Dumbing-down in Polish schools and the Matura

That's true so I won't sidetrack.

My wife says the new Matura is a piece of cake. She said she could pass it with her finger.....as the Polish expression goes (it's very easy). It might raise morale if it's easier but the hard work must be maintained as university brings its own complications.

The basic level:

Students are asked to describe a picture (who, what doing and where are a must), then are asked two questions to it.

E.g.,



In the picture I can see two people spending some time together. They are sitting on a wooden bench at a table. It may be in a forest or in a garden. They are playing a game of chess. The old man is going to make the next move, and he appears to be concentrated on the game, too. They could be a grandson and a grandfather. The boy is wearing shorts and the man is wearing a T-shirt so it's probably summer. I guess they may be on holiday together and they seem to be having a good time.

Typical questions:
1. Why is the boy holding his hand against his forehead? or Do you think they are enjoying themselves?
2. How do you usually spend your free time? Why? or Do you think that young people should learn to play chess? Why? Why not?

On the other side of the exam paper students can find 3 types of dialogues in Polish and are expected to perform in English:
A. Acquiring and giving information
B. Reporting past events
C. Negotiations.

E.g.,
A: Rozmawiasz z Anglikiem o szkołach.
· Dowiedz się jakich języków obcych uczą się uczniowie szkół angielskich. What languages do British students learn at school?
· Zapytaj o egzaminy które zdają uczniowie szkoły średniej. What exams do British students take in high-school?
· Poinformuj jakie języki obce są nauczane w polskich szkołach. In Poland students learn/study English, German, French and Russian.

B: Podczas pobytu na wsi znalazłeś psa. Rozmawiasz o tym zdarzeniu ze znajomym z Anglii. Opowiedz o :
· Okolicznościach znalezienia psa. I found a dog on the road next to my house while I was coming home from school.
· Pomocy jakiej udzieliłeś zwierzęciu. I took the dog home and gave him food and water.
· Próbie odnalezienia właściciela psa. I made a poster with information about the dog and I put the poster on a tree.

C: W Londynie wybierasz się z Anglikiem do kina. On chce jechać taksówką.
· Zaproponuj inny środek transportu i uzasadnij. It would be a good idea to take a bus because it is much cheaper.
· Nie zgódź się z argumentami znajomego i uzasadnij. I don't think going by taxi is faster because there is heavy traffic in the city and taxis drive slowly.

· Zaproponuj inne rozwiązanie. The cinema isn't far. Let's walk (go on foot).

Is high school a proper name for British secondary schools?

Which level - basic or advanced and what subject ?

Not yet. I took so many photos last year that I have had enough for a longer time.

After a long break, matura exam in Maths:
English exam: envelopes with exam sheets and paperwork
A student scored 14 out od 20.


Officially, Brits have secondary schools, but sometimes they call them High School. :):):)

comradesandcolleagues.com/School.page/Details/153602?name=Cardinal_Griffin_Catholic_High_School

I thought at first that you confiscate the calculators for the math exam, hence the pile of them.
But then I see the guy sitting the exam with the calculator, is he the one who bought your BMW for you? :)


Depending on the amount of drugs in them.

The exam is f..king difficult, :):):) they have to use calculators. And those red booklets contain Maths formulas.


I don`t like BMWs. It is a car for crazy youth. I am a serious teacher.

it looks easy, but i know that for some it can be both stressful and difficult.

i do feel that the oral exam should demand more from the student though.

It has been a while since I sat a math test but if you have a calculator and the formulas, what else is there?
Am I missing something?


There is a dirty joke in there just waiting to come out :)

Exactly. That is why the Central Exam Board has introduced changes into next year`s exam. Simply speaking, it will be more difficult.

Monia, my wife said she could pass any part. It's the Polish confidence she has. It comes from being forthright.

I asked students about those booklets and they are not complete. It is one catch. Another, you DO show some general knowledge of Maths when you know which formula you should use in particular exercises. I wouldn`t be able to do it.

You could give me access to books, calculators, whatever. I wouldn't be able to do anything. I only passed my matura examination because for several years the maths exam was not compulsory ;-)

The only parts of maths I ever understood were trigonometry and theory of probability (all forgotten by now anyway). Those were the days...

That's a technicality, and I think I misunderstood your message.
I can certainly see how non-anonymous work submitted for marking can be marked incorrectly (too poorly or too well). Oral exams (yes, they can be hell) don't even provide anonymity. What's worse, often the professor's technique during an oral exam consisted of, for the lack of a better expression, pitting students against one another.

In my experience as both a student and a teacher, I found that the actual teaching process and method far outweigh the examination part. Given the correct method, the exam is pretty much a walk in the park for both, as only "the fittest" even reach that stage.

Reference: essaynews.com

Oral from English is really easy to pass and in my opinion doesn't really check your skills. In my group 6/7 pupils got 20 points (100%).
Oral from Polish is just a waste of time. It's really easy to abuse (a lot of people buy ready presentation and just memorized it).

By the way I think that students that choose advance level shoudn't have to take a basic one.

If you'd like to check the formula for each task you won't have enough time to finish all tasks. That's first thing. Second thing is that in case of maths it won't help you too much because the tasks require more thinking than just simple use of formula.

Yes. One oral exam starting next year, with clear grading: you get 30 points, you are advanced. You get 10, you are basic.

I don't think universities are keen to lower their standards - so if you lower the level of Matura you end up with what? - I passed my Matura back in 1992 - the math was the scare of many - not mine - but I was ambitious and took English for Matura instead of the maths - but back to the point - I managed to pass the entry test to IT sciences in a uni - and man even with the higher level of mathematical education and matura back then the univesity courses were just another planet to me - every single exam was several times more difficult than a bloody matura - I have to admit it was too much for me - I haven't finished the IT study

Very accurate.


Yes.


No. I failed those 4 students because they knew nothing. 2 of them got 0 points, one got 1 point, another 2 points, out of 20. Somehow, this basic level does check your skills. :):):)


What about the advanced level?


Students are asked to:
1. Describe the provided material which consists of 2-3 colour pictures, 1-2 headlines, a pie/bar chart, a quote/proverb. The material concerns one specific problem, e.g., pollution and environment, jobs and career, food and eating habits, housing, urban versus country, mobile phones etc. Then the student is expected to answer 4 questions refering to the material:

E.g.,
1. Why do you think text messaging is so popular with young people today?
2. Can text messaging become an addiction?

1. Do you think that parents are prepared to talk with their children about addictions?
2. Do you think that drug addicts should be punished?

1. How do you understand the slogan -Recycled Wood Works Wonders?
2. Is it easy to recycle in Poland?

etc etc

Next, the student is expected to give a 2 minute speech. The topics are random:

Extreme sports - fascination with risk and challenge or a passing fashion?

Teaching young people how to earn their own money can help them grow up to be responsible adults. To what extent do you agree with this statement?

Women have long fought for the right to be employed on equal terms with men. What have they gained and what have they lost?

Are immigrants and ethnic minorities a potential source of problems or a way to enrich they country`s culture?

etc etc.

After delivering the speech, there is a short discussion during which the student has to explain/elaborate on sth and justify his/her opinion.

A crude example of this type of exam is on the second page of the sheet:
fdslive.oup.com/www.oup.com/pdf/elt/catalogue/9780194309974-a.pdf

Based on this series, the Matura needs to be dumbed down. I wanted to create a new thread based on this but I forgot so here it is.

youtube.com/watch?v=nacDRRIqd1U
One of many interesting parts documenting the recollection of Poles regarding English acquired. Marek Konrad's Dzień Świra also has an excellent learning tool.

Please feel free to watch the MaturatoBzdura series as it really gives insights into how some have learned or not as the case may be.

I wonder how it would look in the UK reality , if random people were being asked about a french grammar
( mostly taken as a second language in the UK I think ).

Do you think English language is a big issue for polish students entering higher education ? It matters only for those who choose linguistics

We all know that most British people don't give a hang for any language other than English. I like to be the exception to the rule.

youtube.com/watch?v=DqVpIhnIFkE
here's another. There are literally hours of this MaturatoBzdura footage.

You'd be surprised, Monia. English has major stock amongst the educated here.

Hardly taken. More like forced but with no one paying much attention. It's a dud language and not anything that the majority of job descriptions would ask for. Actually i have yet to see any.


And any business/economical/medical ect ect ect.

If they plan to go abroad , in such case yes, it matters , otherwise no ! We use in business and medical field guess what language , yes!!!!! right - polish ! I am educated one and don`t use in my work English language . I assure you that business people in Poland can speak English .

That guy was asking young people at random , so don`t make any assumption about that "super accurate " survey

Kinda a problem with that considering every Polish economy and business student has to study texts in English and also pass various English exams throughout their studies. Might not have been the case 20 odd years ago but certainly nowadays yes.


When did you study Polish law? I can assure you that English is a basic requirement of the course/s as far as my friends/students who study it tell me.

Plus almost every job in Poland which pays any decent amount of salary requires the applicant to at least be able to speak English at a high level. Even counter assistants in supermarkets are required to have an understanding of English.

What are you talking about ? I was talking about using it at my work not studying , lol . Why are you taking about students ? All students now and then had to study English at the Univ level . Where would I learn it anyway if not at school , in the toilet? Sorry for such a sarcasm , but .....

Some students would probably do better sitting in a toilet and reading books. Some of these students are awful. The questions are simple and in their own language yet they come up short.

How do you know that all of them plan to become bankers, lawyers or businessmen , lol . Maybe they will end up in a factory or become waiters ( for them basic 12 grade level is enough) .

I wasn't thinking about it, Monia. It was just an observation. Statistics are on your side, though.

in 2011, 343,000 students were taking the Matura exam... over 84,000 did not pass it... it's almost 1/4 of all students... 7% of the students cannot repeat the exam...

that's really really bad.