Anybody watch Adam Michnik on Lis this evening?

Except they didn't prove it. They were offered the chance to go up in front of the military commission investigating the accident at Smolensk, and not one could provide any reasonable theory. Those experts included people who were "experts" because they "made paper planes" and "watched the wings when flying".


Exactly. Gazeta Wyborcza et al aren't going to waste their time on people who claim to be experts because they made paper planes as a child.

Gazeta Wyborcza did report the facts - not one of those "experts" (by the way, none of them were actually experts in relevant fields) could produce a single credible theory. Haven't you read about the one who claimed to be an expert because parowki explode the same way?


Because WP, it's very obvious that they aren't experts in the actual matter. Why couldn't anyone of them give a single reasonable theory to the military commission?


So why don't they go to the military commission with their evidence?

Remember, one of your experts even admitted to making nonsense up just for the TV cameras.

Hold on there delph. I think you're going to have to give me a few sources. Perhaps I have not kept up with as much mainstream media as you, but I never heard of any guy that admitted to making stuff up just to get TV time [unless you are just referring to some random guy on the street, claiming to be knowledgeable about planes].

As for me, I'm referring to experts like

Professor Chris Cieszewski, who discovered that the birch was broken 5 days before the plane supposedly crashed in to it. Maciej Lasek said the satellite photos were impossible to see properly, due to their poor quality, yet later said, that the broken tree part that Cieszewski saw, was just rubbish lying around. So could he see them or couldn't he see them? Lasek's area of work is in the mechanisms of flight, while Cieszewski has already done much work involving analyzing satellite photos of, yep, trees! He has done research at the Warnell school of Forestry and Natural Resources. Who is Lasek [or the mainstream media] to rubbish his claims about satellite images?

Another expert invovled, this one, in analyzing the geospace in damp terrain, Dr Deepak Mishra, has received funds from NASA for his research [even receiving up to $1 million for one of his research projects].

Daniel Markewitz is also involved with researching the thickness of the wood in trees and what effects that has in various situations. He has also received a multitude of financial grants for his research from high rated institutions.

You can also look up some names as Joseph Dahlen and Mike Strub [also involved in researching his disaster]. They were involved in analyzing pieces of the birch as well. These pieces were preserved and sent off to one of the 2 best laboratories in the world [this one was in Canada]. The research has shown that this particular tree, despite being weaker than other trees generally, was actually weaker than most birch trees as well [yet it supposedly broke the wing of a plane, despite, if you remember, being on 5th April that year].

For those still unsure of if this was murder or just an accident, Professor Cieszewski also found, in his satellite research, that in the wooded area that the crash took place in, no high quality satellite photos were taken for over 5 years, until just before the time of the crash, almost as if someone had demanded them [Putin?], to see what the area looks like, if they were to prepare some way of crashing this plane and making it look like an accident [that is just my view]. Not only this, but when comparing satellite photos of 11th April and 12th April, the left Ballast seems to have moved 50m, when nothing was supposed to be touched. Again, how very odd. Possibly to make it fit their false explanation better. Certainly suspicious isn't it? Hey I'm sure that those who don't like this topic will think of ways to mock this research or explain how it is of no relevance.

Macierewicz got various experts in many different fields to analyze different things, but they were all related in some way to this crash. Tree trunk experts might sound funny, but if one of these experts says that there is no way this birch can break the wing of a plane, while another says it was already broken before the crash, then surely if the 'official' report is saying the birch broke the win of the plane, then something is not right.

WP: please keep up the good work; the more noise about Smolensk, the more votes for PO and the even more remote the politician formerly known as ****boy gets even close to power.

Indeed, he's doing a splendid job of reminding people why to vote PO.


Oh dear WP, you really ought to keep up with Polish news if you want to comment on it.

We can start with this : newpolandexpress.pl/polish_news_story-5905-smolensk_te stimony_questioned.php
And follow up with this : newpolandexpress.pl/polish_news_story-6003-macierwicz_expert_resigns_over_gaff_.php


I'm surprised you missed it, given that the normal media had a field day with the news. Perhaps you should question why your media (Gazeta Polska et al) didn't mention it?


The thing you're missing is that not a single one of those "experts" presented any credible evidence to the Military commission investigating the crash. Why?

Could it be that their 'evidence' doesn't actually stand up to scrutiny?

dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/2250/Explosive-Update-The-Smolensk-Crash.aspx

This is a good summary of the pro coup evidence at smolensk [/url] I would encourage everyone to read it with an open mind and read the detailed reports in the links before rushing to judgement

- Prof Binienda models show that the wing would have cut through the birch like a knife and the wind damage happened from another cause. No response from official commision except to admit they did not do any simulations like this.

- Prof Nowaczyk analaysed the data avaible from the FMS and claims that there were 2 violent jolts, and these took place when the plane was 226 feet past the birch tree. NO response from official commision

The statement of Engineer Berczynski about the torn rivets has not recieved much notice and def


NO response from official commision

- The Mysterious suicides esp Remingus Mus the flight navigator who specifically stated that he heard the atc controlers instruct the tu-154 to descent to 50m and not 100m.

-Two months before the crash Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs unexpectedly reappointed a retired diplomat Mr. Tomasz Turowski and tasked him with organizing the Polish delegation visit to Russia. Turowski was at the landing field of the Smolensk airport during the crash. In 2011 Polish press revealed that Turowski had been one of the most dangerous "illegal" spies in communist Poland (i.e. he was working undercover in Rome during the time of a failed assassination against Pope John Paul II)

Why didn't he present this evidence to the Military commission investigating? Could it be that he is actually not an expert on aerodynamics at all? Ah, that's right - he's not actually an expert on anything other than aviation materials.

I'm sorry, but those of us who understand academia know that a professor in materials used on the surface of aeroplanes has no business discussing aerodynamics.


Why wasn't this data provided to the Military Commission if there were indeed two jolts?


Nor should it - if there is any proof at all, he should have stood up in front of the Military Commission and presented the evidence.


You do realise that was facing his military career ending in utter disgrace due to the events of the Yak-40?


Source?

The problem with everything that you and others state is that none of the evidence has been credibly peer reviewed, nor has it been presented to a public prosecutor or the Military Commission investigating the crash.

Keep going, however - us PO supporters love to point at foreigners interfering with Polish affairs as a reason why PiS stands for treason.

@delpha


This plane as if tapped into the mud , crashed over them. Hence, it was not perhaps such a bang. Russians crash site surrounded with yellow tape , which came from behind the employee of the Federal Security Service of the Russian FSO. He said that three people gave " żyzniennyje reflections " or unconditional reflexes life example . Agonal convulsions . But that does not mean that someone survived - said in an interview with Polish Tomasz Turowski Virtual , " an illegal " intelligence PRL and diplomat , who on 10 April 2010 had to greet President Lech Kaczynski at the airport in Smolensk. The conversation took place in conjunction with the release of the book - the interview - river " Mole in the Vatican. Turowski truth ."

Keep going, however - us PO supporters love to point at foreigners interfering with Polish affairs as a reason why PiS stands for treason.[/quote]

I neither support PO or PIS, if anything i would have voted for ruch palikota. However i do believe that absolute power corrupts absolutely and the murders and thiefs who do business as 'the state' would have no qualms in performing acts that the majority of people would find horrible.

That doesn't show us how he was "one of the most dangerous spies" for Poland.

That doesn't show us how he was "one of the most dangerous spies" for Poland.


He was second in command of a dept at the Internal Security Agency. Had close ties to moscow. Suddenly two months before the crash he gets hired to oversee the pm and presidents visit to smolensk. suss.

Re my post now in random, how do you explain the missing black box and the destroyed records on the CVR?

Yes, someone who had close ties to Moscow and Russia is actually a perfect person to deal with Russians.

One thing you forget is that it's certainly far better sending an ex-very senior diplomat with significant understanding of how the Russian mentality works (and we all know that the Polish mentality is different) to deal with such a thing than sending some graduate of Russian philology who has little real world experience, especially when it comes to a President visiting who had...difficult relations with Russia.


How strange, because all of those parameters were recorded and published anyway. The presence or otherwise of one box is pretty much meaningless.


Irrelevant, because if you know anything about the crash, you know about the special Polish piece of equipment that had to be decoded in Poland.

Keep going, PO needs people like you.

delphiandomine


I guess the terms 'totalitarian state' 'communism bad' fly over your head.


So the fact that an indestructable black box is mysteriously missing is meaningless. Just Wow.


Source?


Its always fun meeting a mindless political aparchik, esp one who does not bother to learn the language of the country where he holds these strong political opinions.

When dealing with a state like Russia, you want the best you have.


They aren't indestructable. May I remind you that the plane crashed with forces of up to 100g?


Try reading the official Polish report.


It's always more fun dealing with people who snipe from thousands of miles away, especially "patriots" who do nothing for Poland.

It's quite common for them to be destroyed or damaged, unfortunately.


Indeed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unrecovered_flight_recorders

Try harder, antheads.

Did you read the notes to the wikipedia table? . Nearly all were lost in the ocean. One was too high in the mountains. There are no cases of FDR being dameged beyond repair. The FDR that is missing in the smolensk plane was in an armoured box. The WTC black boxes are the anomoly but that is anothe conspiracy in itself.

btw i don't call myself a polish patriot or blind myself to the facts by mindlessly supporting a political party, either in poland or australia but keep playing your games. I hope PO is paying you for your drooling enthusiasm.

ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/1992/A92_45_48.pdf

Old, but relevant.

No cases? Five incidents right there, as reported by the NTSB of the United States.


Except they aren't.

The thing is antheads, you believe what "journalists" write instead of doing your own research.

Tell you what though - why don't you go to a simulator and fly a plane at 230km/h in foggy conditions without an ILS.

Yes ive read the whole 80 page pprune thread on smolensk and see the pilots perspective that it was a classic case of CFIT. And its quite convincing. But pilots are quite conservative , For instance many pilots believe the official report that air france 296 was due to pilot error when its quite obvious that there was a coverup regarding the FBW/autopilot computer malfunctioning. In this case too the FDR was tampered with.

I have to say I'm completely with Antheads and Wielki Polak on this one. Delphi and Harry are showing their abject ignorance and rabid Polonophobia by not accepting the Smolensk Conspiraloon theory as fact, as any true heterosexual, Catholic person of Slavic descent would do.

The world is not as the Polophobe, crypto-Jewish traitors of PO would like to paint it. It was those very same distinguished scientists who have cleverly unravelled the Smolensk plot, despite never having been to Smolensk itself, who unmasked the great round earth hoax, perpetrated by Jewish infiltration of NASA, as the following video clearly demonstrates:

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=99E-aTIk9xM

Sadly, they aren't. There are far too many cases of CFIT that show otherwise.

What happened in Smolensk was a direct consequence of the culture within the Polish Air Force, nothing more, nothing less. Miroslawiec sadly showed this too.


Hahahaha ;)

Or perhaps some parameters were published without being recorded? Since some data is missing, that would make more sense.

What do you for Poland, other than paying taxes? I pay taxes here in the UK, but I wouldn't say I do anything for the country other than that? Is there something specific that you do for Poland? Something you don't get paid for, but you do it, because you love this country?


Oh and where do you get your information from delph? You do your own raw research? Do you go out in to the field, talk to people etc? Or do you just read the media that suits you and make your conclusions from that? Let's face it, most of the time, the information we have, is info that has been relayed to us, and we choose to believe it.

It still baffles me that some folks dislike PiS and the Kaczynski's so much, that they ignore all the suspicious goings on around the crash and just want the crash to be swept up and go away. People say that PiS play politics with the crash. I think it is PO who do that. I don't suspect PO of having anything to do with the crash, but I think they have suspicions themselves that the Russians had something to do with it. However, if it ever got out and was proven, that the Russians arranged for the plane to crash, killing, among others, the president and his wife, public opinions in the country would sway violently in the direction of PiS, even for sympathy reasons, and the fact that PiS has never trusted or liked Russia. Just imagine, if it came out that the Russians were responsible for killing our president!? Well, you know the rest. As I said, it is in PO's best interest to just move on from this awkward matter for them ASAP.

Could all posters keep to the topic of the thread please,which is not about the Smolensk accident.