idea about the plane construction , besides some general information the pilot should have .
No one in Poland formalates any conclusive opinions . TVN 24 invites many experts to the studio and no one speculates on anything .
So far they say that there was a failure of two systems . What is interesting is the fact that it happens rarely that the emergency system also failed .
I will choose LOT as my primary air carrier for my next flights , for its superb pilots and other crew members .
Really? The pilot did well in this situation, but there have been serious questions raised about the safety of LOT including a very nasty situation where the skies around Heathrow had to be cleared and aircraft grounded (all at huge cost) because a LOT pilot had a panic attack while in the cockpit. It turned out that he didn't even speak any English, the language of the air traffic control. The ensuing report pointed out that many of the better pilots at LOT had moved to other airlines that pay more and that no more than a dozen LOT pilots were safe to fly internationally because of their lack of language skills. The incident has been discussed here already.
So to talk about 'superb pilots' is something of a exaggeration.
Your biased opinion is just a proof that you are a person who has got some inferiority problem
That's not any sort of proof at all.
Lawyer in court, "Jurors, This Judge claims that laws should be upheld. She has a biased opinion as it is her job to uphold law and so I have proved with my infallible logic she has an inferiority problem". Yeah, that's right, it my scenario the judge is a woman and the lawyer addressing the jury is a fool.
You would think she would make it a bit less obvious, but no :)
Oh boy , I did it for other reasons . If it was just to hide me identity from PF posters I wouldnt post my pictures , Sherlock .
BTW it has been just said that the maintenance was performed by the american staff in Newark . So , blaming Polish stuff is a wrong path from now on. The standard procedure requires the technical check up every 4 years . In this plane it was done in March 2011 .
delphiandomine 86 | 17823
2 Nov 2011 / #58
He was saying the same BS after the Smoleńsk crash that the cause was on the pilot`s side .
Yawn, Smolensk was pilot error, get over it already.
BTW it has been just said that the maintenance was performed by the american staff in Newark . So , blaming Polish stuff is a wrong path from now on.
That is somewhat unlikely. LOT prefers to take care of routine maintenance in-house, which is entirely understandable given their financial state.
Your statement means you have no idea about standard procedures in aviation .