Olga, if you want to be taken seriously you need to
1. source your allegations (provide links or give info on how the interested can find the hard copy) when you don't do that it creates the impression that you're making things up in your search for answers
2. think things through, a bomb on board means it was planted in Poland, do you really want to go down that particular road?
3. provide a narrative, who (singular or plural) was the target? and how were things planned on such short notice? who benefits? who loses? In those terms you could almost construct a narrative that PiS was responsible as they stand to gain the most in the short term (their poll numbers have increased recently and they have a better chance of getting Jarosław into office via sympathy vote than they did of getting Lech re-elected.
I've been pretty unimpressed with the evidence so far put forth. So far there seems to be exactly the kind of confusion and different stories one would expect at this stage (everybody involved and all witnesses saying the same thing would be far more suspicious).
I do think you're sincere in your desire for answers, but on the other hand, it seems you've already made up your mind (damned russkies!) and are just looking for confirmation rather than trying to understand the event on its own terms.
I'm open minded about the idea that foul play was involved (given compelling evidence) but I'm also open minded about it being a simple tragic accident. I think you're in denial that the latter possibility is a possibility.
"I had been here 15 minutes when I saw the plane flying low, and I saw something serious was going on. It was cutting, cutting trees. Then over there, there was a big noise. Boom! Like a bomb."
Doh!!!
The wings hit the trees, The wings store the fuel, what a surprise there was an explosion.
Where's their camera showing the plane and weather
The first witness interview I saw on Russian TV (Rossiaya 24) was with Polish journalist with camera in hands - he run from a meeting point in the airport to the crash site immediately after the catastrophe. I don't know his name but he wasn't alone - there were other Polish witnesses.
Ask them about weather conditions - it should be in Polish sources. For myself it is not a question - a lot of witnesses in Smolensk confirmed that there was a heavy fog at this time. Nothing to discuss.
Yes, remember, a plane loaded with fuel (by all accounts, it had enough fuel to get back to Warsaw and divert if required, along with having enough fuel to divert from Smolensk too) effectively is a flying bomb. 9/11 proved that beyond all doubt, and the same tactic was used with great success by the Japanese.
I'm still waiting for Olga's explanation as to why the TAWS didn't work, or indeed, her highly interesting account for why the NDB didn't guide the plane onto the runway.
No, thinking of worldwide conspiracies is an act of intelligence. And your last remark I regard as an insult. Tiens, Joe, after so many conspiracies with -in your case- always the Jews behind it, you cannot be that surprised that ppl start reacting like that. You would do the same if I were to come with all kinds of nonsense theories to explain any mishap that happens to the world, and in which it's always the Polish Americans that are the evil geniuses behid it.
deliberate misinformation
How do you know if it's misinformation? And if it is, how do you know that it's deliberate? You perhaps know yourself that in the immediate aftermath of a big event like this, reporting is dazzled and reports are confusing. It always takes some time for the sediments to settle down and the water to clear. It's only then that one gets correct information.
>^..^<
M-G (thinks Joe should spend more energy in trying to make beautiful music - would be a lot more useful than this nonsense)
Well, we know that people were on the ground there and, in all likelihood, that shots were fired. A bomb? You know, it's possible but how and from where? You can rule out the idea that it was pre-planted as you don't know where the plane was going to crash. It wasn't a sudden wipeout either according to the sources. The pilot tried in vain for some time to salvage the situation but to no avail. The last moments were described as 'distressing' (wow, no sh*t Sherlock). I don't think a bomb was involved based on what we have seen.
Many of the bodies are so badly mangled they will require DNA matching.
Because the plane hit the ground being upside down.
Reuters interviewed a man who saw the plane crash that killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military and civilian leaders. The man stated,"I had been here 15 minutes when I saw the plane flying low, and I saw something serious was going on. It was cutting, cutting trees. Then over there, there was a big noise. Boom! Like a bomb."
Whatever happens there always can be found somebody who heard a bomb or some like that. (There was a Russian in some thread who posted here he'd seen UFO flying away from that place. :) )
"A bomb? You know, it's possible but how and from where? You can rule out the idea that it was pre-planted as you don't know where the plane was going to crash"
You set a bomb to explode at high altitude so you guarantee a complete kill and maximise the explosive power in a pressurised vessel.
You don't set it to explode within 30 seconds of landing becuase the plane is virtually certain to survive it as as the passenger, especially if the plane arrives 2 minute early.
this is for Joe and its a bit off topic but i had to type it out so your welcome
The Benex Scandal In 1996 large amounts of money were transferred from two Russian banks to accounts at the Bank of New York that had been opened in the name of Benex Worldwide. From there it was distributed through various shell company accounts in Europe. Two years later, in 1998, British authorities, who were investigating Russian Mafiya activities, informed the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of irregularities involved in the transfers of International Monetary Fund (IMF) dollars via the Bank of New York to the Russian capital, Moscow. The British investigators suspected collusion between a Russian company, YBM Magnex, believed to be a front for the alleged Russian Mafiya boss Semyon Mogilevich, and Benex in New York.
The owner of Benex, Peter Berlin, was married to a vice-president of the Bank of New York, Lucy Edwards. In late 1998, Berlin was arrested. It was reported that $4.2 billion had moved from Russia in more than 10,000 transactions between October 1998 and March 1999, many through Benex accounts at the Bank of New York. Money routed back to Europe passed through a British shell company and then on to Italy or France.
A two-year long police operation culminated in the arrest in June 2002 of more than 50 people. Two of these, Igor Berezovski and his twin Oleg, ran 10 shell companies from a one-roomed office in Paris that drew the authorities attention to them. Money transferred through Berezovski's labyrinth of financial accounts eventually made its way back to companies reportedly linked with the Ismolskaya and Soltsnevo criminal syndicates in Moscow.
The Italian authorities believe that as much as $9 billion of Russia Mafiya money was laundered between 1996 and 2002, the biggest international laundering operation ever uncovered.
Somebody tripped over carrying a large knife and accidentally stabbed the guy...later they went to visit him in hospital to say they were sorry , and once again tripped over , this time killing him with the knife...
It could happen to anyone...its not so weird...??
The important question for me is....did they get Olga yet....?????
Really ignorant question. Definitely NO - since a bomb damage to a plane is really the easiest thing to reveal for experts. It would be impossible to cover, unless the plane is lost somewhere over the Atlantic (remember Lockerbie case?).
As of yesterday (April 20th), Poland still has not received the plane's black boxes from Russia:
April 21--The chairman of the Katyn Foundation has called on the Polish government to appeal for an international investigation:
On a side(?) note:
- Russia, Poland agree amendments to intergovernmental gas agreement, signed by Putin on April 13th: kyivpost/news/russia/detail/64462/
- A planned battery of U.S. Patriot missiles that has irritated Russia will now arrive in Poland in late May: reuters/article/latestCrisis/idUSLDE63K25Y
Which has been postponed from the original schedule of "within weeks." kyivpost/news/world/detail/64378/
As of yesterday (April 20th), Poland still has not received the plane's black boxes from Russia:
Read the comments : thenews.pl is a dreadful news source. They misreport almost everything - they're no better than a typical tabloid. Poland asking for access will almost certainly be granted - they're not 'pressing' Russia at all. Russia, understandably, wants to find out what happened - the crash happened on their territory after all!
You still haven't explained your theory about how the NDB and TAWS systems were tampered with. Indeed - you still haven't explained the crew's actions.
You still haven't explained your theory about how the NDB and TAWS systems were tampered with. Indeed - you still haven't explained the crew's actions.
YOU still haven't explained how a plane like the Tup (by all accounts, 'nie gniotsa, nie łamiotsa'), travelling just meters off the ground at approx. 200 km/h would end up 'rozpierdolony w mak,' along with its passengers.
Losing your wing against a tree would tend to cause a plane to overturn. Perhaps you might want to look at how easy it is for a plane to overturn - the Spanair crash could tell you more.
What was the plane doing so low in the first place? Bear in mind that the Polish pilots clearly refused to divert after being told to do so - are you suggesting that the pilots intentionally went too low as to ensure the death of everyone on board?
Come on Olga, let's hear more about these technical conspiracy theories. Let's focus on the equipment that you believe to have been malfunctioning.
YOU still haven't explained how a plane like the Tup (by all accounts, 'nie gniotsa, nie łamiotsa'), travelling just meters off the ground at approx. 200 km/h would end up 'rozpierdolony w mak,' along with its passengers.
Looking at wreck photos, they look quite normal for a jet passenger plane trying to land in a forest. Soviet aircraft had no thicker tin sheets, than others. I don't see it is in "drobny mak"
Anyway, bombing the plane would be as naive idea and easy to reveal, as shooting at survivors in a face of videotaping witnesses, without silencers in addition ;-)
Anyway, bombing the plane would be as naive idea and easy to reveal, as shooting at survivors in a face of videotaping witnesses, without silencers in addition ;-)
I'm thinking that guy just standing around having a smoke with the blue shirt in the video might be FSB. Your thoughts?
Of course - it "landed" in an airbase, wouldn't you expect there to be military on the scene in a mixed military-civilian airport? It's nothing special - Poznan Lawica only became purely civilian last December, for instance.
